Using 2-Cycle Oil in Fuel??

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CoosawJack

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Feb 5, 2015
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Hi Folks!!

I just joined the forum and have a question about upper cylinder lubrication?? I have a 2004 Mercury Marauder I SuperCharged in 2005 and it had 256K miles on the original engine when I lost the top ring land on #7 piston (we think detonation?) under 9 PSI of boost......it ran right BAD!!

I have used about 1/2 oz per gallon of TCW-3 oil in my fuel since the first fill up.....NOW I am being told ANY oil in fuel will promote DETONATION?? Is this true?? I was told different by an old "Oil Guy" 25 years ago when I started this practice in all my 4 Cycle engines with GOOD RESULTS......I thought??

Help me out here since the rebuild is expensive and I don't wanna repeat this IF oil caused it!!

Thanks in advance!!
 
Any oil vapour in your A/F mix will REDUCE octane, on a boosted motor that is BAD..

Acetone/toluene/xylene/benzene increase octane but could potentially damage fuel system components.

Redine SI1 would be my go to additive in this case, as the upper cylinder receives plenty of lubrication anyway. So much so, infact, that there is an oil control ring to stop excess oil getting into the cylinder!

Low IATs and high AKIs should be all you need
smile.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Olas
Any oil vapour in your A/F mix will REDUCE octane, on a boosted motor that is BAD..

Acetone/toluene/xylene/benzene increase octane but could potentially damage fuel system components.

Redine SI1 would be my go to additive in this case, as the upper cylinder receives plenty of lubrication anyway. So much so, infact, that there is an oil control ring to stop excess oil getting into the cylinder!

Low IATs and high AKIs should be all you need
smile.gif



are you sure? I always though it raised octane points because it is harder to burn. I have no scientific evidence it's just what I thought.
 
Originally Posted By: abycat
Originally Posted By: Olas
Any oil vapour in your A/F mix will REDUCE octane, on a boosted motor that is BAD..

Acetone/toluene/xylene/benzene increase octane but could potentially damage fuel system components.

Redine SI1 would be my go to additive in this case, as the upper cylinder receives plenty of lubrication anyway. So much so, infact, that there is an oil control ring to stop excess oil getting into the cylinder!

Low IATs and high AKIs should be all you need
smile.gif



are you sure? I always though it raised octane points because it is harder to burn. I have no scientific evidence it's just what I thought.


I agreed, I was told years ago the longer chain oil molecules burn slower thus "effectively" raising octane some!! If it's the other way around I have "Flirted With Disaster" for many years!!
 
I've seen plenty of threads outside of BITOG that suggest enough 2CO will reduce octane. I've added in my gas for almost three years now along with MMO.

The OP is using a lot more than what I've seen that should be safe to used, which is 2 oz per 10 gallons or 640:1. What he used is 250:1
 
I myself over the past 11 years have use Pennzoil Marine TC-W3 at 1oz per 5 gallons with never an issue!!!!

Followed Sarge and his testing with TC-W3 years ago... Like his results.
 
1) What type of fuel have you been using for the past 10 years? Regular? Premium?

2) 1/2 oz per gallon is a lot of TC-W3 for a 4-cycle engine. I use about 1/4 - 1/5 oz per gallon.

3) 'Octane' rating, as I understand it, isn't so much related to the length of the carbon chain in a hydrocarbon. Straight-chain hydrocarbons tend to have lower octane ratings regardless of the length of the chain. Highly branched or cyclical hydrocarbons have higher octane ratings. So two-cycle oil will decrease your octane rating somewhat, since it is (mostly) made up of straight chain hydrocarbons.
 
Originally Posted By: -SyN-
I myself over the past 11 years have use Pennzoil Marine TC-W3 at 1oz per 5 gallons with never an issue!!!!

Followed Sarge and his testing with TC-W3 years ago... Like his results.



+1, though not for as long as that. 1oz per 5 gallons seems to work for me, definitely no need to go up to 1 oz per 2 gallons.
 
The plugs looked perfect and NO the "True Octane" number will not increase using oil but the combustion rate and flame front will be slowed down somewhat with the oil EFFECTIVELY raising the octane....that's what I was told!!??

I like the idea of upper cylinder lubrication but NOT at the risk of detonation and engine destruction!!

All indications are one or more of my injectors ingested some rubber particles.....went lean at 6500 RPM's.......3 broken pistons (ring lands) and one bent rod.....it happened VERY FAST!!
 
most two strokes run in the 8-8.5:1 realm. They also tend to be fairly resistant to detonation as they have pretty uninterrupted and smooth combustion chambers (typically hemispherical). High RPM's also help make an engine less sensitive (10k+ is common on a 2 stroke and 20k isn't unheard of)
 
Originally Posted By: abycat
Originally Posted By: Olas
Any oil vapour in your A/F mix will REDUCE octane, on a boosted motor that is BAD..

Acetone/toluene/xylene/benzene increase octane but could potentially damage fuel system components.

Redine SI1 would be my go to additive in this case, as the upper cylinder receives plenty of lubrication anyway. So much so, infact, that there is an oil control ring to stop excess oil getting into the cylinder!

Low IATs and high AKIs should be all you need
smile.gif



are you sure? I always though it raised octane points because it is harder to burn. I have no scientific evidence it's just what I thought.


Octane isn't harder to burn. It's resists pre-ignition due to compression or hot spots and burns just fine once exposed to spark.
As far as your original question 1 ounce per 5 gallons is perfect. If that treat rate affects octane I'll eat my hat.

LS-1 tech forum has an 80 page thread on tc-w3 use in fuel. If you've got a free few hours check it out
 
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Wecome CooSaw but there is good forum for these kinds of questions:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/37/1/Fuels_and_Fuel_Additives:_Gaso

This is the Science and Technology of Oils and Lubricant Additives, not fuels.
 
So, folks will dump anything from leafblower oil to solvent to ATF in their gas tanks and then laugh at something like Lucas upper cylinder "treatment".
 
I still wish someone could explain to me what it is in the upper cylinder that needs lubing and isn't being lubed by the oil.

TBH I'm not even sure exactly where the "upper cylinder" is.
 
http://download.ms-motor-service.com/ximages/ks_50003958-02_web.pdf

on Page 72, there's already oil film (1~3um think) on cylinder wall to provide the necessary lubrication (of piston rings) and combustion sealing for the engine to last many, many hundreds of kms on a standard 4-cycle internal combustion engine, without the need of adding foreign matter into their oil or fuel.

"upper cylinder lubrication" is moot, and mostly intimidation if not marketing, IMO.

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I still wish someone could explain to me what it is in the upper cylinder that needs lubing and isn't being lubed by the oil.

TBH I'm not even sure exactly where the "upper cylinder" is.


Intake valves and top rings are the primary "targets"......IF......there's no downside (detonation potential)!!

What can it hurt and more than likely it seems to me it can help....if nothing more lubricating the in-tank fuel pump!!

Oh...and sorry "MolaKule" if I "over stepped" some boundaries but seems like the folks here have LOTSA input and experience that I value!!

Thanks for all you replies folks!!
 
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The intake valves need additional lubrication beyond what they may already be receiving?

And the fuel pump, yeah I have heard that before but honestly I just don't buy it. With nearly a million miles in my current vehicles and many miles in the ones before, I never experienced such a failure. I've never used anything in the fuel except an occasional PEA cleaner in the BMW. Of course my experience may not be typical.

Originally Posted By: CoosawJack

Intake valves and top rings are the primary "targets"......IF......there's no downside (detonation potential)!!

What can it hurt and more than likely it seems to me it can help....if nothing more lubricating the in-tank fuel pump!!

Oh...and sorry "MolaKule" if I "over stepped" some boundaries but seems like the folks here have LOTSA input and experience that I value!!

Thanks for all you replies folks!!
 
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