Honda Fit CVT

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: philipp10
DCT’s as efficient as CVT”s? Not true. CVT’s (and Hybirds) are more efficient because they keep the engine at the optimum torque for any given load and RPM 100% of the time. A manual or automatic transmission with discrete gearing can only hit that sweet spot at one point in each gear. Keeping the motor loaded just right is key to peak fuel efficiency. I am not saying that CVT’s are the perfect answer since we really do not know the longevity just yet but they definitely win out in simplicity and costs over the hybrid systems on the market now.


CVT's are meant for the best MPG's possible, NOT meant for performance driving like a Dual Clutch is.

Name one High performance Car out there that has a CVT? Name One. mmmmmm Good Luck with that.

CVT = better MPG, NOT a better driving experience. Bottom line. If your not a "Performance" guy, or woman, then you wont care anyway haha.


Jeff


Honestly Jeff...you don't seem to realize that it's not only your opinion that people find a bit silly.....it's the WAY you put it.

Let's see if I can get you to grasp why you are obnoxious.

You made basically two rude and ignorant statements.
1. "CVT's are garbage"
2. "Stupid to even have a CVT"

Both of those statements are false.....but more to the point...very much a put-off and rude.

You could have said something like..."I don't care for CVT's. They don't function well in terms of performance. Some quality issues have also come up in some models...and that is a concern".

But...you are who you are...which seems to be somebody that likes to enflame the discussion for no apparent reason other than ego.


I see your point, but far from being rude. It is what it is.

I say they are Garbage from my perspective only. That is not being rude, that is based on my opinion of the transmission and YES I have owned a car with a CVT adn will never ever again.

What is Stupid on a CVT is to have paddle shifters. There are no shifts so that is Stupid to simulate them to make them feel like something they are not?

I had 2 CVT Transmission fail within 45K miles on a Honda I had. So I dont think much of them. Though someone commented on my VW in a way that would seem that Hondas are more reliable well not to me. My VW has never left me stranded. A Honda Has. Several Times.

So forgive my bitterness if I am not on the "Honda or CVT Bandwagon".


Jeff

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
realistically if you want to do any performance driving you need to be on a racetrack. Its not like I can find an empty road around here. Suppose I could get on the road at 3 am...lol. BTW, a CVT in theory should beat out a DCT as the power is applied on a constant and consistent manner. The DCT will win out in a LeMan's style of race. But pure 1/4 mile times are faster with the CVT.

And no, CVT's are not in racecars...nor are Tesla type systems even though they are very quick. We all realize CVT's are not for high torque applications. That may change over time....will you keep up?


So your saying a CVT is quicker in a 1/4 mile compared to what? I think you are wrong. If you take your own car A Honda Fit with the manual transmission vs the CVT (the only 2 transmissions offered in this car) and you went to the drag strip I seriously doubt the CVT will win. haha.

CVT's do serve a purpose. They work well in Hybrid cars and fuel efficient cars. I am not into either. To each their own.


Jeff

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
What is Stupid on a CVT is to have paddle shifters. There are no shifts so that is Stupid to simulate them to make them feel like something they are not?


I disagree. Using the paddle shifters forces the CVT to hold a specific ratio. This can be helpful in certain situations such as descending a mountain without burning up the brakes.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
What is Stupid on a CVT is to have paddle shifters. There are no shifts so that is Stupid to simulate them to make them feel like something they are not?


I never have understood this mentality; I'm not sure how giving any amount of control to the driver, versus not, is "stupid".

 

[OneEyeJack]

Originally Posted By: supton
Pretty sure the Tesla dispenses with transmission altogether. As does the Prius series. Two different ends of the spectrum.

Not sure that you can get a manual transmission in any high end sports car anymore. But most(?) drivers say they still want a stick. Despite knowing the "flappy paddle" travesty is faster. Lightning fast shifts are nice, but for some reason the clutch/stick interface is more pleasing.


The Prius has a planetary transmission and it's the secret to the efficient real world performance achieved by the Prius. And it's a long lasting transmission because it never shifts gears and has no friction media or internal disc's or clutches at all. There is an external clutch but it's always engaged and is there to absorb shocks only. Also the fact they they were able to eliminate all shifting and eliminate the reverse gear helps to keep things simple. You can expect the Prius transmission to last as long as the car with no scheduled maintenance. Other transmissions are a potential problem waiting to happen and an expensive one at that.

 

[philipp10]

what model Honda's with CVT's failed? Just like to know for future reference.

 

[philipp10]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: philipp10
DCT’s as efficient as CVT”s? Not true. CVT’s (and Hybirds) are more efficient because they keep the engine at the optimum torque for any given load and RPM 100% of the time. A manual or automatic transmission with discrete gearing can only hit that sweet spot at one point in each gear. Keeping the motor loaded just right is key to peak fuel efficiency. I am not saying that CVT’s are the perfect answer since we really do not know the longevity just yet but they definitely win out in simplicity and costs over the hybrid systems on the market now.


CVT's are meant for the best MPG's possible, NOT meant for performance driving like a Dual Clutch is.

Name one High performance Car out there that has a CVT? Name One. mmmmmm Good Luck with that.

CVT = better MPG, NOT a better driving experience. Bottom line. If your not a "Performance" guy, or woman, then you wont care anyway haha.


Jeff


Honestly Jeff...you don't seem to realize that it's not only your opinion that people find a bit silly.....it's the WAY you put it.

Let's see if I can get you to grasp why you are obnoxious.

You made basically two rude and ignorant statements.
1. "CVT's are garbage"
2. "Stupid to even have a CVT"

Both of those statements are false.....but more to the point...very much a put-off and rude.

You could have said something like..."I don't care for CVT's. They don't function well in terms of performance. Some quality issues have also come up in some models...and that is a concern".

But...you are who you are...which seems to be somebody that likes to enflame the discussion for no apparent reason other than ego.


I see your point, but far from being rude. It is what it is.

I say they are Garbage from my perspective only. That is not being rude, that is based on my opinion of the transmission and YES I have owned a car with a CVT adn will never ever again.

What is Stupid on a CVT is to have paddle shifters. There are no shifts so that is Stupid to simulate them to make them feel like something they are not?

I had 2 CVT Transmission fail within 45K miles on a Honda I had. So I dont think much of them. Though someone commented on my VW in a way that would seem that Hondas are more reliable well not to me. My VW has never left me stranded. A Honda Has. Several Times.

So forgive my bitterness if I am not on the "Honda or CVT Bandwagon".


Jeff


Year and model would be nice

 

[SwampSurvivor]

2 Cvt failures in 45k miles ... sure it's not a Nissan?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
2 Cvt failures in 45k miles ... sure it's not a Nissan?


The recent Nissan CVTs aren't even that bad. Sure, the early Murano ones were bad and some of the ones in the Rogue and 4-cyl Altimas, but they haven't been offenders for a while. Even the recent "shudder" issues are far from catastrophic.

 

[Stregone]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
CVT's are meant for the best MPG's possible, NOT meant for performance driving like a Dual Clutch is.

Name one High performance Car out there that has a CVT? Name One. mmmmmm Good Luck with that.

CVT = better MPG, NOT a better driving experience. Bottom line. If your not a "Performance" guy, or woman, then you wont care anyway haha.


Jeff

It was used in an F1 car and very quickly banned.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/05/03/banned-continuously-variable-transmission-cvt/

 

[OneEyeJack]

This thread started with the Fit and one certainly would not confuse the Fit with a high performance sports car.

I'd choose the 6-speed but I've got to say that Honda did a good job matching a CVT to a fast spinning little engine and the result so far is good fuel mileage. Reliability is still to be determined.

The Audi A4 I referred to is a shop queen because of their version of a CVT. I think CVT's are the future but they are not quite there, yet. In the mean time I like shifting my own gears.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I think CVT's are the future but they are not quite there, yet.


For this I'm thankful for early adopters. Not that I want a CVT but if they get it figured out, I could reap the rewards when they get "cheap" and reliable.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
DCT’s as efficient as CVT”s? Not true. CVT’s (and Hybirds) are more efficient because they keep the engine at the optimum torque for any given load and RPM 100% of the time. A manual or automatic transmission with discrete gearing can only hit that sweet spot at one point in each gear. Keeping the motor loaded just right is key to peak fuel efficiency. I am not saying that CVT’s are the perfect answer since we really do not know the longevity just yet but they definitely win out in simplicity and costs over the hybrid systems on the market now.


You would be incorrect. As far as the transmission itself, MTXs are still the most efficient followed closely by DCT. CVTs are a fair amount behind in losses. CVTs are an improvement over torque converter ATXs as far as losses/efficiency.

 

[philipp10]

there are two types of efficiency here. Efficiency of the transmission by itself and efficiency of the engine transmission combo. A CVT by itself does have higher losses than a geared transmission. But as a engine/trans combo, I think the CVT's win out. CVT's are all about optimum engine rpm/load in all situations.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Miller88
2 Cvt failures in 45k miles ... sure it's not a Nissan?


The recent Nissan CVTs aren't even that bad. Sure, the early Murano ones were bad and some of the ones in the Rogue and 4-cyl Altimas, but they haven't been offenders for a while. Even the recent "shudder" issues are far from catastrophic.


Most of the consumer reviews of the new Nissan products are that the CVT keeps failing.

Oddly enough, I know a few people with the early Muranos that ran them to 6 digit mileage without the CVT failing.

 

[philipp10]

Interesting...your going tom ruin Jeff's day with that last statement in the article where they saiod, CVT's were several seconds faster than conventional trans....

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
there are two types of efficiency here. Efficiency of the transmission by itself and efficiency of the engine transmission combo. A CVT by itself does have higher losses than a geared transmission. But as a engine/trans combo, I think the CVT's win out. CVT's are all about optimum engine rpm/load in all situations.


That is from engineering. They go with the CVT because it is the most efficient automatic. If engineers wanted to make their most efficient version with a DCT or MTX, it would win out because the losses are noticeably less than a CVT.

But like stated previously, some manufacturers avoid DCTs because some people don't like the feel and don't understand why it feels different and of course fewer people can drive MTXs now days.

 

[OneEyeJack]

For efficiency, that is keeping the internal combustion engine running at its most efficient speed is done better by the Prius planetary gearbox and 2 electric motors then by any CVT. The fact that the Prius gearbox never shifts gears and has no internal disc's, clutches or other friction devices and no reverse gear and only a few moving parts is a big plus. It's a simple, elegant solution to the problem of getting down the road using as little fuel as possible.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
what model Honda's with CVT's failed? Just like to know for future reference.


Honda Insight.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
Interesting...your going tom ruin Jeff's day with that last statement in the article where they saiod, CVT's were several seconds faster than conventional trans....


Show me the proof.


Jeff