Is Subaru now an after thought company?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
To address the original question of the OP. "What has happened to Subaru"??

"Subaru and Lexus took the top spots in Kelley Blue Book's 2015 Best Resale Value Awards, which give the honor to vehicles projected to retain the most value through their first five years of ownership.

Subaru was named best overall brand and Lexus was best luxury brand."

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2015/01/subaru_lexus_top_kelley_blue_b.html




LOL
 
This thread cracks me up. It seems like as soon as any car starts gaining popularity a thread will start to bash it.

I'll continue to drive my "after thought" Subaru and enjoy every minute of it.
 
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Tomorrow here on the East coast everybody will wish they have one.

After last year's snotty Winter weather, everyone (who didn't already have one) in my hilly area wanted a 4WD/AWD for their primary vehicle. I wanted another, too.

I waited until mid-Summer for the demand to die down. No such luck, used 4WD's were still commanding large premiums over FWD variants.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

PS:
one time i drove the whole family in bad weather on a hwy and the car fishtailed on a curve and we went backwards unto the snowy bank. scary to say the least, but we made it with no injuries. later I learned that this was typical for subaru AWD. they don't tell you in their commercials. i guess it's good for rally driving.

That happened to me in my college days in my RWD vehicle. It happened again while I was a passenger in a friend's FWD vehicle.

Maybe it's just something that happens on wet ice, and when you're one wet ice, no amount of driven wheels will overcome momentum- unless you have chains or studded tires.
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
Subaru AWD is the "poor mans" AWD. Get an Audi Quattro

A friend of mine had an Audi. He credited it with making him a poor man. Since then he bought an F150 and recovered.

Full disclosure: I've never owned a Subaru, or an F150 for that matter.
 
Consumer Reports Survey....

"2014 Subaru Forester: The Most Reliable Car Today"

" This year, the title for the most reliable car has been given to the 2014 Subaru Forester."

"For the current survey, they received feedback from over a million people"

wait for it....

"The only drawback to the survey is that the 2014 Subaru Forester had been on the market for only a few weeks at the time it was taken."


http://www.modernrides.com/2014-subaru-forester-the-most-reliable-car-today
 
Originally Posted By: emg
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Common? No I don't think so. Subaru AWD is highly reliable and I have never heard an example like your story unless running on junk tires.


There was the 'ghostwalking' problem with US Outback models, which appears to be due to Subaru America raising the suspension an inch or two for the US market, which made the wheel alignment shift under load until the car became liable to fishtail on poor road surfaces when heavily loaded. Beyond that, any AWD system is at least partially RWD, so you can certainly get it to do things that you wouldn't see on an FWD car... usually when driving too fast for the conditions, though.


Suspension problem sounds interesting. Was there a recall? I'd think there would be a NHTSA safety issue there!
 
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Consumer Reports Survey....

"2014 Subaru Forester: The Most Reliable Car Today"

" This year, the title for the most reliable car has been given to the 2014 Subaru Forester."

"For the current survey, they received feedback from over a million people"

wait for it....

"The only drawback to the survey is that the 2014 Subaru Forester had been on the market for only a few weeks at the time it was taken."


http://www.modernrides.com/2014-subaru-forester-the-most-reliable-car-today





that reminds me when I bought my subaru in 2000, subaru was touted bu CR and similar as one of the leaders in reliability together with toyota and honda. Turned out to be a lie when the widespread HG (and other) issues took some time to surface.
 
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Consumer Reports Survey....

"2014 Subaru Forester: The Most Reliable Car Today"

" This year, the title for the most reliable car has been given to the 2014 Subaru Forester."

"For the current survey, they received feedback from over a million people"

wait for it....

"The only drawback to the survey is that the 2014 Subaru Forester had been on the market for only a few weeks at the time it was taken."


http://www.modernrides.com/2014-subaru-forester-the-most-reliable-car-today





Yep, that's what I get out of most of these so-called articles. "Greatest car of the year" but it's been for sale for 3 days. ??? It hasn't proven anything other than the OEM's budget for marketing.
 
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
The primary motive of this thread is the Oil burning issues. Subaru has yet to remedy the problem because it is apparent in the all new Legacy.

The oil burning on the FB was corrected in 2013.

The old EJ 2.5 NA suffered from HG leakage until it was discontinued in 2011. My 2008 had its HG replaced at 124K. It certainly could have gone longer, but I chose to repair it. 137K on the clock and there is no earthly reason it won't go 200K. I will trade it in at about that mileage.

The EJ Turbo is a semi-closed deck and never had problems.

The new FB 2.0 Turbo has no issues.

The new FB 2.5 currently has no problems the Head has a seperate cooling systejm from the block. No HG leagage of coolant is possible.

Their CVT appears to be very reliable.

Unless this has changed, no AWD can trans fer enough power to the rear wheels to push the vehicle up an incline with no traction at the front wheels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw

When it comes to safety subaru's were always a step ahead as evidenced by them being the only car company that had all vehicles pass the small overlap frontal crash test the first time.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Al
Unless this has changed, no AWD can trans fer enough power to the rear wheels to push the vehicle up an incline with no traction at the front wheels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw

My old first gen Pilot has locking center and rear differentials. I'd be surprised if it couldn't go up in RWD only. Then again it says 4WD on the back not AWD.
Originally Posted By: Al
When it comes to safety subaru's were always a step ahead as evidenced by them being the only car company that had all vehicles pass the small overlap frontal crash test the first time.

Impressive.
 
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Suspension problem sounds interesting. Was there a recall? I'd think there would be a NHTSA safety issue there!


If I remember correctly, there was a TSB which revised the alignment spec for those cars, but I don't think there was a recall. It only seemed to affect a small number of owners in bad road conditions with the car heavily loaded, and adjusting the alignment seemed to fix it for many.

Again, I'm going from memory, if you do a web search for 'outback ghostwalking' you should find the very long threads on the subject.
 
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Ed_T
So many different vehicles now offer AWD, why get saddled with a Subie? I had one and liked it (a turbo 4), but it wasn't the greatest.


Because it is an awesome AWD!


Subaru AWD is the "poor mans" AWD. Get an Audi Quattro


How "rich" do you have to be to buy an Audi Quattro? Production ended in 1991



I guess i should correct myself and say VW 4 Motion which is identical to Quattro
 
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
I guess i should correct myself and say VW 4 Motion which is identical to Quattro

And in some applications 4-motion/quattro is just FWD-based haldex.
 
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG

I guess i should correct myself and say VW 4 Motion which is identical to Quattro


Isn't 4 Motion a cheapened version of Quattro? You know. A little like what you say Subaru Symmetrical AWD is.

BTW, Audi still offers Quattro on, I believe, almost all of their models. Audi has not offered a Quattro model in years. But they do offer Quattro as an option. And I agree. Quattro is a fine AWD system. If not the finest, one of the finest. But there is a huge price difference between an Outback and an Allroad, for example. And, I'll take Subaru reliability over Audi reliability any day of the week. Don't get me wrong. I love Audi cars. But I would only buy one if I knew I could afford to drive it. Never spit in the wind. never pick a fight with a Middle East war lord. And never own an Audi out of warranty.

That's what makes your entire criticism of Subaru cars seem so, well, critical. And biased. You come on strong with a lot of severely over exaggerated claims as to the reliability of Subaru cars, and then you recommend Audi as a better alternative to Subaru AWD? Do you even see how disingenuous that appears?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
I guess i should correct myself and say VW 4 Motion which is identical to Quattro

And in some applications 4-motion/quattro is just FWD-based haldex.

And one of the Subaru systems, Active Torque Split AWD, is functionally similar to FWD "on-demand" systems like the Haldex except that the multi-plate clutch is located inside the transmission instead mounted in front of the rear diff.

http://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.aspx?WebSiteID=282&WebPageID=5964
http://www.awdwiki.com/en/subaru/
 
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SkyActivG
I guess i should correct myself and say VW 4 Motion which is identical to Quattro

And in some applications 4-motion/quattro is just FWD-based haldex.

And one of the Subaru systems, Active Torque Split AWD, is functionally similar to FWD "on-demand" systems like the Haldex except that the multi-plate clutch is located inside the transmission instead mounted in front of the rear diff.

http://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.aspx?WebSiteID=282&WebPageID=5964
http://www.awdwiki.com/en/subaru/


It maintains a 60/40 under normal conditions, hardly a FWD on demand system.

This is the description of Active Torque Split AWD, taken straight from the Subaru Canada link you provided:

"This system employs a multi-plate transfer clutch that maintains a 60/40 front/rear torque split and uses a range of sensors to automatically adjust this split on-the-fly as conditions warrant, creating more predictable handling. The system that’s linked to all Subaru models (excluding WRX) equipped with the Lineartronic® Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT), the Active Torque Split AWD places the focus on ease of operation, fuel efficiency and reliability."
 
Originally Posted By: glock19
It maintains a 60/40 under normal conditions, hardly a FWD on demand system.

Well, you're mistaken.

First, note that it says: "This system employs a multi-plate transfer clutch..."
That is an on-demand system, i.e. no center differential like their other systems. Those are the only two ways to provides AWD or full-time 4WD for the road.

Second, in principle an on-demand system can only provide no more than 50% to the rear because it can't disconnect the front. That balance is further affected by the weight distribution since an axle's tractive effort is proportional to the weight on it, and equal friction is assumed for the specs. Whatever is left out of that 50% is lost due to modulation of the multiplate clutch.
 
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: glock19
It maintains a 60/40 under normal conditions, hardly a FWD on demand system.

Well, you're mistaken.

First, note that it says: "This system employs a multi-plate transfer clutch..."
That is an on-demand system, i.e. no center differential like their other systems. Those are the only two ways to provides AWD or full-time 4WD for the road.

Second, in principle an on-demand system can only provide no more than 50% to the rear because it can't disconnect the front. That balance is further affected by the weight distribution since an axle's tractive effort is proportional to the weight on it, and equal friction is assumed for the specs. Whatever is left out of that 50% is lost due to modulation of the multiplate clutch.


I'm not saying it's not "on-demand". Yes, it detects slippage and transfers power but even before that slippage it's operating at a 60/40 split (hence my hardly FWD comment).

As far as the power transfer, you're mistaken (at least according to Subaru).

"An electronically managed continuously variable transfer clutch actively manages torque distribution in response to driving conditions, acceleration, deceleration and cornering. Slippage at the front or rear wheels causes torque to transfer (up to 100%) to the opposite set of wheels."

Link to Subaru media
 
There was an old thread on a Subie forum where they were able to track how much torque was transferred to front and back. During acceleration it could send over 90% to the rear.
 
Originally Posted By: glock19
... hardly a FWD on demand system.


Originally Posted By: glock19
I'm not saying it's not "on-demand".


Hmm, OK, I see it's a definition issue. The point, in this thread, is that it works just like a Haldex Gen5.

I would classify any system with a multiplate clutch used to drive the rear axle instead of a center differential as "on-demand." It doesn't mean literally that it only comes into to play when the front wheels slip like the old Honda and Toyota systems. Performance numbers as to torque transfer have to be measured under controlled conditions, specifically a flat road with equal traction all around. Under slippage, any numbers can be bandied about. I don't buy that Subaru are doing anything magical here, they have the same hardware opportunities and limitations that Haldex have.

http://www.rubicon-trail.com/4WD101/difference_4WD_awd.html
Quote:
Automatic AWD system is the newest kid on the block. PR agency generated names like "Real Time 4WD", "intelligent AWD" or "active AWD" are hiding the fact that automatic AWD is essentially a sophisticated 2WD system. Automatic AWD is NOT powering all 4 wheels all the time. Only on rare occasions all 4 wheels will be powered very briefly. Since AWD is only engaged on rare occasions, sometimes automatic AWD is falsely called "part time 4WD". Engineers refer to this system as an "on demand system".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
Reliable years of Subaru Outback?
2 3 4
Replies
62
Views
6K
Al
S
2013 Subaru 2.5L oil burn
2 3 4
Replies
60
Views
8K
Overfill
Delta
Quick Thoughts: 2023 Subaru Outback 2.5 Limited
2 3
Replies
55
Views
4K
SubieRubyRoo
Propflux01
Hard Start After Setting.
Replies
10
Views
931
Gyro Gearloose
Blake1107
Leaky Oil Filter Thoughts?
2
Replies
38
Views
2K
Blake1107
Back
Top