WHY would Toyota say to use VACUUM to ATF Level?

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Not a real house vacuum, actual pressure "vacuum"

They at Toyota have a new Rube Goldberg Gadget that hangs from the U760E transmission (no dipstick)to set ATF level, verrrrry touchy process on this tranny. The instructions are nuts. You are literally not going to believe that this amount of gear has to be used to set the level now.

Check it out at this link. >>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oatjuqxmrpvena...0Check.pdf?dl=0

NUTS!

Heres the snip it of the part where you apply a vacuum to the system, NOT to suck out fluid but to set it's level!!??

QUOTE
Operate the manual pump slowly to add Toyota genuine WS transmission fluid to the transmission.
Observe for transmission fluid leaking from the hose at the base of the WS ATF Level Gauge.
^ If fluid flows out slowly and only drips, then the transmission fluid level is within specifications.
^ If transmission fluid flows out rapidly, allow excess fluid to drain to a slight drip.
^ If no transmission fluid flows out, continue adding fluid using the Transmission Fill System until fluid begins to drip.

Confirm fluid level is within specifications per step 4.
After confirming fluid level is correct disconnect the Transmission Fill System hose quick connect from the Transmission Fill Adapter.
Re-connect the Vacuum Regulator Manifold hose quick connect to the Transmission Fill Adapter.
Open both of the Fluid Extraction Tank valves by turning the handle in-line with the hose to stop additional fluid loss. This will allow vacuum to be applied to the transmission and the vacuum gauge should read between 2 - 5 in. Hg (10 - 20 KPa).
Remove the WS ATF Level Gauge.


Install the overflow plug with a new gasket.
Torque: 40 N*m (408 kgf*cm, 36 ft*lbf)



looked at those "enhanced" instructions analyzed them in contrast to the standard instructions and here's what I have noted...

1. They have the fluid much hotter during the level check (195F) I bet this is because folks actually have to drive their car to the dealer, (duh Toyota) which the Toyota geniuses never accounted for, thus the cars were being checked to hot by the technicians and thereby overflowing too much ATF over the little plastic fill level tube. So Toyota now simply decided to just let the fluid get HOT hot and let the process go forward. I then thought about why Toyota wouldn't just create a new, taller overflow tube so the the higher fluid temp and greater expansion would be accomodated. The answer to that...I have no clue. Perhaps it's repeatability or just profit they were going after or selling the monstrosity of a device they devised or perhaps they thought that unless the made a major change to the process that a new slightly longer little plastic tube would be overlooked by technicians as being unimportant.

2. Also new to the process for level check in those "enhanced" instructions is the application of a 3psi vacuum until the device is attached. The Earths atmosphere is about 15psi. So they must be trying to achieve something by applying 3psi of opposing vacuum. Perhaps the know it pulls some fluid up out of the pan until the new guage device cans be attached or perhaps it pulls fluid out of the upper transmission nooks and crannies and gets it somewhere they really want it sooner or in greater quantity (such as in the pan).

Really bizarre stuff with some unanswered aspects to their logic.

But we know this much...they were likely sending out cars under filled because they were serviced too quickly and worse, at too high a temp.

This new system is a monstrosity. It's almost laughable except that now YOU and I both have a car we want to service like good owners and have a huge hassle. Not only that but cars with transmissions PRONE to shudder and thus frankly could use the extra "TLC" of fluid changes. What a perfect storm of nonsense hey.

I got a laugh out of their equipment and essential tool list....to check the ATF! LOL
 
i've heard that some aisin trannies can be damaged by air bubles plugging small passages in the valvebody. thus, careful fluid change is the must. maybe this is one of those trannies and requires the vacuum?

but to answer your question, yes, the procedure is nuts indeed. if I had one of those trannies, I would not touch it.
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
This new system is a monstrosity. It's almost laughable except that now YOU and I both have a car we want to service like good owners and have a huge hassle. Not only that but cars with transmissions PRONE to shudder and thus frankly could use the extra "TLC" of fluid changes.


Just another reason not to buy.

This is how Toyota and some other dealers get around the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. They know a homeowner or small garage won't buy the necessary equipment to service the vehicle.

Do your research before you buy a car, including what maintenance is required and how much you can do OR just plan on taking it to the dealer for every little thing.
 
Originally Posted By: AandPDan

This is how Toyota and some other dealers get around the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. They know a homeowner or small garage won't buy the necessary equipment to service the vehicle.


i don't think they are doing this to drum up the business. if you ask most of toyota dealership they will tell you the new trannies don't require ATF changes and some will flatly refuse to do it (they probably don't have the special equipment in the first place).
 
The process is not so different to what exists on the ZF transmission in my 2004 Passat.

ZF has temperature settings for checking the level, drip rates for confirmation of level. However, no vacuum required. FWIW, lots of the ZF tiptronic transmissions are overfilled from factory, with no apparent issues. Some DIY steps suggest that the drain & fill process should also slighly overfill the pan.

No dipstick transmissions are all about keeping dirt and the un-trained from putting stuff down into the witches brew cauldron (or pan)
 
Originally Posted By: KGMtech

ZF has temperature settings for checking the level, drip rates for confirmation of level. However, no vacuum required.

Thanks for the comment.. It goes to show how odd this vacuum thing is that Toyota is doing.
The original procedure has no vacuum being used. LINK >>>>> ORIGINAL TOYOTA ATF LEVEL CHECK PROCEDURE

And the original process was long enough already.


The vacuum being applied is really bizarre. especially since the earths atmosphere is at 15psi and this applies, in the opposing direction, 3 psi of vacuum through a side fill port while you have the bottom drain plug open to atmosphere anyhow.

I got a laugh out of their equipment and essential tool list....to check the ATF! LOL



How is this hanging from a transmission pan BETTER than having an F*ing dipstick Toyota!!? LOL

 
Stupid. Plain old stupid. I could live without a dipstick but this is a bridge too far.
 
I'm beginning to rethink changing the fluid in my wifes 2006 Avalon.....and it HAS a dipstick!
 
UPDATE: SCARY STUFF, the dealers have little clue what they are doing.

Since this procedure to apply vacuum of 3psi to the fill plug and have a rube Goldberg gizmo hanging from the drain plug started in FEB of 2013....

I'm going to do a "Canvass" and call dealers across the country to get a "sample" of what any given customer would get actually performed at a Toyota dealer. I am going to ask to speak to a tech who is certified to do transmission replacement and fills. I specifically mention the vacuum procedure and SST (special service tool).

Here's my results so far. Makes me CRINGE.

Dealer #1 Springfield Ill. - "Yeah on those sealed units we use the overflow tube at temperature, no vacuum or other device... never heard of it."

Dealer #2 Peoria Ill - "Those are sealed and we don't reccommend a change of fluid unless the transmission has had a failure and we have to do it."

Dealer #3 Scottsdale AZ - "We have a machine that does it with the push of one button." I then reiterated that I wasn't talking about a flush, rather a fluid level set procedure. His reply, "I told you that the machine does it on its own."
 
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
The process is not so different to what exists on the ZF transmission in my 2004 Passat.

ZF has temperature settings for checking the level, drip rates for confirmation of level. However, no vacuum required. FWIW, lots of the ZF tiptronic transmissions are overfilled from factory, with no apparent issues. Some DIY steps suggest that the drain & fill process should also slighly overfill the pan.

No dipstick transmissions are all about keeping dirt and the un-trained from putting stuff down into the witches brew cauldron (or pan)



I would drill a hole..
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Originally Posted By: KGMtech

ZF has temperature settings for checking the level, drip rates for confirmation of level. However, no vacuum required.

Thanks for the comment.. It goes to show how odd this vacuum thing is that Toyota is doing.
The original procedure has no vacuum being used. LINK >>>>> ORIGINAL TOYOTA ATF LEVEL CHECK PROCEDURE

And the original process was long enough already.


The vacuum being applied is really bizarre. especially since the earths atmosphere is at 15psi and this applies, in the opposing direction, 3 psi of vacuum through a side fill port while you have the bottom drain plug open to atmosphere anyhow.

I got a laugh out of their equipment and essential tool list....to check the ATF! LOL



How is this hanging from a transmission pan BETTER than having an F*ing dipstick Toyota!!? LOL




Isn't 1 "atmosphere" 14.2psi?
And 3 bar = 1 "atmosphere?"
 
Carefully measure how much you drain out and replace the same.
This new vacuum method instead of a real dip-stick is an Asinine idea. After reading the procedure, I would not expect a dealer to do it correctly. ed
 
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Originally Posted By: KGMtech

ZF has temperature settings for checking the level, drip rates for confirmation of level. However, no vacuum required.

Thanks for the comment.. It goes to show how odd this vacuum thing is that Toyota is doing.
The original procedure has no vacuum being used. LINK >>>>> ORIGINAL TOYOTA ATF LEVEL CHECK PROCEDURE

And the original process was long enough already.


The vacuum being applied is really bizarre. especially since the earths atmosphere is at 15psi and this applies, in the opposing direction, 3 psi of vacuum through a side fill port while you have the bottom drain plug open to atmosphere anyhow.

I got a laugh out of their equipment and essential tool list....to check the ATF! LOL



How is this hanging from a transmission pan BETTER than having an F*ing dipstick Toyota!!? LOL




Isn't 1 "atmosphere" 14.2psi?
And 3 bar = 1 "atmosphere?"


I did an estimate on on the atmospheric pressure and I think that 10-20Kpa is 3psi.
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump
UPDATE: SCARY STUFF, the dealers have little clue what they are doing.

Since this procedure to apply vacuum of 3psi to the fill plug and have a rube Goldberg gizmo hanging from the drain plug started in FEB of 2013....

I'm going to do a "Canvass" and call dealers across the country to get a "sample" of what any given customer would get actually performed at a Toyota dealer. I am going to ask to speak to a tech who is certified to do transmission replacement and fills. I specifically mention the vacuum procedure and SST (special service tool).

Here's my results so far. Makes me CRINGE.

Dealer #1 Springfield Ill. - "Yeah on those sealed units we use the overflow tube at temperature, no vacuum or other device... never heard of it."

Dealer #2 Peoria Ill - "Those are sealed and we don't reccommend a change of fluid unless the transmission has had a failure and we have to do it."

Dealer #3 Scottsdale AZ - "We have a machine that does it with the push of one button." I then reiterated that I wasn't talking about a flush, rather a fluid level set procedure. His reply, "I told you that the machine does it on its own."




Dealer #4 Joplin , MO - "Some guys here use the vacuum procedure or else you might have a few extra drips com out the overflow tube. "but I'm not sure anything was wrong with the old procedure."
 
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Carefully measure how much you drain out and replace the same.
This new vacuum method instead of a real dip-stick is an Asinine idea. After reading the procedure, I would not expect a dealer to do it correctly. ed


Based on my national calls so far.... there's no way anyone is likely to get this done correctly at the dealer. Really sad. Ok, maybe someone would hit the one tech that particular day that "may" use the procedure but this procedure is nearly 2 years old and my calls show that most don't have the special service tools or even know about the TSB at all.

WOW
 
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