This quested may have been asked before but I'm having some search issues tonight so here goes. Is light weight oil 5w20/0w20 used in any racing applications or is this oil just way to prone to oil related issues based on high HP and or high RPM failure?
5w20 or 0w20 in racing
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I think redline oil makes a racing 20wt which would act like a 5w20 viscosity i believe. Check their website but I think it will work. I know its not recommended for daily driver style situations.
High hp and high rpm failure are more likely if using too thiin an oil, but if the clearances and bearings are designed for it then it's A-ok.
What's yr application?
What's yr application?
Sometimes some VERY thin oils are used in qualifying for the main race by some, usually in specifically built 'qualifying engines' (IF the rules allow it).
Generally, you will not see too many very thin oils used in long endurance road race events, or multiple day, big mile (including the 'transit' open road parts) WRC events, regardless of how tight, or not, those engines are built clearance wise (due to; fuel dilution, shearing, very high heat from turbos, oxidation, etc.) no matter how 'stout' the thin race oils may be at this point.
Generally, you will not see too many very thin oils used in long endurance road race events, or multiple day, big mile (including the 'transit' open road parts) WRC events, regardless of how tight, or not, those engines are built clearance wise (due to; fuel dilution, shearing, very high heat from turbos, oxidation, etc.) no matter how 'stout' the thin race oils may be at this point.
I've been involved in race cars for many years. In fact, the above advice is true. We used very thin oil for qualifying and for short life engines. However, like many other "racers", we discovered that bearing life is measured in minutes with 5W oils in 700HP turbocharged road race engines.
Yes, we've been able to use 5W and 0W oils in recent years on certain engines, and HP has improved due to this. High pressure oil pumps, very careful and accurate oil temperature control and, most importantly, sufficiently light pistons/rods are the main contributors to success with light oils.
Yes, we've been able to use 5W and 0W oils in recent years on certain engines, and HP has improved due to this. High pressure oil pumps, very careful and accurate oil temperature control and, most importantly, sufficiently light pistons/rods are the main contributors to success with light oils.
I wanted to add that my street car, a 407HP, 8500 RPM, 2.2L turbocharged Honda S2000 uses 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck oil with good results. However, oil pressure is 80PSI and I watch oil temps carefully.
Those who are not as careful have connecting rod bearing failures rather rapidly with the exact same setup. The solution for them is to go with a 10W or 15W-50 viscosity oil and/or to manage temps much more carefully. Teardowns get expensive.
Those who are not as careful have connecting rod bearing failures rather rapidly with the exact same setup. The solution for them is to go with a 10W or 15W-50 viscosity oil and/or to manage temps much more carefully. Teardowns get expensive.
If you're going to race, the cold crank performance isn't that important (0W/5W/10W/15W or even 20WXX, you name it). You should look for high temperature performance and specially antiwear and antifoam additives. A lighter oil gives more power but should have a high VII to compensate at high temps, the minor viscosity. The higher the W, usually gives more shear stability and less wear. But if you want is HP and not longevity, take lighter oils, win the race and say by-by to the engine.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I've been involved in race cars for many years. In fact, the above advice is true. We used very thin oil for qualifying and for short life engines. However, like many other "racers", we discovered that bearing life is measured in minutes with 5W oils in 700HP turbocharged road race engines.
One of the IndyCar races I went to at Fontana, I noticed a lot of Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 bottles in a certain team's pit. Sounds about right considering the newer 2.2L turbo formula they use.
I would imagine the TUDOR cars use something similar, but I never get a chance to go to their garage at the LBGP.
I've been involved in race cars for many years. In fact, the above advice is true. We used very thin oil for qualifying and for short life engines. However, like many other "racers", we discovered that bearing life is measured in minutes with 5W oils in 700HP turbocharged road race engines.
One of the IndyCar races I went to at Fontana, I noticed a lot of Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 bottles in a certain team's pit. Sounds about right considering the newer 2.2L turbo formula they use.
I would imagine the TUDOR cars use something similar, but I never get a chance to go to their garage at the LBGP.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
One of the IndyCar races I went to at Fontana, I noticed a lot of Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 bottles in a certain team's pit. Sounds about right considering the newer 2.2L turbo formula they use.
I would imagine the TUDOR cars use something similar, but I never get a chance to go to their garage at the LBGP.
Great observations bdcardinal! In 2014, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40 motor oil with PurePlus Technology was used off of the shelf in all Chevrolet twin-turbocharged V-6 engines that competed in the 2014 Verizon IndyCar Series. The Pennzoil Ultra Platinum motor oil Team Penske uses in all of its Indy cars, is the same motor oil consumers can buy right off-the-shelf.
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum was also under the hood providing top-tier protection for the No. 91 SRT Viper GTS-R competing in the 2014 TUDOR United SportsCar Championship. - The Pennzoil Team
One of the IndyCar races I went to at Fontana, I noticed a lot of Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 bottles in a certain team's pit. Sounds about right considering the newer 2.2L turbo formula they use.
I would imagine the TUDOR cars use something similar, but I never get a chance to go to their garage at the LBGP.
Great observations bdcardinal! In 2014, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40 motor oil with PurePlus Technology was used off of the shelf in all Chevrolet twin-turbocharged V-6 engines that competed in the 2014 Verizon IndyCar Series. The Pennzoil Ultra Platinum motor oil Team Penske uses in all of its Indy cars, is the same motor oil consumers can buy right off-the-shelf.
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum was also under the hood providing top-tier protection for the No. 91 SRT Viper GTS-R competing in the 2014 TUDOR United SportsCar Championship. - The Pennzoil Team
Originally Posted By: GenaFishbeck
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
One of the IndyCar races I went to at Fontana, I noticed a lot of Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 bottles in a certain team's pit. Sounds about right considering the newer 2.2L turbo formula they use.
I would imagine the TUDOR cars use something similar, but I never get a chance to go to their garage at the LBGP.
Great observations bdcardinal! In 2014, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40 motor oil with PurePlus Technology was used off of the shelf in all Chevrolet twin-turbocharged V-6 engines that competed in the 2014 Verizon IndyCar Series. The Pennzoil Ultra Platinum motor oil Team Penske uses in all of its Indy cars, is the same motor oil consumers can buy right off-the-shelf.
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum was also under the hood providing top-tier protection for the No. 91 SRT Viper GTS-R competing in the 2014 TUDOR United SportsCar Championship. - The Pennzoil Team
I thought it was pretty cool. I think I first noticed it when I was in the garage area for the 2012 race. I was visiting a family friend that at that time drove fro a Honda powered team, now Chevrolet powered. However I noticed the bottles outside one of the major Chevrolet teams, who uses Ford in NASCAR. Either way pretty cool they are using the off the shelf oil.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
One of the IndyCar races I went to at Fontana, I noticed a lot of Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 bottles in a certain team's pit. Sounds about right considering the newer 2.2L turbo formula they use.
I would imagine the TUDOR cars use something similar, but I never get a chance to go to their garage at the LBGP.
Great observations bdcardinal! In 2014, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-40 motor oil with PurePlus Technology was used off of the shelf in all Chevrolet twin-turbocharged V-6 engines that competed in the 2014 Verizon IndyCar Series. The Pennzoil Ultra Platinum motor oil Team Penske uses in all of its Indy cars, is the same motor oil consumers can buy right off-the-shelf.
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum was also under the hood providing top-tier protection for the No. 91 SRT Viper GTS-R competing in the 2014 TUDOR United SportsCar Championship. - The Pennzoil Team
I thought it was pretty cool. I think I first noticed it when I was in the garage area for the 2012 race. I was visiting a family friend that at that time drove fro a Honda powered team, now Chevrolet powered. However I noticed the bottles outside one of the major Chevrolet teams, who uses Ford in NASCAR. Either way pretty cool they are using the off the shelf oil.
I have found some 0w-10 oil for racing. Redline has some.
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Yes 0W-20 (and lighter) oils are used in racing and not just for qualifying purposes.
Check out following Shell Ultra Racing 0W-20 that's used in Formula 3:
http://s03.static-shell.com/content/dam/...bricant0w20.pdf
And I understand that even lighter and 20 grade oils are use in F1.
Check out following Shell Ultra Racing 0W-20 that's used in Formula 3:
http://s03.static-shell.com/content/dam/...bricant0w20.pdf
And I understand that even lighter and 20 grade oils are use in F1.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
And I understand that even lighter and 20 grade oils are use in F1.
True, but hydrodynamics works on viscosity, clearance, projected area, and surface speed.
I understand also that they are so tight that they can scarcely be turned cold (there's the clearance part), and have surface speeds that obviously mirror their RPM...very very unlike a diesel pulling away at near full torque and 1,500 RPM.
And I understand that even lighter and 20 grade oils are use in F1.
True, but hydrodynamics works on viscosity, clearance, projected area, and surface speed.
I understand also that they are so tight that they can scarcely be turned cold (there's the clearance part), and have surface speeds that obviously mirror their RPM...very very unlike a diesel pulling away at near full torque and 1,500 RPM.
IN our racecars, fuel dilution was why we started with a 50wt. With the clearances ran in piston/ring/cylinder areas, until the engine was at full temp, it would allow a small amount of dilution, and without fail every week the oil smelled like alcohol, even though no abnormal wear was shown. While I only know our engines, and our form of racing, our engine builder constantly saw more engine wear with Synthetic, over say a VR1, or Brad Penn Dino 50wt. He had us and a couple other teams on a strict Synthetic diet for a season, and the following season, we were all back on dino
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes 0W-20 (and lighter) oils are used in racing and not just for qualifying purposes.
Check out following Shell Ultra Racing 0W-20 that's used in Formula 3:
http://s03.static-shell.com/content/dam/...bricant0w20.pdf
And I understand that even lighter and 20 grade oils are use in F1.
Interesting link to the Shell 0w-20 racing oil. Do you know what they mean by "Shell technologists developed the lubricant formulation, which exploits advanced Shell
XHVI base oils and a unique combination of performance additives. " ?????
Racing oil is always interesting because I think they might be doing something special, and maybe using racing oil as an additive in a normal vehicle might work. I've noticed M1 Racing Oil 0w-30 has detergents in it, and maybe too much anti-friction/wear additives, and whatever high-temperature basestocks, all good. Can't use it straight of course.
Yes 0W-20 (and lighter) oils are used in racing and not just for qualifying purposes.
Check out following Shell Ultra Racing 0W-20 that's used in Formula 3:
http://s03.static-shell.com/content/dam/...bricant0w20.pdf
And I understand that even lighter and 20 grade oils are use in F1.
Interesting link to the Shell 0w-20 racing oil. Do you know what they mean by "Shell technologists developed the lubricant formulation, which exploits advanced Shell
XHVI base oils and a unique combination of performance additives. " ?????
Racing oil is always interesting because I think they might be doing something special, and maybe using racing oil as an additive in a normal vehicle might work. I've noticed M1 Racing Oil 0w-30 has detergents in it, and maybe too much anti-friction/wear additives, and whatever high-temperature basestocks, all good. Can't use it straight of course.
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Originally Posted By: camperbob
IN our racecars, fuel dilution was why we started with a 50wt. With the clearances ran in piston/ring/cylinder areas, until the engine was at full temp, it would allow a small amount of dilution, and without fail every week the oil smelled like alcohol, even though no abnormal wear was shown. While I only know our engines, and our form of racing, our engine builder constantly saw more engine wear with Synthetic, over say a VR1, or Brad Penn Dino 50wt. He had us and a couple other teams on a strict Synthetic diet for a season, and the following season, we were all back on dino
Roundy-rounders, or 1/4 milers??
IN our racecars, fuel dilution was why we started with a 50wt. With the clearances ran in piston/ring/cylinder areas, until the engine was at full temp, it would allow a small amount of dilution, and without fail every week the oil smelled like alcohol, even though no abnormal wear was shown. While I only know our engines, and our form of racing, our engine builder constantly saw more engine wear with Synthetic, over say a VR1, or Brad Penn Dino 50wt. He had us and a couple other teams on a strict Synthetic diet for a season, and the following season, we were all back on dino
Roundy-rounders, or 1/4 milers??
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