Oil Additives Compatible with Motor Oil?

[CrawfishTails]

One bad thing about additives we might buy off the shelf, is that we don't know if they might upset the balance of all the additives in our motor oil. "surface competition"

Some engine wear reduction additives we mix ourselves into our oil may interfere with the additives already in a fully formulated engine oil.

Which ones work? Which ones don't interfere with what's already there?
I'm not going to sit smugly back and condemn every bottled formulation out there, yet I know some may not play well with additive packages already in motor oil.

Polymer Esters: (Hyperlube Zinc Replacement, Croda P3986, Nissan Ester Oil)

Chlorinated Paraffins: (Prolong) - Toxic, works at warm temperatures, not cold.

Ionic Lubricants (IL): (Can't buy them now; Oak Ridge, Lubrizol, GM) - Looks they are coming in 0w-16 oils, although you can't just mix with other oils will-nilly.

Moly: (Liqui Moly MOS2)

ZDDP: (STP, Mobil1 0w-30 Racing Oil used as an additive) - Starts working at higher temperatures, too much pollutes catalysts.

Ceramic Particles: (Ceratec, NanoTech Lubricants, VanLube 289, Nissan Ester Oil)

Answers should probably include some reference source or other solid info. Also, reducing wear is the game here.
http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/07/f17/ft014_qu_2014_o.pdf
http://www.elevance.com/documents/200909_techbeat.pdf
http://www.crodalubricants.com/download.aspx?s=133&m=doc&id=258

 

[demarpaint]

 

[67lemans]

i don't know of a reason to use them. why worry?

 

[Trav]

Personally i don't use any in a clean good running engine, i don't see any benefits.
Some additives do work but you need to use one that address the particular problem the engine has.
That being said i will not use any sort of solid in the oil, i don't care what they claim it will eventually drop out, congeal in places or both.

 

[MrQuackers]

Got a bottle of Slick 50 for less than $3 at O'Reilly (already on clearance and I had a $5 off $10 coupon). The oil base is fully formulated 10w-30 GF-4 compliant. Tested and proven by Shell Laboratories. Date on box was 2011, so I don't think this formula has PTFE I'll mix it with some Pennzoil Platinum.

 

[splinter]

I like those additives that the refiners/chemists/blenders saw fit to include in the bottles of lubricants for which I've already paid.

Only.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Remember motor oil is formulated to a PRICE POINT... I believe motor oil can be so much better than what it is, but who would pay $20 a quart for it?

Same with gasoline, it has to compete in the market, so they can't make the best formulation possible... economics.

 

[double vanos]

Oil is formulated to specific - SN , A1, GF-5 etc. Manufacturers specify their requirements for warranty retention. Easy actually..

 

[Stelth]

STP isn't really a zinc additive. It's a thickener that has some zinc in it, but the last VOA I saw of it had a pretty low amount compared to an SN oil.

Something like Lucas or Morey's Oil Stabilizer isn't going to upset the balance of additives since they're pure petroleum products; they will just dilute the additives that are already there, and change the viscosity.

I don't think the problem with chlorinated paraffins is goofing up the additive balance of the oil, but rather that they attack copper and copper alloys, and become acidic very quickly in an IC engine. IIRC, the idea of Prolong is that it is stabilized in such a way that this doesn't occur (I'm not endorsing that idea, just mentioning it).

I think that Nissan Ester Oil is a fully-formulated engine oil rather than an additive.

 

[Donald]

In most cases the engine will be running when the car is towed to the boneyard. If you want better lubrication from your oil, buy better oil.

At some point, its the engine design, type of driving, climate, and a little luck that determine how long an engine will run.

And has been said before, its additive package that is important, not any one additive.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Stelth
Something like Lucas or Morey's Oil Stabilizer isn't going to upset the balance of additives since they're pure petroleum products; they will just dilute the additives that are already there, and change the viscosity.


Moreys MSDS shows more than just petroleum products
Antimony, tris(dipentylcarbamodithioato-S,S')-, (OC-6-11)- 015890-25-2 Petroleum distillates, hydrotreated heavy naphthenic 064742-52-5 Phosphorodithioic acid, O,O-di-C1-14-alkyl esters, zinc salts 068649-42-3 <3

 

[badtlc]

The only one I know of that 100% will not affect additive chemistry and cause conflict between competing elements is Auto-RX. I'm sure there are some others I am unaware of and yes, most of them don't tend do any harm but the additive formulation is all about compromise and the relationship between the chosen elements has been engineered for a reason.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Stelth
Something like Lucas or Morey's Oil Stabilizer isn't going to upset the balance of additives since they're pure petroleum products; they will just dilute the additives that are already there, and change the viscosity.


Moreys MSDS shows more than just petroleum products
Antimony, tris(dipentylcarbamodithioato-S,S')-, (OC-6-11)- 015890-25-2 Petroleum distillates, hydrotreated heavy naphthenic 064742-52-5 Phosphorodithioic acid, O,O-di-C1-14-alkyl esters, zinc salts 068649-42-3


Oh, I didn't know that. I made an ASSumption.

 

[demarpaint]

People concerned about compatibility or wrecking a good oil should add NOTHING to their oil. Even products from companies claiming to have no impact on the base oil or add pack. That is one way to be 100% certain.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Remember motor oil is formulated to a PRICE POINT... I believe motor oil can be so much better than what it is, but who would pay $20 a quart for it?

Same with gasoline, it has to compete in the market, so they can't make the best formulation possible... economics.


I tend to believe that too. That oils "could" be better, yet formulators quit-and-go-home when they see they pass all the spec requirements. So there might be room for improvement.

In other threads, a tribologist was discussing polymer esters (Hyperlube Zinc Replacement) that Croda also touts, and that also may be the secret-sauce behind Castrol's Magnatec claims of decreased cool-engine wear. Nissan also gets behind ester in oil, so maybe just adding a quart of Nissan Ester Oil to a sump would do it, although you're getting diamond dust in that stuff too.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
People concerned about compatibility or wrecking a good oil should add NOTHING to their oil. Even products from companies claiming to have no impact on the base oil or add pack. That is one way to be 100% certain.


The fact is that some additives are synergistic. These can be identified. Therefore, to assume all are bad is not the way forward.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
People concerned about compatibility or wrecking a good oil should add NOTHING to their oil. Even products from companies claiming to have no impact on the base oil or add pack. That is one way to be 100% certain.


The fact is that some additives are synergistic. These can be identified. Therefore, to assume all are bad is not the way forward.


You're preaching to the choir. lol I'm a fan of certain additives to address specific concerns. My statement was directed to those who are concerned about using them or don't believe in additives at all. The best bet for them is to avoid additives.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
The only one I know of that 100% will not affect additive chemistry and cause conflict between competing elements is Auto-RX.


From their own website.
Quote:
These coupling esters compete for the same space on metal surfaces as do the cleaning esters of Auto-Rx

I don't need to go any further. IMHO it would be best just to drop this subject right here.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: badtlc
The only one I know of that 100% will not affect additive chemistry and cause conflict between competing elements is Auto-RX.


From their own website.
Quote:
These coupling esters compete for the same space on metal surfaces as do the cleaning esters of Auto-Rx

I don't need to go any further. IMHO it would be best just to drop this subject right here.


And redline uses additives that would be considered competition for their ester base. It isn't just one or the other.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Hard to draw real conclusions. A lot of complicated formulas out there, and not enough actual test data backing up marketing claims. I'm especially disappointed in LubroMoly for not providing test data on LiquiMolyMOS2 and Ceratec.

Molakule remarked that polymer esters are synergistic, and this does seem to be born out by tech papers and statements from Croda, Hyperlube, and one other that I lost the reference to (Carolina company). Also, the polymer esters appear to have a proportional effect on benefits per unit dosage, something I'm looking for! Instead of a threshold-benefits effect. (For example, moly shows friction benefits at low doses, but you don't get the wear benefits until you get the higher doses, and some tech papers have mentioned the patchiness of insufficient moly, which makes dosage amounts a little tricky.)

I found a Russian tech paper that found using nanodiamonds sometimes made the wear worse. So nanotech is out for me unless someone knows where good data is on that.