BMW Z3 2.5 with Castrol Edge 0W-30

[kschachn]

So it's better then. Really? You know this how?

And how is it better and what does that get me?

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why would I? The filter meets the standard specified by BMW, since the Hengst filter also carries the BMW logo.

Are you saying I need something else?

Yes. Minimum standards are OK, better performance is better.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
So it's better then. Really? You know this how?

And how is it better and what does that get me?


Like I already said above, Hengst, Mann, others hide their internal secret ISO 4548-12, and Fram doesn't. Also, Fram makes no secret they blend in glass synthetic fibers and/or polymer fibers across their entire line. Do your homework. I'll let you google that yourself.

 

[kschachn]

That's a problem, yes. So your claim that the Fram is better is unsubstantiated.

Even if I accept it is better, how much better is it? A lot better or just a little better?

My old M60 which has had a lifetime diet of Hengst (and maybe a few Mahle) filters uses little to no oil during a typical OCI and the insides are spotless. What would "better" have gotten me, and what would it get me going forward?

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: kschachn
So it's better then. Really? You know this how?

And how is it better and what does that get me?

Like I already said above, Hengst, Mann, others hide their internal secret ISO 4548-12, and Fram doesn't. Also, Fram makes no secret they blend in glass synthetic fibers and/or polymer fibers across their entire line. Do your homework. I'll let you google that yourself.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: edyvw

So it goes like this: FRAM puts synthetic paper in and it disintegrates after some time.
Mann or whatever puts plain paper, but it holds for OCI.
I think I will choose plain paper.
By the way, who are enthusiasts?


Fram disintegrates? Where? You're just saying that with no proof.
Enthusiasts are people who choose products based on their superior performance, not usually based on 'made in Germany' etc.
Its old-man Cumberbatch down the road who says (with a nasaly tone): "I'll just use what the dealership tells me to." or "That company seems nice, I'll trust them." when logical enthusiasts do their homework and buy the best product.

Did you see that link that was posted?
Thanx for letting me know who are enthusiasts

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: kschachn
So it's better then. Really? You know this how?

And how is it better and what does that get me?


Like I already said above, Hengst, Mann, others hide their internal secret ISO 4548-12, and Fram doesn't. Also, Fram makes no secret they blend in glass synthetic fibers and/or polymer fibers across their entire line. Do your homework. I'll let you google that yourself.

So based on that, BMW is using filter that is just OK, nothing special because of German nationalism, but they are not using Continental tires, but Michelin and Bridgestone because of what?
Like I said, you should contact BMW and tell them that enthusiasts are using FRAM.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Ha! If anybody believes that plain paper oil filters (Mann, Hengst, Mahle in bmws) beat synthetic (Fram Ultra) or synthetic blends (all other Frams), given also that Fram uses a lot of surface area, if not more, and publishes stellar 4548-12 reports, you are smoking something weird.

Again, an enthusiast makes product decisions based on
1. Information available.
2. Product performance.

Anybody using paper filter media oil filters needs to research the benefits of synth/synth-blend media.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Ha! If anybody believes that plain paper oil filters (Mann, Hengst, Mahle in bmws) beat synthetic (Fram Ultra) or synthetic blends (all other Frams), given also that Fram uses a lot of surface area, if not more, and publishes stellar 4548-12 reports, you are smoking something weird.

Again, an enthusiast makes product decisions based on
1. Information available.
2. Product performance.

Anybody using paper filter media oil filters needs to research the benefits of synth/synth-blend media.


I use OEM filters in my M5. We don't know whether the media is paper or a blend (they look the same). But I've found the OEM BMW filters (made by Hengst) are slightly different than the comparable MANN and fit the top of the canister differently as well, which is why I've gone back to OEM.

The filter is also huge.

I'm most certainly an enthusiast. Sometimes, the OEM product is just "better" than the aftermarket one in a way that makes it preferable to use. This is the reason I've gone back to using the FL-820S on the Expedition, the threaded-end bypass is a feature only that filter has in this application. It gives up a very small amount of efficiency over the other aftermarket filters but doesn't risk initial start-up "particulate wash" due to the bypass location.

This line of thinking is also why I use M1 0w-40 over the BMW 5w-30, the M1 0w-40 has far more approvals than just LL-01 attached to it and is, in my mind, a better product because of that.

 

[CrawfishTails]

OVERKILL, I'd agree there is more to look at than just paper vs. synthetic media issues. However, it disgusts me that Mann, Mahle, Hengst, etc. do not publish performance results on their oil filters. I'd also agree that those paper-German filters are OK. They are adequate. Fram makes a well-built product and ALSO publishes great perf specs, so they win me.

Certainly one is free to use dealer/OEM parts/oil all they want, and indeed thats the "safe" thing to do. Your rejection of BMW-branded oil is very logical, since some people want better stuff, period, nothing wrong with that.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Ha! If anybody believes that plain paper oil filters (Mann, Hengst, Mahle in bmws) beat synthetic (Fram Ultra) or synthetic blends (all other Frams), given also that Fram uses a lot of surface area, if not more, and publishes stellar 4548-12 reports, you are smoking something weird.

Again, an enthusiast makes product decisions based on
1. Information available.
2. Product performance.

Anybody using paper filter media oil filters needs to research the benefits of synth/synth-blend media.


Your FRAM bias is clear here for all to see.

The oil filter must also be sufficiently well made to perform for the OCI for the vehicle.

That's where FRAM has failed in this application in the past.

The OP has posted here to gain some sound advice, not hear marketing soundbites from the FRAM website.

 

[CrawfishTails]

SilverC6, if you read what I'm saying, you'll see I'm just saying synthetic fibers in media (with performance results published) is what is needed here. I don't care if its Fram or not, as long as both those conditions are met. Fram does this. Many times Wix or napaGold does it just fine. Mobil1 Extended Perf oil filters do this.

You are really hung up on Fram hating, to the point of being strange.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
SilverC6, if you read what I'm saying, you'll see I'm just saying synthetic fibers in media (with performance results published) is what is needed here. I don't care if its Fram or not, as long as both those conditions are met. Fram does this. Many times Wix or napaGold does it just fine. Mobil1 Extended Perf oil filters do this.

You are really hung up on Fram hating, to the point of being strange.

No, he is not hang up on hating. I personally used FRAM in my Mazda Millennia until I saw it that it is starting to disintegrate after 5K (that was FRAM Ultra).
We already pointed to you issue with FRAm and quality of assembly. They could have THE BEST paper inside, but if it cannot hold up for OCI, what is the point then?
By the way, in what group of people we fit in, if enthusiasts are using FRAM?

 

[CrawfishTails]

edyvw, It would be nice to see the Ultra you say disintegrated after 5k miles. Sure it did. Wire backed, thick synth media, sure it did.
As for what group you fit in, I'd put you in the category of people who just don't know enough.

 

[Quattro Pete]

You saw the link I posted of Fram Ultra. The media has separated from its base in 3K miles. I call it a failure.

 

[kschachn]

Clearly, you are not an enthusiast.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
You saw the link I posted of Fram Ultra. The media has separated from its base in 3K miles. I call it a failure.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
edyvw, It would be nice to see the Ultra you say disintegrated after 5k miles. Sure it did. Wire backed, thick synth media, sure it did.
As for what group you fit in, I'd put you in the category of people who just don't know enough.

By the way, I asked what group of people WE FIT IN. Since I do not know enough, than what group of people all these members belong to?

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails

As for what group you fit in, I'd put you in the category of people who just don't know enough.


At least we don't fall into the ex-member/member alias category???

And I don't hate FRAM filters, I use them. But just not in my BMW's.

The thing I do find annoying is a thinly veiled shill pretending to offer sincere opinion and advice to a new member needing some help.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
.....At least we don't fall into the ex-member/member alias category???.....

And I don't hate FRAM filters, I use them. But just not in my BMW's.

The thing I do find annoying is a thinly veiled shill pretending to offer sincere opinion and advice to a new member needing some help.

Interesting point. And the tone of criticizing and/or attacking members with a difference of opinion brings to mind the oft banned multiple alias troll, FetchFar/ElastoHydro/Route66Mike/Stickybuns/boundarylayer et al. Members gradually caught on and recognized the mo.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
....This is what Fram Ultra looks like in a BMW application...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3434977/Fram_Ultra_FAILURE#Post3434977

No, thanks.

And no matter it's rated ISO efficiency, the 'complete Ultra Failure' linked wouldn't come close to the efficiency of the OEM, Hengst, Mann or Mahle cartridges being criticized. The cellulose based media cartridges get the job done quite nicely and have for a long long time.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
OVERKILL, I'd agree there is more to look at than just paper vs. synthetic media issues. However, it disgusts me that Mann, Mahle, Hengst, etc. do not publish performance results on their oil filters. I'd also agree that those paper-German filters are OK. They are adequate. Fram makes a well-built product and ALSO publishes great perf specs, so they win me.

I can't speak for Overkill, but I do know our Canadian market in general. When I had the old Audi, I could get Mann, Mahle, Hengst, and German Bosch oil filters for under $5, all made in Germany or Austria. Why would I spend at least 30% more for a Fram. This isn't a Fram bash, but in Canada, OEM European filters can be obtained far more cheaply than just about anything else you can imagine. I can still get the OEM filters for that Audi for cheaper than anything here for my G or my F-150.