5W40 HD Oils

[rdevans89]

Hello all, first day posting on BITOG. I have a 2014 Star Bolt and live in the Seattle area. After much research and reading the oil 101 on this site I believe one of the 5w-40 HD oils is really good for my application and climate. There are a few choices, the Rotella T6, Chevron Delo syn 5w-40, and the valvoline super blue 5w-40. Opinions or any UOA evidence that one is better than the other? They are all very affordable for me. I only ride about 750 to 1000 miles a season (march through October usually).
Thanks.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Considering how few miles you put on and that you don't ride it during winter, I'd say save your money and just run mineral HDEO such as Rotella T 15w-40. It is typically more shear stable than the 5w-40 oils in a shared sump duty.

 

[rdevans89]

It's the flow at start up that I like the 5 instead of the 15. We have many mornings here even in summer that are about 45 degrees give or take.

 

[EdwardC]

I'm not particularly familiar with some of the options you listed, but I would lean towards the Rotella T6 because of the JASO-MA rating. I did a quick Google and I think the Star Bolt is a wet clutch, so that could be advantageous.


That's not to say that the other options aren't JASO-MA(2), I just don't know.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Honestly, 45F isn't a problem for a 15w-40 oil.

But if you really want a 5w-40, you can look through all the UOAs we have here on BITOG. There is no general consensus. They're all good. I think Rotella T6 5w-40 has the most samples, probably followed by Delo and Delvac.

 

[4wheeldog]

At 45 degrees, 5W actually doesn't flow any better than 15W. It would have to be colder, before there was much of an advantage.

All the major 15W/40s and 5W/40 are comparable to each other int the same grade. I use 5W40 in several motorcycles (I actually ride down to about 20 degrees), and I admit that I buy whichever is one sale....Delo and Rotella being what I wind up with most often.

 

[Clevy]

I'm using rotella 15w-40 in my highly modified Harley.
When I had my old 1100 v-star I found that shifting was notchy after a couple thousand miles with a 5w-40 hdeo.
Your bike has a positive displacement pump. So at start up it pumps the exact same volume of oil whether you've got a 5w-40 or 15w-40 in there,the only change is pressure,so you're concerns aren't valid.
5w-40 syns tend to shear faster in a shared sump bike which will affect shift quality in less miles.
If you only ride 1000 miles a season synthetic is a waste anyway since I'm sure you'll be changing it at the seasons end.
And a 5w-40 won't be any thinner at start up at temps suitable for riding,unless you plan on studding the tires and riding in the snow. .

 

[3800Series]

Iv contacted rotella in the past and from what I heard all there oils are the same except the base stocks. Might as well go for the cheapest.

 

[rdevans89]

I guess I don't understand, reading the oil 101 on this site it states that the 0w and 5w oils flow better in cold temps and are to be preferred over 10-15-20. The second number is the important part for hot engine. I know we all overthink this. The small price difference is not a factor. I could very well run the 15w-40 in the summer but feel I would have to change to the 5w-40 for fall and winter. Was looking for an oil I could use all year.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: rdevans89
I guess I don't understand, reading the oil 101 on this site it states that the 0w and 5w oils flow better in cold temps and are to be preferred over 10-15-20.

In general, it's true. But there are tradeoffs when it comes to shared sump applications, like in your motorcycle. A typical 5w-40 HDEO oil tends to be less shear stable and may result in poor shifting sooner rather than later. Alas, you can certainly try it out. 1,000 miles is nothing.

What we are saying is that 45F isn't really what we'd consider cold enough where a 15w-40 oil would be inappropriate and detrimental to your engine.

Quote:
I know we all overthink this.

You've got that right.

 

[EdwardC]

One difference is that wet clutch motorcycles seem to shear the oil faster than a typical car/diesel, so a lot of us change the oil way early due to poor shift feel since shift quality seems to be more related to viscosity. Plus, being an air cooled bike, you may have more variation in operating temp (thinning the oil further in hot summer temps). (The RT6 has a lower operating viscosity than Triple T)

The 15W-40 oils seem to shear less than the 0W/5W oils.

I think most of us would agree that the price isn't a huge factor, but when you consider the cons of using the synthetic (shears faster necessitating sooner change, no long drain benefits, higher cost), it makes sense to some of use to go with the 15W.

Typing in the viscosities of Triple T and T6 into the widman grapher: http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_Canada_Shell_Rotella_T6_5W-40_%28CJ-4%29_%28en-CA%29_TDS.pdf

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T_Triple_Protection_15W-40_%28CJ-4%29_%28en-US%29_TDS.pdf

At 5C (41F), the viscosity of the 15W40 is 1011 cSt and the 5W40 is 540 cSt.

I would go ahead and try the 5W40 and see how your shifting feels. I would still stick with Rotella since it's JASO MA/MA2 rated.

 

[Robenstein]

45F is not what many in the oil industry consider "cold". When we are down in the single digits, that is where the 5w oils really shine versus their 15w brothers.

I would run the 15w40 and be done with it in that bike. The 5w40 weight oils do need changing sooner because as mentioned on a shared sump system, the transmission gears really beat up the oil.

 

[rdevans89]

The other point that was discussed in oil 101 is the fact that the thinner oil actually cools an engine better due to increased flow, along with slightly more HP and increased fuel economy. It's a hard concept to accept, I,m in my mid fifty,s and was old "schooled" into thinking that thicker is better. We recently bought a new Subaru forester xt turbo. The recommended oil is 0W-20. I was like NO WAY. But after reading the article I now understand this more. I think that part of the problem is the old number system that fools people like me into thinking the 0w and 5w oils are just that: sewing machine oil. Anyway I'm going to use the Rotella T6, change it once a year and see how it goes.

 

[Robenstein]

Of course there is more to it then that. You must also consider the fact that your engine is air cooled and built with looser tolerances than your liquid cooled Subaru. Meaning that when it was made, it was made for thicker oil. Air cooled engines are more demanding on oils, especially a V twin that starves the rear cylinder of airflow.

So shear can be important. I know that on the Triumph forums, a few guys with air cooled bonnevilles tried using Rotella T6 5w40 for the recommended 6k mile oil change interval, but the engine and trans chewed it up into a lower 30 weight oil and at a hot idle, it had low enough oil pressure to tickle the oil light. This was around the 4k mile mark.

Yamaha for years recommended their very shear stable Yamalube 20w40 for their air cooled engines, and some of the current cruisers still have it in their manuals as a recommended viscosity.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: rdevans89
I guess I don't understand, reading the oil 101 on this site it states that the 0w and 5w oils flow better in cold temps and are to be preferred over 10-15-20.


You do understand right...

API ranks the first number (5) and the letter W from the newest to the
oldest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up...

0w

5W

10W

15W

20W

If you wish to employ the latest in oil technology then you want an one with an API
rank of 0W...

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Considering how few miles you put on and that you don't ride it during winter, I'd say save your money and just run mineral HDEO such as Rotella T 15w-40. It is typically more shear stable than the 5w-40 oils in a shared sump duty.



The difference between synthetics and mineral is apparent especially during 45º start up temps...

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: rdevans89
The other point that was discussed in oil 101 is the fact that the thinner oil actually cools an engine better due to increased flow, along with slightly more HP and increased fuel economy.


True...

At operating temps the difference between a 30 and 40 is about 2.6 cSt... thats not 2.6
cSt thinner or thicker... the measurement is 2.6 cSt in more flow... and 2.6 cSt in more
flow doesn't risk increase wear... our engines don't operate with in a 2.6 cSt range of
risk... choosing oils that flow more are smart because they will...

1)increase HP at the rear wheel
2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...
3)decrease over all operating temps...
4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...

Oil drag is real

 

[Stewart Fan]

Originally Posted By: rdevans89
It's the flow at start up that I like the 5 instead of the 15. We have many mornings here even in summer that are about 45 degrees give or take.


The average low between May and October is 52°

You're overthinking this.

I have three bikes that are happy as can be on Rotella 15w-40

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Considering how few miles you put on and that you don't ride it during winter, I'd say save your money and just run mineral HDEO such as Rotella T 15w-40. It is typically more shear stable than the 5w-40 oils in a shared sump duty.



The difference between synthetics and mineral is apparent especially during 45º start up temps...

Depends on what you mean by synthetic. The oil the OP is talking about is a Group III synthetic basestock which is just highly refined mineral oil.

 

[Atesz792]

No way that pic was taken at 45°...
Maybe if that's some heavy monograde?