The McJob...The New Normal.

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: cashmoney
$10/hr jobs exist because there is tremendous excess supply of workers that have no high value skills. [...] So the way for US workers to earn higher labor rates/salary in today's world economy is to EARN it by first developing high value skills, investing in building high value skills and then working hard maintaining and improving them over your career.


That's a great pep talk but who has a crystal ball to see what the next career will be that gets offshored? There are lots of US engineers that were idled when their jobs get sent to India/ Singapore, for example. Why should high school kids excel in math/science when this career path got highjacked?

When your pay is above average, your head is sticking up pretty high in the game of whack-a-mole called life.

I wonder how they're going to undercut nursing, frankly.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: cashmoney
This is an economic law like gravity and it absolutely cannot be regulated or legislated away. The US can do nothing in terms of laws/regs to make factory jobs come back.


Tariffs can make factory jobs come back.

 

[Nate1979]

Just wait. 5 years from now these jobs are going to be replaced by robots.

 

[CT8]

It is the new world order we were all ignorant about.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
This is an economic law like gravity and it absolutely cannot be regulated or legislated away. The US can do nothing in terms of laws/regs to make factory jobs come back.


Tariffs can make factory jobs come back.
It seems the consumers really don'y care where what they buy comes from ,just so they can buy.

 

[Mr Nice]

Now with the Affordable Care Act (ACA) few companies will want a full time employee with benefits, they are simply too expensive. Better to outsource jobs to a staffing agency.

The POTUS can pander all he wants to college kids.... they are in for a rude awakening when it comes time to look for employment with student debt and bad job market.


www.DailyJobCuts.com

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: cashmoney
$10/hr jobs exist because there is tremendous excess supply of workers that have no high value skills. Guess what folks?...the world has radically changed in terms of local labor markets. It has gotten smaller economically and so capital and means of production naturally flowed to lower cost labor areas. This is an economic law like gravity and it absolutely cannot be regulated or legislated away. The US can do nothing in terms of laws/regs to make factory jobs come back. So the way for US workers to earn higher labor rates/salary in today's world economy is to EARN it by first developing high value skills, investing in building high value skills and then working hard maintaining and improving them over your career. If a person does not have the smarts or the initiative to do that then $10/hr is about what their labor is worth. You don;t have to get a university degree to do this , you can get a high value skill like welding, auto tech, HVAC, electrician, medical tech, etc. There are still plenty of ways to make a decent salary in the US but it takes a little planning, sacrifice and initiative...sadly those traits seem rare these days.


The US is trying to maintain a lifestyle based on a service economy and it will never work. Its doomed from the get go.
Once manufacturing went overseas so did the American dream with it.

All this politically correct clap trap about higher eduction for all is beyond delusional.
Out of all my nieces and nephews only 1 should be (and is) in college, the rest are in college but are as clever as a brush, which is what they should be learning to operate.
IMHO probably less than 10% of college student deserve to be there but its PC and we have do something with them because there are very few medium skill manufacturing jobs left.
In the PC country this has become. IQ over 80 college bound and the rest Walmart, McDonalds, etc.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
$10/hr jobs exist because there is tremendous excess supply of workers that have no high value skills. Guess what folks?...the world has radically changed in terms of local labor markets. It has gotten smaller economically and so capital and means of production naturally flowed to lower cost labor areas. This is an economic law like gravity and it absolutely cannot be regulated or legislated away. The US can do nothing in terms of laws/regs to make factory jobs come back. So the way for US workers to earn higher labor rates/salary in today's world economy is to EARN it by first developing high value skills, investing in building high value skills and then working hard maintaining and improving them over your career. If a person does not have the smarts or the initiative to do that then $10/hr is about what their labor is worth. You don;t have to get a university degree to do this , you can get a high value skill like welding, auto tech, HVAC, electrician, medical tech, etc. There are still plenty of ways to make a decent salary in the US but it takes a little planning, sacrifice and initiative...sadly those traits seem rare these days.


Agreed. The world where a person could make a good living packing boxes or assembling widgets is gone and won't return. Everyone has the ability to improve their skills, and there are a lot of opportunities beyond flipping burgers or pushing a pallet jack in a warehouse. Even a journeyman apprentice welder around here makes about $40,000/year.

Originally Posted By: salv
Everyone that works hard at a full time job deserves to earn a livable wage with decent benefits.


Comrade, you're certainly entitled to your belief system. But you're not entitled to a living wage-that has to be earned.



I can see where you're trying to go with that, Pop Rivit, but political discussions are forbidden on the forum. My point is someone working in a warehouse is earning a living, but not getting paid fairly for it. I can see a stronger need for unions now than ever before in my lifetime. IMO free trade is responsible for this. Those jobs used to pay well.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: eljefino

That's a great pep talk but who has a crystal ball to see what the next career will be that gets offshored? There are lots of US engineers that were idled when their jobs get sent to India/ Singapore, for example. Why should high school kids excel in math/science when this career path got highjacked?

When your pay is above average, your head is sticking up pretty high in the game of whack-a-mole called life.

I wonder how they're going to undercut nursing, frankly.


Yet despite your doom and gloom perception, demand in the US for engineers of several disciplines is extremely high. From 2012-2014 petroleum engineers grew 30%, mining and geological engineer growth has been up 12%, biomed 10% and industrial engineers experienced a 10% growth. As a whole, engineering jobs have experienced 7% growth. The median per hour wage for an engineer in the US is $42.

There are also a lot of occupations that are potential targets for labor shortages as the baby boomer generation begins to retire. Skill gaps in those disciplines is becoming a real issue-especially at senior and management level positions. It's not hard to do the research and determine what they are-the demographics are readily available. You don't even need a crystal ball, just a bit of common sense.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I wonder how they're going to undercut nursing, frankly.

simple:
-imports
-lots of schools for this domain (but but but it's for the children...)
-no full-time hours
it's already happening

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I wonder how they're going to undercut nursing, frankly.

simple:
-imports
-lots of schools for this domain (but but but it's for the children...)
-no full-time hours
it's already happening



It's also been tried in trucking, which is my occupation. Mexican carriers are chomping at the bit to haul our freight here in the USA. They've been booted out for now. That will drive down our wages even more if it ever happens. Then you'll hear "well, these were jobs nobody wanted anyways", or "go back to school and get your degree", etc.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12

I can see where you're trying to go with that, Pop Rivit, but political discussions are forbidden on the forum. My point is someone working in a warehouse is earning a living, but not getting paid fairly for it. I can see a stronger need for unions now than ever before in my lifetime. IMO free trade is responsible for this. Those jobs used to pay well.


There is nothing political about it. Some people feel the need to have things handed to them, others prefer to take personal responsibility and make their own fortunes (and learn from their own failures). Socialism is an economic system just as capitalism is an economic system.

Anyone can move up and better themselves-there is little or no skill involved in general labor warehouse or manufacturing work, hence workers don't get paid well. Yet rather than take responsibility for themselves and actually make things happen, some people prefer to continue riding that same pallet jack and hope that someone else will give them a raise.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12

It's also been tried in trucking, which is my occupation. Mexican carriers are chomping at the bit to haul our freight here in the USA. They've been booted out for now. That will drive down our wages even more if it ever happens. Then you'll hear "well, these were jobs nobody wanted anyways", or "go back to school and get your degree", etc.


I've heard truck drivers complaining about that in one form or another for decades. Yet the national average wage for a truck driver is much better than the national average wage overall. Narrow it down to specialized drivers who actually have some advanced skillsets (as opposed to general freight haulers) and the difference is even greater.

Not a bad career if someone is willing to work and advance their skills. Not much of a career if someone wants to sit and do nothing but drive all day.

 

[dishdude]

We did nothing to protect jobs in this country, and it seems like it started in the 1960's and got worse each decade. We allowed countries that had strict import restrictions to sell their products here (Japan) and now South Korea.

The country attacked unions, companies became more and more greedy with the top brass only caring about how much money they could squeeze out for themselves including selling US companies to foreign entities and competitors. Every merger that occurred cost jobs.

We still have some manufacturing like automobiles, but that industry is under attack. As mentioned trucking will probably happen in the next few years.

And the mentality that people don't deserve to make a decent wage is mind boggling...like they deserve to be taken advantage of like slaves as if we live in a third world country.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: dishdude


And the mentality that people don't deserve to make a decent wage is mind boggling...like they deserve to be taken advantage of like slaves as if we live in a third world country.


What gets me is the shortsightedness and assumption that the additional money a lower middle class wage slave could be making would never be spent in the economy, tied up and lost.

The top 1% are the ones that "tie up" money.

 

[javacontour]

If your staffing needs are fluid, using temps may make more sense.

When I hired folks, I had to figure 25% or more in addition to salary for benefits, (health, dental, vision, 401(k), education) employer paid payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, HR costs, etc. So my total labor cost was 1.25X the salary(or more) in corporate funny money.

It may be cheaper for Amazon to hire from a temp agency compared to hiring, providing benefits,and losing the flexibility to adjust staffing levels.

I'm not saying the temp agency isn't making a bunch of money. But it's not likely they are paying $30/hour to the staffing firm for your labor.

If you think you can find qualified staff and provide them to Amazon and pay the staff more, start your own firm and get that big cash you think the staffing firm is holding.

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: Danno
Companies profit from their employee's work, what's your point?


You are very direct and blunt in the things that you say...

Point: Stupid for Amazon. They could (if they like) pay more (?) for my DIRECT labor. . I don't get it. Possible more paperwork and turnaround possibility, sure, but. Lack of profit.

? (*please correct if I am wrong)

 

[javacontour]

I tell my kids if your job can be done with a keyboard, it can be sent anywhere in the world.

I work in IT service. The equipment is still here and largely will be here until I retire. Now it may end up in consolidated data centers if more organization embrace the cloud. But as long as the security threats are real corporations are not as likely to put things in a third party cloud and certainly unlikely to build huge data centers in places known for flaky power and shifting ethical stands.

But almost every after hours service call includes Bangalore Bob at the other end of the phone, not quite understanding my questions and comments about the activity.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
$10/hr jobs exist because there is tremendous excess supply of workers that have no high value skills. [...] So the way for US workers to earn higher labor rates/salary in today's world economy is to EARN it by first developing high value skills, investing in building high value skills and then working hard maintaining and improving them over your career.


That's a great pep talk but who has a crystal ball to see what the next career will be that gets offshored? There are lots of US engineers that were idled when their jobs get sent to India/ Singapore, for example. Why should high school kids excel in math/science when this career path got highjacked?

When your pay is above average, your head is sticking up pretty high in the game of whack-a-mole called life.

I wonder how they're going to undercut nursing, frankly.

 

[javacontour]

But who defines paid fairly?

If your job can be done by anyone, it's not likely you are going to make a bunch of money. If you won't do it, there are lines 10 deep to take your job.

So as cruel as it sounds, what cashmoney is saying holds.

When we have lots of gasoline in market, gas drops to b below $2/gallon. When you have lots of available labor, the value of labor drops in the market. Add in the effects that illegal aliens have on wages and what we see was easily predicted.

I tell my kids to pay attention in school and don't make any life destroying decisions. Don't get addicted to drugs or alcohol, don't drop out, don't have kids with a half-dozen different partners and don't get a criminal record. Many of the best paying jobs require being trustworthy. A security clearance requires a background investigation and bad credit or other bad life choices can prevent you from getting a clearance and a decent job in the defense/government sector.

Too many partied too hard when they were younger and burnt some bridges for their future.

Many end up in that mass of folks who find it difficult if not impossible to climb out of their self dug hole.

They have no one to blame but themselves.


Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: cashmoney
$10/hr jobs exist because there is tremendous excess supply of workers that have no high value skills. Guess what folks?...the world has radically changed in terms of local labor markets. It has gotten smaller economically and so capital and means of production naturally flowed to lower cost labor areas. This is an economic law like gravity and it absolutely cannot be regulated or legislated away. The US can do nothing in terms of laws/regs to make factory jobs come back. So the way for US workers to earn higher labor rates/salary in today's world economy is to EARN it by first developing high value skills, investing in building high value skills and then working hard maintaining and improving them over your career. If a person does not have the smarts or the initiative to do that then $10/hr is about what their labor is worth. You don;t have to get a university degree to do this , you can get a high value skill like welding, auto tech, HVAC, electrician, medical tech, etc. There are still plenty of ways to make a decent salary in the US but it takes a little planning, sacrifice and initiative...sadly those traits seem rare these days.


Agreed. The world where a person could make a good living packing boxes or assembling widgets is gone and won't return. Everyone has the ability to improve their skills, and there are a lot of opportunities beyond flipping burgers or pushing a pallet jack in a warehouse. Even a journeyman apprentice welder around here makes about $40,000/year.

Originally Posted By: salv
Everyone that works hard at a full time job deserves to earn a livable wage with decent benefits.


Comrade, you're certainly entitled to your belief system. But you're not entitled to a living wage-that has to be earned.



I can see where you're trying to go with that, Pop Rivit, but political discussions are forbidden on the forum. My point is someone working in a warehouse is earning a living, but not getting paid fairly for it. I can see a stronger need for unions now than ever before in my lifetime. IMO free trade is responsible for this. Those jobs used to pay well.

 

[surfstar]

By being born in the USA, you're in the top 10% of the world. And that's living at our "poverty" level.
Making $10/hr puts you in the top 4% in the world.
http://www.globalrichlist.com/

I bet over 90% of people making $10/hr in the US, have flat screen TVs and smart phones.

 

[Nick1994]

I have a few friends that have worked in the huge Amazon distribution center here in Phoenix. They aren't complainets, but they say it is awful work. Miles and miles of walking and heavy lifting, rude bosses and forcing them to work through their breaks, sometimes lunches. Often very unorganized with the way a lot of things work, including moving a package from one end of the warehouse to the other, only to find out afterwards they could have taken 2 that their schedule didn't tell them to do. Again these people aren't people to complain. They say it's a terrible place to work, luckily they don't work there anymore.