Is Toyota WS ATF really THAT bad?

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Yikes 700 miles due to poor fill level. Way to go Toyota...no dipstick!


yeah i hate those no dipstick trannies! my wife`s benz is the same friggin way

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: doublebase
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: doublebase
Lexus calls this fluid "lifetime" is a scam and here's why...in Canada the very same car is recommended to have the transmission fluid changed at 60k miles!!


What does Lexus USA have to say about that one?


I really don't know what Lexus USA has to say about it. It's a raging debate on club lexus, and it's split pretty much right down the middle...half change it, half don't. Matter of fact that's where I learned that in Canada they want you to change it at 60k...a guy posted a picture of his owner's manual. And I read somewhere that in the middle east they change it every 50k.


The 60K mile change is for vehicles that tow. There are Lexus LS430's that have 300K+ miles and never had the WS ATF changed. I do believe in ATF changes but it does depend on the vehicle, mileage and usage.

 

[doublebase]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Originally Posted By: doublebase
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: doublebase
Lexus calls this fluid "lifetime" is a scam and here's why...in Canada the very same car is recommended to have the transmission fluid changed at 60k miles!!


What does Lexus USA have to say about that one?


I really don't know what Lexus USA has to say about it. It's a raging debate on club lexus, and it's split pretty much right down the middle...half change it, half don't. Matter of fact that's where I learned that in Canada they want you to change it at 60k...a guy posted a picture of his owner's manual. And I read somewhere that in the middle east they change it every 50k.


The 60K mile change is for vehicles that tow. There are Lexus LS430's that have 300K+ miles and never had the WS ATF changed. I do believe in ATF changes but it does depend on the vehicle, mileage and usage.


Yeah I know some choose not to change it and are doing fine. I won't take that chance, but that's just me. I've always been that way regarding transmission fluid.

 

[Boss302fan]

I do agree with you and do the same. I usually will do drain and fills depending on which vehicle I am working on.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
A Senior member posting said that WS ATF "collapses massively under heat".


i like the terminology, it clearly shows that the "senior member" has no clue.

i personally don't like how the WS has low flash point and shears down. the toyota SAE papers on WS seemed to indicate the synthetic and shear stable nature of this fluid. maybe the north america supplier (esso?) screwed up and made some substitutions?

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
There are Lexus LS430's that have 300K+ miles and never had the WS ATF changed. I do believe in ATF changes but it does depend on the vehicle, mileage and usage.


true story, on yarisworld some people pride themself doing 300,000 miles on OEM ATF (WS).
when i changed ATF in yaris at over 60,000 miles, it looked like new.

i think this is bit like gear/diff oils. BITOG types (me including) change them every 30,000 while joe 6-pack keeps OEM fluid till the truck rots out at 300,000 miles.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: doublebase
I went to a dealer and the parts guy warned me to be careful changing the fluid and to make sure I got the level right because he's seen some go bad in as little as 700 miles, because of fluid level.


Yah, 'cuz the parts guy would never upsell anyone, nor try to convince a customer that they should let the well-trained monkeys technicians out back do the work for them.

I changed the trans oil on my truck, and while it's a pain it's not rocket science. Get trans to temp, pull a plug. Add as necessary. I'd much rather a dipstick, which would then double as a fill tube; but since the diffs are essentially the same (minus the temperature bit) I'm not sure how much I ought to hate on it.


@supton, which of the two plugs is the drain, and which is the get-the-level-right plug? I'd hate to pull the wrong one.

-m

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: doublebase

I went to a dealer and the parts guy warned me to be careful changing the fluid and to make sure I got the level right because he's seen some go bad in as little as 700 miles, because of fluid level.

I don't think they're overly confident doing them at some places, because to replace that tranny has got to be 6k?? Mine's an 8 speed and I'm glad I changed the fluid because like I said, it was dark. It was a southern car and I think the fluid reacted poorly to the heat.


some aisin trannies are sensitive to air bubbles plugging the solenoids and ruining the tranny. there is even special exipment (Toyota Transmissiom Fill System) one is supposed to use to change the fluid. if a dealership doesn't have that, they refuse to do it.

so, if one keeps ATF low and air is sucked into the pump, they tranny can be destroyed indeed.

from Amsoil:

Quote:
Certain Toyota applications require use of the Toyota Transmission Fill System to acurately complete transmission fluid changes. Aftermarket transmission shops and at-home mechanics neglecting to use the Toyota-specific Transmission Fill System may under-fill the transmission, which may lead to erratic shift patterns or "catastrophic" failure of the system. Consumers changing their Toyota WS fluid to AMSOIL Synthetic Fuel Efficient ATF are advised to ensure the fluid flush is completed using the Toyota Transmissiom Fill System.

Toyota has isued a unique set of equipment and processes related to the successful flushing and filling of automatic transmissions requiring Toyota WS fluid.With the introduction of the Toyota WS ATF specification, certain Toyota applications do not specify initail fluid inspection until 100,000 miles. Though this interval is approved by Toyota, many customers choose to change their transmission fluid prior to the recommended interval.

Consumers who flush and change their transmission fluid to a competitiive product, like AMSOIL Fuel Efficient Automatic Transmission Fluid, frequently either use fluid change facilities not specifically associated with Toyota or complete the service at home.Often,these shops and consumers do not have the Toyota Transmission Fill System. Without this equipment, proper flush and change procedures may not be accurately completed, leaving the consumer's transmission vulnerable to the detrimental effects of incorrect fill volume.

Under-filling transmissions can result in erractic shift patterns and, ultimately, transmission failure. The AMSOIL Technical Department has received calls outlining the referenced issues and has determined the cause to be improperly filled transmissions systems. AMSOIL recognizes that the proper equipment to sucessfully perform the fluid change is not readily available and is subsequently informing Dealers of the potential risks associated with improper fluid change procedures.

AMSOIL Synthetic Fuel Efficient Automatic Transmission Fluid is the appropriate fluid and an excellent replacement for the factory fill oil in Toyota transmissions requiring the WS spec. Amsoil recommends consumers with transmissions requiring WS fluid bring the supply of AMSOIL Fuel Efficient ATF to an approved transmission shop equipped with the Toyota Transmission System

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: meep
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: doublebase
I went to a dealer and the parts guy warned me to be careful changing the fluid and to make sure I got the level right because he's seen some go bad in as little as 700 miles, because of fluid level.


Yah, 'cuz the parts guy would never upsell anyone, nor try to convince a customer that they should let the well-trained monkeys technicians out back do the work for them.

I changed the trans oil on my truck, and while it's a pain it's not rocket science. Get trans to temp, pull a plug. Add as necessary. I'd much rather a dipstick, which would then double as a fill tube; but since the diffs are essentially the same (minus the temperature bit) I'm not sure how much I ought to hate on it.


@supton, which of the two plugs is the drain, and which is the get-the-level-right plug? I'd hate to pull the wrong one.

-m


I think you have an a750. Look through this doc
http://www.toyotatundraforum.com/pdf/A750E.pdf
and I think the difference in plugs will be apparent.

The fill plug is up off the pan, the check level is higher on the pan in a recessed are iirc. Drain plug is lowest.

 

[supton]

Oh, and the door jamb sticker will state what trans you have. A750 with one more letter. A750E probably.

 

[Doog]

I am on my 6th Toyota. 5 of them took WS. I flush all my transmissions every 50,000 miles with the WS ATF. Never a problem. But then again I only drive them 200,000 miles.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Read just a bit, but it is good enough to cover the warranty period. (60K) I don't see most BITOG'rs going much past that on ATF regardless of what fluid is used. So for us, moot point.


+1 50k for me.

 

[Mykl]

I took the Camry to a local dealership right after I bought it to get it changed at about 95k miles. The service manager mentioned that they recommend that it be changed at least every 100k, although his personal opinion was that closer to 50k was ideal. No waiver required.

Given that I'm basically in Mexico, with the heat that goes with it, I felt like his thoughts were reasonable.

That particular shop refills with BG synthetic, rather than WS. It was a little rough at first, but after a few thousand miles it smoothed out nicely.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Mykl

That particular shop refills with BG synthetic, rather than WS. It was a little rough at first, but after a few thousand miles it smoothed out nicely.


One of the nice things about electronically controlled
slush boxes, they can learn the viscosity properties of slightly different fluids.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: Doog
I am on my 6th Toyota. 5 of them took WS. I flush all my transmissions every 50,000 miles with the WS ATF. Never a problem. But then again I only drive them 200,000 miles.


You get rid of them just when they're broken in? I'm shooting for at least 300k miles on my two Toyotas.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Any transmission with a low level can be destroyed. Its not an Aisin or Toyota exclusive feature.

On any non dipstick transmission, one must understand how to check the ATF temp and level properly. Air bubble won't destroy a solenoid.

And, the Toyota Transmission Fill System is a joke and not a requirement. A funnel and hose will work too.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
A
And, the Toyota Transmission Fill System is a joke and not a requirement. A funnel and hose will work too.




Quite obvious that it is designed to force owners back to the
$tealership.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
A
And, the Toyota Transmission Fill System is a joke and not a requirement. A funnel and hose will work too.




Quite obvious that it is designed to force owners back to the
$tealership.


Spot on my friend! thats all it is.

 

[Mykl]

I don't know if I believe that a requirement to force customers back to the dealerships was thrown at the engineers who designed the gearboxes.

 

[EyesofThunder]

Wrong thread, Mods Delete it you can.