Shell Helix 0W-40 in VW TDI with dpf

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I'm servicing my parents 2006 Touareg 3.0 TDI with DPF and it normally reqires VW 507.00 oil.
The engine uses very little oil, about 0.5L every ~25000 km...

I have plenty of Shell helix ultra 0W-40 in stock. It has decent specs but it don't carry the VW507.
http://www.epc.shell.com/docs/GPCDOC_GTDS_Shell_Helix_Ultra_0W-40_(SN_CF_A3_B4)_(en)_TDS.pdf

Do you think the 0w-40 will hold up as good as vw507 in this engine? - I guess it has a more tbn than vw507 since it carry the mb229.5 spec
Would you put this oil in such an engine?
 
It says right in the spec sheet it's for diesel engines without DPF's so that's a big NO.

The oil itself would be fine in that motor but will not meet the demands of keeping the emissions system happy.
 
Correct. If you rapidly fill the DPF with non-combustible particulates, you have created a VERY expensive problem. VW has this spec for a reason. I drive 2 VW diesels and ONLY 507.0 oil goes in them.
 
It seems that you don't get the point..
The engine burn so little oil that the ash accumulation hardly can become a real problem, I think
Some other diesels also with dpf's burn WAY more oil - and those don't seem to have significantly more dpf problems than those with low oil consumption. The difference in ash content isn't that huge...
 
Originally Posted By: UrS4
It seems that you don't get the point..
The engine burn so little oil that the ash accumulation hardly can become a real problem, I think
Some other diesels also with dpf's burn WAY more oil - and those don't seem to have significantly more dpf problems than those with low oil consumption. The difference in ash content isn't that huge...


So when/if the engine started to consume this oil then what?
 
Originally Posted By: UrS4
It seems that you don't get the point..
The engine burn so little oil that the ash accumulation hardly can become a real problem, I think
Some other diesels also with dpf's burn WAY more oil - and those don't seem to have significantly more dpf problems than those with low oil consumption. The difference in ash content isn't that huge...

So why you asking? If you know the answer.
If I had that Touareg there is now ay I would risk that.
 
While the DPF on the 3.0 liter TDI isn't as expensive to replace as the one on the 2009 VW Jetta sold in the United States, it's still a $750 part plus gaskets and labor.

The use of the Helix Ultra won't stop your parents Touareg in it's tracks but long-term use of this product is not recommended. If you used it once or twice over the course of a 300,000 Km vehicle life it wouldn't make any difference. Using it every oil change for years and years would measureably decrease the life of the DPF.

Given the cost of oil in Europe, I'd probably use the stuff too if I had already bought it. The T-reg is already nearly 10 years old and will be put out to pasture in the not-so-distant future.
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay
While the DPF on the 3.0 liter TDI isn't as expensive to replace as the one on the 2009 VW Jetta sold in the United States, it's still a $750 part plus gaskets and labor.

The use of the Helix Ultra won't stop your parents Touareg in it's tracks but long-term use of this product is not recommended. If you used it once or twice over the course of a 300,000 Km vehicle life it wouldn't make any difference. Using it every oil change for years and years would measureably decrease the life of the DPF.

Given the cost of oil in Europe, I'd probably use the stuff too if I had already bought it. The T-reg is already nearly 10 years old and will be put out to pasture in the not-so-distant future.


OK great.
I have an additional question..
Is the sulphated ash "structure"/particle-size (when oil is burned) also different in vw 505 vs 507 or is it only the ash quantity which is a concern?
 
I imagine if you do a Google search you might find some academic papers on ash structure, but it will be defined more by the nature of the additives in use and their combustion regime rather than the spec they have to meet. So, in short, there's no way of knowing. The concern that the OEMs have is simply the amount of ash. Of course, total ash loading = oil ash propensity * amount burnt. You can't predict or control the amount burnt, but you can control the oil's ash propensity (by using a mid-SAPS oil like 507 00).
 
Ash is derived from the metallic additives in the oil. The more metallic additives the oil contains then the more residual ash will be produced.

It is for this reason that engine manufacturers specify and oil producers provide oils that contain low amounts of metallic additives. These oils are known as low-SAPS products (Sulfated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulfur). VW has their 504/507 specification, BMW has their LL-04, and Mercedes has theirs also.

You can run any oil that you'd like in your vehicle but in order to maintain good working condition of the emissions system it is required that you use low-SAPS oils. This will keep these ash particles from filling the particulate filter. Products that run less than 800 PPM (parts per million) of metallic anti-wear additives are generally what is desired. Compare this number to your Helix product which likely has upwards of 1,000 PPM of anti-wear additive and you can judge for yourself how harmful the use of the oil will be.
 
It's the quantity of the ash.

Carbon deposits in the dpf can be burned out with the regeneration process but the ash cannot so is left behind, after a while the ash just clogs the exhaust system.

The 507.00 oil is an ACEA C3 oil I think so you could maybe run the 5w-40 505.01 ACEA C3 (also mid saps) oil instead if you wanted to go thicker...
 
I was also going to suggest 505.01 but the OP implies he already has a stash of the specific Shell oil mentioned.

Originally Posted By: FowVay
Ash is derived from the metallic additives in the oil. The more metallic additives the oil contains then the more residual ash will be produced.


Agreed, if it gets burnt.

Originally Posted By: FowVay
It is for this reason that engine manufacturers specify and oil producers provide oils that contain low amounts of metallic additives.


Not quite. The specs do not specify the maximum levels of any metallic elements, only the maximum sulfated ash level (which, as you say, comes from the metals). Phosphorus (note spelling
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) is often given a maximum limit, but this is to protect catalysts, not DPFs.

Originally Posted By: FowVay
These oils are known as low-SAPS products (Sulfated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulfur). VW has their 504/507 specification, BMW has their LL-04, and Mercedes has theirs also.


Yep (Mercedes has the 229.31/229.51/229.52 specs). Strictly speaking, these are mid-SAPS specs (C4 types (
Originally Posted By: FowVay
Products that run less than 800 PPM (parts per million) of metallic anti-wear additives are generally what is desired. Compare this number to your Helix product which likely has upwards of 1,000 PPM of anti-wear additive and you can judge for yourself how harmful the use of the oil will be.


The spec is on sulfated ash, not anti-wear additive. More ash comes from the (calcium/magnesium-based) detergents than the antiwear. You may be thinking of the <900 ppm limit for phosphorus (which is from the ZDDP) but, as I said, this is a catalyst thing.
 
Use the correct spec oil for the VW.

Why go through all these gyrations just because you have some 0W-40 on the shelf.

Get in the car and go buy the correct oil for the application.
 
When the tdi with dpf is out of warranty and has high mileage on the clock, I think you could consider a different oil...

So that is why I am using Shell Rimula R6LM 10W40 synthetic acea E6 for 2 years now in my (tuned) 3.0tdi dpf. At 4,-Euro a liter it is a bargain for a synthetic oil.

No problems with dpf, engine is burning no oil, so i'm not worried about the dpf... even with 250.000KM on the clock engine runs perfectly fine and quiet.

The high mileage (and tuned) tdi engines with more worn piezo injectors suffer from fuel dilution and soot loading, so I think a more ''robust'' oil is perfect in this situation.
 
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