Automatic oil change system?

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F357

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I have a 6.0 Powerstroke engine that I put a lot of miles on. Oil gets changed every 5-7k. In the past, I've heard about systems larger trucks use to burn a small metered amount of crankcase oil and replace it with fresh motor oil as you drive. I don't think they make these any more due to EPA restrictions.

I've considered making something similar for my truck, I'm curious what you think? I could tap into an oil line and inject a metered amount of crankcase oil into the fuel tank at every fill up. Then, add the same amount of fresh oil back into the engine. The mixture of waste oil to diesel would be less than 1%. It could also be filtered through a 1 micron fuel filter before being put in the tank.

This way I could possibly go thousands of miles between oil changes, yet still have fresh oil. I Would have to send away oil samples at first to see how long it would last. I worry about what the waste oil would do to my injectors, however, I was just using that same oil on the other side of the injector, how bad could it be?

Think I'm crazy?
 
Um diesel uoa I have seen, show oil good for 15k+, but I'm no expert with Diesel engines, but I have some very long interval uoa with amazing results in Diesel engines.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/qsol/products/newparts/centinel.html


Yeah, as best I can tell that is no longer available thanks to the EPA. Says it was tier 2 compliant, which was a while ago.

Of course, my engine is far from EPA compliant.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Have you considered extending your intervals? Im not trying to be judgemental or anything, just curious.

Not really. I do a lot of short trips and idling. The 6.0 is very picky about it's oil, and I have spent many thousands of dollars rebuilding my low and high pressure oil pumps, and injectors. I don't want to do it again. I'd rather keep adding fresh oil to it than to try and use something fancy and extend it out a ways. This engine uses the oil for the high pressure hydraulic system, and it's really hard on it.

The recommended interval from Ford for my driving is 5,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: F357
Think I'm crazy?


Yes. It's a solution in search of a problem. Is it really that difficult to simply change the oil periodically?
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
It's a solution in search of a problem.

LOL! I guess you could say that about this entire website. Just use whatever oil the manual calls for and it will last long enough, right?

It's not all about difficulty. This engine takes 4 GALLONS of oil. The filter is also very expensive and not available locally. Extending oil change intervals is not a good idea with the hydraulic injectors this engine uses. To continually add fresh oil would extend the drain interval without keeping the same oil forever. And I also saved 4 gallons of fuel and didn't have to dispose of 4 gallons of waste oil. The parts wouldn't cost much more than one oil change.

I could add a bypass filter but that would cost just as much and I'd still have to change the oil periodically.
 
Hello, I don't think you're crazy. I think you came up with an idea with some merit.
I think the human brain should come up with about 1,000 such ideas per day.
Share 'em, filter a bunch of them and tuck the kernels away for combination with others in the future.
...all the while keeping your eyes open for scrap hardware and materials to build these schemes.

OK, in your case. NOTE: All figures are made up.
1% of a 30 gallon tank = 3.85 oz. Let's call "less than 1%" 3.5 oz.
64 events would = the 7 qt. (224 oz.) oil capacity but the oil would never be near 100% clean.
Assume 500 miles per "fill-up" and you're at 32,000 miles.
Again, you'd be dosing dirty crankcase oil with a drib of fresh.
You would never run clean oil and heaven only knows what you'd do to your catalysts (diesels have catalysts, no?).

Conclusion: Big rigs have bypass systems for extra thorough filtration.
A smaller scale bypass system would serve you better. Kira
 
Quote:
Conclusion: Big rigs have bypass systems for extra thorough filtration.
A smaller scale bypass system would serve you better.


+1

Then determine the OCI with a few UOA's. With the filtration capablites of bypass filters, it may be very cost effective. Not sure what oil you are using, but a good synthetic along with a bypass system might be your best option.
 
HEUI systems need VERY clean fuel-the oil would have to be filtered through a very good filter to avoid damaging the injectors. When I had my old 300D, in hot weather I would just add a quart or 2 of used, clean oil every fill up-it didn't cause any problems.
 
Originally Posted By: Kira
OK, in your case. NOTE: All figures are made up.
1% of a 30 gallon tank = 3.85 oz. Let's call "less than 1%" 3.5 oz.


Just a little correction.......30 gallons is 120 quarts....So 1 quart would be 1%+. (In an average fillup, since we never actually run them empty).

Somewhere in there, you got your quarts messed up with your kilograms, or something.

I actually don't think this is a good idea, either. Extending the OCI might make sense, and finding a suitable use for used oil would make sense. But using dirty $6 a quart oil (Which is $24 per gallon) to power your truck is.......Not a great idea. Burn it for heat, sure. Use it to preserve your woodwork.......OK. But keep it out of the combustion chamber.
 
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: F357
Think I'm crazy?


Yes. It's a solution in search of a problem. Is it really that difficult to simply change the oil periodically?


x2. Big time.
 
Originally Posted By: Kira

1% of a 30 gallon tank = 3.85 oz. Let's call "less than 1%" 3.5 oz.
64 events would = the 7 qt. (224 oz.) oil capacity but the oil would never be near 100% clean.
Assume 500 miles per "fill-up" and you're at 32,000 miles.
Again, you'd be dosing dirty crankcase oil with a drib of fresh.
You would never run clean oil and heaven only knows what you'd do to your catalysts (diesels have catalysts, no?).


My tank is 38 gallons, 1% would be 1.52 quarts of oil. That tank will last approximately 600 miles. The system holds 15 quarts of oil. After ten tanks, 6,000 miles, I would have completely exchanged the oil. Is that good enough, I don't know. It would also get a dose of 10% fresh oil every 600 miles. (I like those numbers, 1% in the tank is 10% out of the crankcase)

No, my truck does not have a catalyst.

The oil system and HEUI injection system in this motor is very different than any other. It is important to note that only around 12 quarts comes out at an oil change - this motor always holds around 3 quarts of dirty oil, you can never change it all.

Sure, I could add a bypass filter and extend the OCI out, but it still has to be changed at some point. As for putting dirty oil in the fuel, that same oil was just powering the other side of the injector, so how bad could it be? I could filter it through a 1 micron filter before it goes in the tank. I would never run my engine on random used oil from strangers, but oil that came out of the same engine? Why is that bad? As posted above this used to be a factory supported option from Cummins before the EPA killed it.

I have to wonder if 1% clean WMO wouldn't be an improvement for ULSD.
 
Well, there is but one way to prove your theory ...
Put it into action.

Don't be like 99.9% of the rest of BITOGers and theorize and blabber on about hyposthesis. Just do it. Try it out. See what happens. Report back of your success or failure. Tell us what worked and what didn't. Tweak it. Fine tune it. Learn from it.

This is my first and foremost bone of contention with BITOGers, in general. They will talk in theory 'til the cows come home, but then never back it up with real data or pragmatic testing. I realaize you're new here, but may have been lurking for a while. I'll cut you some slack for now, but not for long.

(I mean the following in a playful teasing manner ...)
IOW - put up or shut up.
PROVE IT one way or another.
 
Considering how much that the PS 6.0 is a problem child, I would not try and avoid maintenance with this engine, especially if we are talking about the injectors.

I have two in my fleet and basically I would love to do nothing more that dig a big hole and push them in (I would have to push because I know they will cost me more money to drive them into a hole). One alone burned 1/3 of my budget (injectors in both vehicles, turbo, oil cooler, clutch-fan etc) in the first 3 months of this year. OK, I did basically inherit a neglected fleet who was probably trying to run a fleet by the gas-and-go... look at how well my budget is doing because I am not fixing anything method. Anyway, do the regular PI with the 6.0 as they are not a robust "can ignore issues" engine.

Both my 6.0 have about 8000 hours and 70K miles (shuttle service with a lot of stop-and-go) and I would never consider the "automatic" oil change... even with one of my engines with a newly developed valve-cover leak.
 
I have some reservations. The HEUI injection system has such a reputation for crankiness, putting waste oil on the high pressure side just seems like asking for more trouble even if it is just 1% of fuel. But are the "stick-slip" and cold start romp problems we've heard about on the 6.0 PS over the years due to sticking on the oil side or the fuel side of the injector? My guess is on the oil side, which would probably be helped by having regular doses of fresh oil.

I've run large amounts of waste oil in my Cummins over the last 10 years (up to 15%), and it hasn't seemed to suffer any negative effects. But mine is a completely different fuel system from the HEUI. I've also never run waste oil that comes out of the diesel's crankcase. I just can't stand the thought of running soot through the fuel injectors. I think over time it may erode the needle seat or score the plunger walls.

But hey, truckers used to run waste motor oil in their fuel all the time, and in concentrations higher than 1%.

If you've disabled the EGR system on your engine, soot loading of the oil should be a lot less. And if you set up your oil dosing system so you get a complete oil change in 6k miles, it might not hurt anything. You can do a UOA after the first 3k or 6k miles and see if there is anything bad happening.
 
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I think that there's two issues in this that are confusing the answer.

1) The concept of the "perpetual" oil change.
2) What to do with the oil.

Considering 2) - do you currently dispose of your used oil in your fuel tank ?

Is that something that you actually want to do ?

Are there any advantages over what you currently do with your waste oil ?

I agree with A Harman, I dispose of lightly used petrol engine oil through my diesel (around 1-1/2% rate, not every tank)...the diesel oil I don't.

As to 1), I can see the benefits of the perpetual oil change, and am quite a fan of

Then looking at 1), I'm quite a fan of this test. which sort of proved more the perpetual oil change than the life of the oil per se.

Cheaper to rig up a pet cock to drain 2 quarts off every 1500 miles, and top it up...do that for 10k miles and see what the oil looks like...if you like it, consider the full set-up.

Could even tip the 2 quarts into the tank to simulate part 1) if you like.
 
Absolutely the worst engine to even consider doing an waste oil into fuel system.
At the very least if you seriously consider this then use only Racor/Motorcraft fuel filters.
 
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