Manual transmission additive help

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: nwjones18
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
I posted earlier about the shifter bushings.. Here is a video on how to replace it. Like I said it fixed my truck and I've seen it cure shifting problems in other trucks. I'd strongly recommend taking a look at them. The fluid used in it is not the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9vow60baZo


I haven't had to do those yet. Thanks for posting the video, I book marked it for if/when I have to replace mine. What are you using for a fluid in your M5OD?


I have syncromesh in mine. I was trying to fix some of the problems that the shifter bushings cured.. It seems to work fine but I bet it'd shift as well with ATF now that I have the new bushings in it.


I love the way mine shifts, night and day compared to the 85 E-150 I had with the 4 speed OD transmission. That transmission really sucked.

I think when I drop the transmission I'll look into changing those bushings too.

I put a Centerforce II clutch in it probably 20 years ago when the slave cylinder let go. I'm going to use a CF II again.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

Agreed, badtlc constantly recommends non approved fluids to people. They might be better, but why risk using a fluid that is not OEM approved?


The entire purpose of this site is to go beyond what your OM requires. Everyone ends up here in the search of perfection or doing better, finding the best. If you want to run API SJ motor oil because your owner's manual spec's it, go for it but those people aren't the ones who usually end up here.

Take demarpaint for example. He uses MMO in everything. I don't see that located in an owners manual but he uses it because he feels he can do better than just what is required by using it.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
The bearings in the M5OD are splash lubed.
On top of that the oiling slots, ports, holes etc,.. are small why?..IDK. Thats the way Mazda/Ford wanted it.

Next,the fluid needs to be thin enough to get out of the way to let the tapers/synchros slow the shaft and clutch disc.Thick fluid would not "squeeze" out quickly enough to let this happen.What's too thick? [/B]

According to Ford, anything above an ATF, is.Plenty of guys on the Ford sites use thicker fluids such as Pennz Synchromesh or a thin MTL.



It seems there is a range of oil thicker than ATF which you'd be ok but I'm not going to experiment with mine.

Maybe what ford wants is thinner fluid for CAFE? Who knows...but i do know running too thick of a fluid in these trans may cause some problems.In some cases,completely ruins them.


I don't know of a Manual Tranny that isn't splash lubed.

The MTF needs to be thin enough to allow the the shifter fork to move well:

Quote:
Shifter Assembly: The gears resting on the top shaft, the input shaft, are locked onto that shaft and rotate at the same rpm as the engine. The bottom output shaft has synchronizers “splined” to this shaft, so they can move around as the gear ratio is changed. The gears on the output (bottom) shaft are allowed to rotate freely on the output shaft or on small roller or “needle” bearings, depending on the horsepower transmitted and the design. The output shaft will rotate at various rpms depending on gear selection. In first gear, for example, you want low output shaft rpm and high torque.

The shifter moves the associated linkage which connects to the shifter forks. The linkages position the shifter forks, and effectively “programs” the shifter forks in order to select the required gear ratio. I.E., for each shift lever position, the shifter forks are moved around to drive the splined synchronizers on the output shaft. The shifter forks have a bore so they can slide on the guide rods. There is a specified clearance between the shifter forks’ bore and the shifter fork guide rods. Lubricant effects: Too high a viscosity lubricant and the shifting will be hard and sluggish. More force will be required to go from one gear to another. Too thin an oil and the forks will wear, the clearances will increase, and the shifting will become sloppy and uncertain. The correct mix of base oil viscosities is needed here to insure good cold weather and hot weather shifting. Synthetics excel here because of their high viscosity index.


Synchromesh Transmissions and Lubricants Post #2813713

It's the friction modification chemistry in a dedicated MTF that allows smooth engagement of synchros.

We're not talking here about going from an ATF viscosity to a 50 weight oil.

We're talking here about replacing run-of-the-mill ATF's with a dedicated MTF of similar viscosity.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: badtlc


Take demarpaint for example. He uses MMO in everything. I don't see that located in an owners manual but he uses it because he feels he can do better than just what is required by using it.


Interesting, no arguing we want the best for our vehicles. For the record I use MMO as needed in the oil. At the moment I have no need for it. Thankfully!

Next time I speak with my Ford buddy I'm going to ask what he feels is best for my transmission. He's been servicing Fords for over 30 years now so he's very familiar with the unit, and IMO an expert. The MT is one thing we never discussed, although we did talk clutches. Maybe when I do the clutch job I'll make the change.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

Agreed, badtlc constantly recommends non approved fluids to people. They might be better, but why risk using a fluid that is not OEM approved?


The entire purpose of this site is to go beyond what your OM requires. Everyone ends up here in the search of perfection or doing better, finding the best. If you want to run API SJ motor oil because your owner's manual spec's it, go for it but those people aren't the ones who usually end up here.

Take demarpaint for example. He uses MMO in everything. I don't see that located in an owners manual but he uses it because he feels he can do better than just what is required by using it.


Thats all well and good but then why does BMW specifically spec ATF in a 2006 model?
Sorry, if i have to go with BMW's recommendation or guys on a forum i am going with BMW 100%.
They must have a reason not to include this specific model in the MTF recommendations as it is one of very few not listed.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav


Thats all well and good but then why does BMW specifically spec ATF in a 2006 model?
Sorry, if i have to go with BMW's recommendation or guys on a forum i am going with BMW 100%.
They must have a reason not to include this specific model in the MTF recommendations as it is one of very few not listed.


That's why I'll speak with my Ford tech buddy. If he says it better for my application I'm all over it.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Trav


Thats all well and good but then why does BMW specifically spec ATF in a 2006 model?
Sorry, if i have to go with BMW's recommendation or guys on a forum i am going with BMW 100%.
They must have a reason not to include this specific model in the MTF recommendations as it is one of very few not listed.


Find where BMW specs ATF for the 2006 BMW 330 xi MTX. Everything I find says Pentosin MTF2 is the spec'd fluid by BMW.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trav


Thats all well and good but then why does BMW specifically spec ATF in a 2006 model?
Sorry, if i have to go with BMW's recommendation or guys on a forum i am going with BMW 100%.
They must have a reason not to include this specific model in the MTF recommendations as it is one of very few not listed.


That's why I'll speak with my Ford tech buddy. If he says it better for my application I'm all over it.


Just keep in mind, just like a mechanic is clueless when it comes to oil blending and properties, techs don't have a clue about fluid technology. They know it needs it and that is about it.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trav


Thats all well and good but then why does BMW specifically spec ATF in a 2006 model?
Sorry, if i have to go with BMW's recommendation or guys on a forum i am going with BMW 100%.
They must have a reason not to include this specific model in the MTF recommendations as it is one of very few not listed.


That's why I'll speak with my Ford tech buddy. If he says it better for my application I'm all over it.


Just keep in mind, just like a mechanic is clueless when it comes to oil blending and properties, techs don't have a clue about fluid technology. They know it needs it and that is about it.


This guy knows, and in the unlikely event he doesn't he'll find out.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: Trav


Thats all well and good but then why does BMW specifically spec ATF in a 2006 model?
Sorry, if i have to go with BMW's recommendation or guys on a forum i am going with BMW 100%.
They must have a reason not to include this specific model in the MTF recommendations as it is one of very few not listed.


Find where BMW specs ATF for the 2006 BMW 330 xi MTX. Everything I find says Pentosin MTF2 is the spec'd fluid by BMW.

The 06 is not in this list.
BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
2001 330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)
2002 BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)
2003 BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)
2004 BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)
2005 BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)

The 06 takes D6ATF

Link please to where the 06 330xi takes MTF2

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Trav

The 06 is not in this list.
BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
2001 330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)
2002 BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)
2003 BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)
2004 BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)
2005 BMW 330xi Manual Trans Fluid
330xi (E46) - 3.0L 6 Cyl (24 Valve)

The 06 takes D6ATF

Link please to where the 06 330xi takes MTF2



I get the point you are trying to make but that list is for the E46. The 2006 330XI is an E90. It takes MTF2 pentosin. Google the BMW fluid specs for that car, not an online parts website. That fluid was used for the transmission before 2006 and after 2006. They didn't just change in 2006.

 

[Trav]

It actually specs MTF-3 but thats besides the point.
You cited Redline as a source of information..
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Like I said, read Molakule's paper on it and or Redlines.

Okay so i did. Like i said i am just an old wrench turner.
Redline specs Dex VI as a replacement for the MTF-3 which i assume is much lighter than the MTF-2.

BMW claims with an orange tag on the unit it does take ATF.
No matter this isn't about the BMW anyway its about the unit the OP has and Demarpaint also happens to have.

The TSB may well be old but i see it like this.
Take these filled for life manual transmissions, even BMW. They don't say "filled for life until something better comes down the road" as it inevitably will. Do they?
IMHO if Demarpaint is at 27+ years and counting with zero problems ever with the transmission i would dare say the fluid is more than just good enough or is in some way marginal.

This is no argument with you, i understand your points and can see the validity in them but on the other side of that coin 27+ years on the same type fluid its hard to accept that it isn't doing the job perfectly well.

Lets say for the sake of argument the MTF is better. How much more trouble free life could he expect of this unit.
I don't know, this seems to be one of those situations where there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Take these filled for life manual transmissions, even BMW. They don't say "filled for life until something better comes down the road" as it inevitably will. Do they?



Yes, but this IS BITOG!

 

[Trav]

Your right i forgot about that.

 

[dailydriver]

So WHO formulates this miraculous Bimmer fluid, and what is it made out of that it could never, ever possibly shear down, get contaminated, and need changing (even in 200K+ of service life)??

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
So WHO formulates this miraculous Bimmer fluid, and what is it made out of that it could never, ever possibly shear down, get contaminated, and need changing (even in 200K+ of service life)??

Santa's Elves, you didn't know that?

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
So WHO formulates this miraculous Bimmer fluid, and what is it made out of that it could never, ever possibly shear down, get contaminated, and need changing (even in 200K+ of service life)??

Santa's Elves, you didn't know that?


In the same facility that they produced the 'old green elixir'?? LOL

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
So WHO formulates this miraculous Bimmer fluid, and what is it made out of that it could never, ever possibly shear down, get contaminated, and need changing (even in 200K+ of service life)??

Santa's Elves, you didn't know that?


In the same facility that they produced the 'old green elixir'?? LOL


Perhaps...........

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
So WHO formulates this miraculous Bimmer fluid, and what is it made out of that it could never, ever possibly shear down, get contaminated, and need changing (even in 200K+ of service life)??

Don't Mobil make it to Toyota's specifications ???

 

[Trav]

Makes sense, they do their engine oils. I think Fuchs makes the BMW fluid or they did.