Tire rotation

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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
When you do either front to rear cross or rear to front cross but not both, after 4 rotations all tires will be back at the original location. I do front to rear cross for all my cars, regardless front or rear wheel drive.


Curious as to why its not recommended by Toyota. They even provide a diagram showing just front to rear.
 
it varies by vehicle and tread design.

one of my vehicles being AWD I don't have to rotated the tires as much as say a FWD or RWD vehicle as the tires all wear close to the same, i do try to rotate them every 6 to 7k to keep them from feathering etc.

a regular RWD or 4x4 i would say around 5 thousand, same with a FWD
 
Originally Posted By: 007
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
When you do either front to rear cross or rear to front cross but not both, after 4 rotations all tires will be back at the original location. I do front to rear cross for all my cars, regardless front or rear wheel drive.


Curious as to why its not recommended by Toyota. They even provide a diagram showing just front to rear.

Sometimes the recommendation is simple so that not to confuse owner, whichever method you like you need to do it all the time, don't switch from 1 method to another.
 
Originally Posted By: 007
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
When you do either front to rear cross or rear to front cross but not both, after 4 rotations all tires will be back at the original location. I do front to rear cross for all my cars, regardless front or rear wheel drive.


Curious as to why its not recommended by Toyota. They even provide a diagram showing just front to rear.


They had to make it simple - they are a number of directional tires on the market. If the tech or consumer does not identify this characteristic, there would be an issue.
 
I feel that rotating tires is an outdated practice. Tires are better and cars hold alignment better now days.

If you have one position wearing abnormally, you'll just make all your tires wear abnormally.

I don't want anyone monkeying with my car every 5K miles. They do more harm than good many times.
 
OK, it might be time for my lecture on tire rotations.

If the front and rears of vehicle did the same thing, then there would be no need to rotate tires. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

Steer tires tend to wear in the shoulders and drive tires tend to wear in the center. RWD cars (and trucks) have about the same wear rate front to rear, but FWD tends to wear much more rapidly on the front.

HOWEVER, the type of driving that is done can affect the wear rate, front to rear. Driving in a straight line (think country driving) tends to wear the drive tires faster than the steer tires, but the overall wear rate is lower. But it also affects the wear pattern as country driving has less turns, so the steer tires don't wear the shoulders as fast.

So on RWD, country driving is good for the overall wear rate, but the rear tires will wear out first. The opposite is true for RWD city driving - the steers will wear out first and the overall wear rate is faster.

On FWD/country driving, the front tires will tend to wear slower, but in the center, where city driving causes more rapid and shoulder wear.

So what about the rears on a FWD? They tend to wear very slowly. I've calculated the difference to be about 2 1/2. So a set of tires where the fronts wear out in 20,000 miles, the rears will go about 50,000 miles.

And rears on a FWD are more affected by alignment conditions than the fronts - however, those affects show up much more slowly than the fronts.

My experience says that at about 20K, a FWD with no tire rotation will start to show some irregular wear. It will start out as noise, and gradually get worse until it is a vibration. When it starts and how quickly it develops is highly dependent on how bad the alignment is - and by how bad, I don't mean how far off the specs. I mean how much absolute toe and how much absolute camber (meaning, the published alignment specs aren't always the best for tire wear. They are sometimes for best handling.)

So the whole idea behind rotating tires is to even out both the wear rate and the wear pattern. - and in particular, to slow down the appearance of irregular wear, which is largely not reversible. I don't think there is such a thing as too much tire rotation (except to say the cost and labor issue) - but the opposite is not true.

So what about front to rear rotation vs cross rotation?

In the old days, the standard tire rotation pattern was a modified X - drives on the same side, steers cross (Remember, this was the days of where pretty much every car was a RWD and tires were bias ply!)

Just about the time FWD started being introduced was about the time radials started to be introduced - and there were problems with the belts on early radials. A common recommendation was to keep the tires from reversing rotation direction to reduce the possibility of a failure. I don't think that actually worked in practice, but the industry adopted it anyway.

Once the belt problem was solved, the tire industry gradually reverted back to the modified X tire rotation pattern - but for some reason, the car manufacturers didn't update their owners manuals.

It seems that car manufacturers really don't pay much attention to the manuals as there are all kinds of things in there that are way, way obsolete (like references to bias ply tires) and things that ought to be there that aren't (like replacing all 4 tires on a AWD!) - and those are just the tire related stuff. I wonder about some of those other things that I am not knowledgeable about!

So there you have it. I recommend regular tire rotation - even though it disguises alignment issues. (If you really pay attention, you can diagnose alignment issues AND rotate tires).
 
I rotate every 5 to 7.5K. Usually follow the manual for pattern. Plus as mentioned, I check brakes and look everything over. Never had any issues with frozen wheels or lug nuts/bolts. It's your money, do what you want.
If I had to rely on the shop to do it for me, I'd be hesitant to let them do it without a discussion about torque and trashing my wheels, lug nuts, and center caps.
 
I usually rotate my tires every 10k, i.e. every oil change. So far it's worked well and I replace all 4 tires at the same time. This is with 90%+ highway driving though.
 
Every 5,000 miles I follow Tirerack.com's recommended rotation pattern for all 5 wheels:

TireRotation5_07MAR13_zpsbba9c8d9.jpg


Keeps the tires on my all-wheel drive truck happy
thankyou2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 007
In looking at the 2010 Yaris owners manual online I see that they recommend rotating the tires every 5K but only front to rear, no crossover.


My Sienna recommends the same rotation. Front to back and no crossover. But I have it done at the shop, so I don't know if they follow that or not.
 
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Oh, I forgot the part in my lecture about rotation pattern.

It doesn't really matter much what pattern is used. What is important is the front to rear swap. Whether the tires cross or not isn't nearly as important as the rotation itself.

And if you have a full size spare, you should include that in your pattern. You don't want the spare hanging around and becoming too old to use.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
And if you have a full size spare, you should include that in your pattern. You don't want the spare hanging around and becoming too old to use.


Normally full size spares are ugly steel wheels. I can't even envision a tire shop having the patience to remove and replace a spare.

Not in the real world.
 
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