Highway vs. City Driving OCIs
- Thread starter camrydriver111
- Start date
- Status
Honda's only variables are oil temperature and rpm. This was written over a decade ago so things may have changed. We know that GM counts engine revolutions, in addition to oil temp.
If the oil temp is above or below 80c, there is a deterioration factor applied that is up to 3 times the normal value. High temperature operation is worse than low-temp/short operations in Honda's paper. Short trips are not that bad, as long as the oil stays near 80c.
My Accord would go approx 12k miles to 0% on the highway, but only 4k towing in the mountains, for example. Cold, short trips would be 4,800 miles.
It's worth a read at only 6 pages.
If the oil temp is above or below 80c, there is a deterioration factor applied that is up to 3 times the normal value. High temperature operation is worse than low-temp/short operations in Honda's paper. Short trips are not that bad, as long as the oil stays near 80c.
My Accord would go approx 12k miles to 0% on the highway, but only 4k towing in the mountains, for example. Cold, short trips would be 4,800 miles.
It's worth a read at only 6 pages.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
100% highway ----- 10K
50% / 50% -------- 7500
100% city --------- 5000
For out of warranty vehicles, thats what I do. Never a problem and the engines outlast the cars.
100% highway ----- 10K
50% / 50% -------- 7500
100% city --------- 5000
For out of warranty vehicles, thats what I do. Never a problem and the engines outlast the cars.
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Honda: Civic R18 engine block cracking from 06-09, extended warranties for all vehicles.
V6 engine excessive oil consumption in 08-13 models, class action lawsuit resulting in extended warranty for 8 years.
Toyota: 2.4L 2AZ-FE engine 06-11: excessive oil consumption, extended warranties for all cars involved. Class action lawsuit pending.
1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster, no extended warranties.
1ZZ-FE 1.8L engine 98-03: excessive oil consumption, cracks develop in the ECU for 05-08 models leading to a recall, over 1million cars affected.
This is just a partial list of engine related issues, I could go on and on about smaller things and lets not forget the biggest recall of all: unintended acceleration. Reputation means nothing.
Reputation means nothing to you, but to buying public it means everything.
Just look at used car market, Honda and Toyota usually retain higher resale value than other brands. And this one of the reason people buy new Honda and Toyota, because they know that they can get back a good percentage of the MSRP when time to trade in or sell it themselves.
Why Camry, Accord, Corolla, Civic are 4 of the top 10 selling cars of the last 10-15 years ? they are not better than many other brands/models in term of performance/handling ?
Honda: Civic R18 engine block cracking from 06-09, extended warranties for all vehicles.
V6 engine excessive oil consumption in 08-13 models, class action lawsuit resulting in extended warranty for 8 years.
Toyota: 2.4L 2AZ-FE engine 06-11: excessive oil consumption, extended warranties for all cars involved. Class action lawsuit pending.
1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster, no extended warranties.
1ZZ-FE 1.8L engine 98-03: excessive oil consumption, cracks develop in the ECU for 05-08 models leading to a recall, over 1million cars affected.
This is just a partial list of engine related issues, I could go on and on about smaller things and lets not forget the biggest recall of all: unintended acceleration. Reputation means nothing.
Reputation means nothing to you, but to buying public it means everything.
Just look at used car market, Honda and Toyota usually retain higher resale value than other brands. And this one of the reason people buy new Honda and Toyota, because they know that they can get back a good percentage of the MSRP when time to trade in or sell it themselves.
Why Camry, Accord, Corolla, Civic are 4 of the top 10 selling cars of the last 10-15 years ? they are not better than many other brands/models in term of performance/handling ?
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Toyota: 2.4L 2AZ-FE engine 06-11: excessive oil consumption, extended warranties for all cars involved. Class action lawsuit pending.
It's the 07-11 model years, not 06.
Toyota: 2.4L 2AZ-FE engine 06-11: excessive oil consumption, extended warranties for all cars involved. Class action lawsuit pending.
It's the 07-11 model years, not 06.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Honda: Civic R18 engine block cracking from 06-09, extended warranties for all vehicles.
V6 engine excessive oil consumption in 08-13 models, class action lawsuit resulting in extended warranty for 8 years.
Toyota: 2.4L 2AZ-FE engine 06-11: excessive oil consumption, extended warranties for all cars involved. Class action lawsuit pending.
1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster, no extended warranties.
1ZZ-FE 1.8L engine 98-03: excessive oil consumption, cracks develop in the ECU for 05-08 models leading to a recall, over 1million cars affected.
This is just a partial list of engine related issues, I could go on and on about smaller things and lets not forget the biggest recall of all: unintended acceleration. Reputation means nothing.
Reputation means nothing to you, but to buying public it means everything.
Just look at used car market, Honda and Toyota usually retain higher resale value than other brands. And this one of the reason people buy new Honda and Toyota, because they know that they can get back a good percentage of the MSRP when time to trade in or sell it themselves.
Why Camry, Accord, Corolla, Civic are 4 of the top 10 selling cars of the last 10-15 years ? they are not better than many other brands/models in term of performance/handling ?
The buying public are stupid. Herd mentality doesn't mean they're always correct hence all the class action lawsuits. Fact of the matter still remains, all car manufacturers have major design flaws including the ones with the highest reputation.
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Honda: Civic R18 engine block cracking from 06-09, extended warranties for all vehicles.
V6 engine excessive oil consumption in 08-13 models, class action lawsuit resulting in extended warranty for 8 years.
Toyota: 2.4L 2AZ-FE engine 06-11: excessive oil consumption, extended warranties for all cars involved. Class action lawsuit pending.
1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster, no extended warranties.
1ZZ-FE 1.8L engine 98-03: excessive oil consumption, cracks develop in the ECU for 05-08 models leading to a recall, over 1million cars affected.
This is just a partial list of engine related issues, I could go on and on about smaller things and lets not forget the biggest recall of all: unintended acceleration. Reputation means nothing.
Reputation means nothing to you, but to buying public it means everything.
Just look at used car market, Honda and Toyota usually retain higher resale value than other brands. And this one of the reason people buy new Honda and Toyota, because they know that they can get back a good percentage of the MSRP when time to trade in or sell it themselves.
Why Camry, Accord, Corolla, Civic are 4 of the top 10 selling cars of the last 10-15 years ? they are not better than many other brands/models in term of performance/handling ?
The buying public are stupid. Herd mentality doesn't mean they're always correct hence all the class action lawsuits. Fact of the matter still remains, all car manufacturers have major design flaws including the ones with the highest reputation.
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Hondas should be changed at 5% OLM at the latest, not 0%. Honda's own PDF says this: http://www.sporthonda.com/Dealersites/7154/images/pdf/mms.pdf
Honda's own Technical doc about the OLM system says that there is upto 15% error rate as well.
http://hondakarma.com/attachments/engine-oil-deterioration-monitoring-system-pdf.12590/
Section 5.2:
Quote:
The Maximum degree of error measured as the calculated value for the oil life compared to the actual level of deterioration was 15%.
So realistically, if you change at 0% with a 15% error rate, you could be 20% overdue. I personally change the minute it hits 15% because oil is so cheap anyways.
That's why I have a nice big buffer with my amsoil signature series. The MM is based on regular oil
Hondas should be changed at 5% OLM at the latest, not 0%. Honda's own PDF says this: http://www.sporthonda.com/Dealersites/7154/images/pdf/mms.pdf
Honda's own Technical doc about the OLM system says that there is upto 15% error rate as well.
http://hondakarma.com/attachments/engine-oil-deterioration-monitoring-system-pdf.12590/
Section 5.2:
Quote:
The Maximum degree of error measured as the calculated value for the oil life compared to the actual level of deterioration was 15%.
So realistically, if you change at 0% with a 15% error rate, you could be 20% overdue. I personally change the minute it hits 15% because oil is so cheap anyways.
That's why I have a nice big buffer with my amsoil signature series. The MM is based on regular oil
In my owners manual for my Buick, it says that if the change oil light doesn't come on, then the oil must be changed once a year (and doesn't give any mileage intervals in the manual) ... basically I think it's possible for the change oil light to never come on ...
seems kind of pointless to me to have it then lol, so I just change it about every 5k, maybe a little longer if I did a lot of highway driving.
seems kind of pointless to me to have it then lol, so I just change it about every 5k, maybe a little longer if I did a lot of highway driving.
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Hondas should be changed at 5% OLM at the latest, not 0%. Honda's own PDF says this: http://www.sporthonda.com/Dealersites/7154/images/pdf/mms.pdf
Honda's own Technical doc about the OLM system says that there is upto 15% error rate as well.
http://hondakarma.com/attachments/engine-oil-deterioration-monitoring-system-pdf.12590/
Section 5.2:
Quote:
The Maximum degree of error measured as the calculated value for the oil life compared to the actual level of deterioration was 15%.
So realistically, if you change at 0% with a 15% error rate, you could be 20% overdue. I personally change the minute it hits 15% because oil is so cheap anyways.
That's why I have a nice big buffer with my amsoil signature series.
+1
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Hondas should be changed at 5% OLM at the latest, not 0%. Honda's own PDF says this: http://www.sporthonda.com/Dealersites/7154/images/pdf/mms.pdf
Honda's own Technical doc about the OLM system says that there is upto 15% error rate as well.
http://hondakarma.com/attachments/engine-oil-deterioration-monitoring-system-pdf.12590/
Section 5.2:
Quote:
The Maximum degree of error measured as the calculated value for the oil life compared to the actual level of deterioration was 15%.
So realistically, if you change at 0% with a 15% error rate, you could be 20% overdue. I personally change the minute it hits 15% because oil is so cheap anyways.
That's why I have a nice big buffer with my amsoil signature series.
+1
I've been letting my engine warm up for about 10 minutes this winter in an effort to boil off the moisture.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I've been letting my engine warm up for about 10 minutes this winter in an effort to boil off the moisture.
Or you could just... drive it...
I've been letting my engine warm up for about 10 minutes this winter in an effort to boil off the moisture.
Or you could just... drive it...
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
The buying public are stupid. Herd mentality doesn't mean they're always correct hence all the class action lawsuits.
Don't be so hard on yourself, you're part of the buying public too. And class action suits are herd mentality...you have to agree to be herded into the class.
The buying public are stupid. Herd mentality doesn't mean they're always correct hence all the class action lawsuits.
Don't be so hard on yourself, you're part of the buying public too. And class action suits are herd mentality...you have to agree to be herded into the class.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
The buying public are stupid. Herd mentality doesn't mean they're always correct hence all the class action lawsuits.
Don't be so hard on yourself, you're part of the buying public too. And class action suits are herd mentality...you have to agree to be herded into the class.
Nope, I'm not part of the general buying public because I've never bought a new car before. I always wait to see what issues each car ends up with before buying used. Class action lawsuits is the result of herd mentality leading people off the cliff and getting burned by new cars. It has nothing to do with popularity.
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
The buying public are stupid. Herd mentality doesn't mean they're always correct hence all the class action lawsuits.
Don't be so hard on yourself, you're part of the buying public too. And class action suits are herd mentality...you have to agree to be herded into the class.
Nope, I'm not part of the general buying public because I've never bought a new car before. I always wait to see what issues each car ends up with before buying used. Class action lawsuits is the result of herd mentality leading people off the cliff and getting burned by new cars. It has nothing to do with popularity.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I've been letting my engine warm up for about 10 minutes this winter in an effort to boil off the moisture.
Or you could just... drive it...
Or it could be easier if Merk would quit taking on the trolling roll at times.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I've been letting my engine warm up for about 10 minutes this winter in an effort to boil off the moisture.
Or you could just... drive it...
Or it could be easier if Merk would quit taking on the trolling roll at times.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I would base it on the amount of fuel consumed. You are burning more fuel in city driving. You are also burning more fuel when short tripping, because the engine is running below operating temp.
What is your car's recommended OCI in ideal (non-extreme) conditions? What is your average MPG at 100% hwy? What is your average MPG at 100% city? Answer these, and I'll tell you what your city OCI should be.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
THE Answer was given a while ago; nobody bothered to read it though.
Fuel consumed automatically takes in to account city, highway, severe, cold starts etc etc etc
I would base it on the amount of fuel consumed. You are burning more fuel in city driving. You are also burning more fuel when short tripping, because the engine is running below operating temp.
What is your car's recommended OCI in ideal (non-extreme) conditions? What is your average MPG at 100% hwy? What is your average MPG at 100% city? Answer these, and I'll tell you what your city OCI should be.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
THE Answer was given a while ago; nobody bothered to read it though.
Fuel consumed automatically takes in to account city, highway, severe, cold starts etc etc etc
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I would base it on the amount of fuel consumed. You are burning more fuel in city driving. You are also burning more fuel when short tripping, because the engine is running below operating temp.
What is your car's recommended OCI in ideal (non-extreme) conditions? What is your average MPG at 100% hwy? What is your average MPG at 100% city? Answer these, and I'll tell you what your city OCI should be.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
THE Answer was given a while ago; nobody bothered to read it though.
Fuel consumed automatically takes in to account city, highway, severe, cold starts etc etc etc
As far as I know my OLM (BMWs condition based service) is supposed to take account of fuel burnt. It shows distance remaining to oil change, but the OLM advances faster than the odometer. I drove ~9k km on oil, but according to OLM I drove ~11.5k km. So according to the OLM it's not a huge difference.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I would base it on the amount of fuel consumed. You are burning more fuel in city driving. You are also burning more fuel when short tripping, because the engine is running below operating temp.
What is your car's recommended OCI in ideal (non-extreme) conditions? What is your average MPG at 100% hwy? What is your average MPG at 100% city? Answer these, and I'll tell you what your city OCI should be.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
THE Answer was given a while ago; nobody bothered to read it though.
Fuel consumed automatically takes in to account city, highway, severe, cold starts etc etc etc
As far as I know my OLM (BMWs condition based service) is supposed to take account of fuel burnt. It shows distance remaining to oil change, but the OLM advances faster than the odometer. I drove ~9k km on oil, but according to OLM I drove ~11.5k km. So according to the OLM it's not a huge difference.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I've been letting my engine warm up for about 10 minutes this winter in an effort to boil off the moisture.
In California??? I start my engines, put my seat belt on and drive. As for local or hyw miles, it makes no difference to me. I do 10K OCIs regardless. Have been doing this since I started using M1 oils in the 70s, and has worked very well in all types of engines. Also if my cars had OLMs I would no doubt ignore the thing.
I've been letting my engine warm up for about 10 minutes this winter in an effort to boil off the moisture.
In California??? I start my engines, put my seat belt on and drive. As for local or hyw miles, it makes no difference to me. I do 10K OCIs regardless. Have been doing this since I started using M1 oils in the 70s, and has worked very well in all types of engines. Also if my cars had OLMs I would no doubt ignore the thing.
Last edited:
"1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster"
My daughter has an 02 camry wth that engine I did the valve cover gaskets, expecting the worst, and it was close to brand new in there at 120k miles. I think it is one of their best engines based on my experience around it. More and more I learn to not follow the hype.
My daughter has an 02 camry wth that engine I did the valve cover gaskets, expecting the worst, and it was close to brand new in there at 120k miles. I think it is one of their best engines based on my experience around it. More and more I learn to not follow the hype.
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
"1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster"
My daughter has an 02 camry wth that engine I did the valve cover gaskets, expecting the worst, and it was close to brand new in there at 120k miles. I think it is one of their best engines based on my experience around it. More and more I learn to not follow the hype.
Did you buy it new or used? What oil and OCI do you run in it?
"1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster"
My daughter has an 02 camry wth that engine I did the valve cover gaskets, expecting the worst, and it was close to brand new in there at 120k miles. I think it is one of their best engines based on my experience around it. More and more I learn to not follow the hype.
Did you buy it new or used? What oil and OCI do you run in it?
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
"1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster"
My daughter has an 02 camry wth that engine I did the valve cover gaskets, expecting the worst, and it was close to brand new in there at 120k miles. I think it is one of their best engines based on my experience around it. More and more I learn to not follow the hype.
My grandson has the 02 Camry with the V6 with 190K and does 10K OCIs with M1 5-30. He runs a Pizza rout and the engine uses no oil to speak of, and sounds very solid. No sign of sludgeing.
"1MZ-FE 3.0L V6 engine: the sludge monster"
My daughter has an 02 camry wth that engine I did the valve cover gaskets, expecting the worst, and it was close to brand new in there at 120k miles. I think it is one of their best engines based on my experience around it. More and more I learn to not follow the hype.
My grandson has the 02 Camry with the V6 with 190K and does 10K OCIs with M1 5-30. He runs a Pizza rout and the engine uses no oil to speak of, and sounds very solid. No sign of sludgeing.
- Status
