Jeep 4.0L - PYB 10w-30 (first UOA)

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Making me think I might want to look into a new oil.


I haven't pulled a UOA on my 4.0 (too afraid) but I did gain some gas mileage by going from RT6 to pennzoil conventional.


That's why I've been thinking of dropping the RT6. It's definitely hit my fuel economy.

I've got a Baldwin 7311-MPG coming in on Thursday. Think it's time to switch.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Nice UOA.

So - what did you learn from this? Any chance you'll extend the OCI? Could EASILY 2x it out to 6k miles once a year. Probably even 3x it out to 9k miles.

Yes, heresy; I know. But hey - why let facts and data get in the way of good ol' fashioned rhetoric and mythology?

6,000 miles is doable, but I wouldn't go 9,000 miles on conventional oil in this particular engine. I've seen plenty of sludged up 4.0s, and my own engine is pretty dirty inside from previous owner neglect.



Your insols are .2; hardly heading towards sludgeville ...

Right thing to do is to extend, but smartly and not blindly. Run this OCI out 6k miles and then UOA as well as pop the cover off and take a picture. If things are good, perhaps 7.5k miles next, then 9k. I would NEVER advocate a blind run towards 3x the OCI. But nothing wrong with using the data you pay for to make smart decisions.



I feel the same way. Why pay for data that will just be ignored. I wonder if they'd cut a deal for just testing for coolant,since that's all he said he was after.
I will say that if I ever acquire a jeep I'll be using PYB considering all the positive data I've seen posted here.

 

[k24a4]

Nice report.

My GF donated her '97 4.0 with over 250k miles over the Summer. Never had engine related problems and was still running strong when she got rid of it. She went to Jiffy Lube or a local mechanic for her changes between 3-4k. I tried to get her to extend further but old habits die hard. She was the original owner.

The interior was flawless but the rockers were rusting out and her father wanted her in a safer car. She had the clutch replaced only 1-2 years prior.

Someone at auction got a good deal. She got paperwork from the charity stating it went for...

$500.

She is now driving a '15 Forester but admits she misses, "Big Blue".

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I haven't seen enough of these yet to prove it, but thus far I have noticed a trend that the very best UOA's for the Jeep 4.0 when using PYB have come from those that have used it consistently for a while.

I don't plan to give mine anything else ever again, so future UOA's could be interesting indeed.


I'm going to try for straight 10w-30 this spring! Not a mix of 5w-30, 10w-30 and SAE30


I am sticking with Pennzoil but have fiddled around with weights for fun. I have run 5w30, 10w30 and 10w40 in PYB as well as 10w30 High Mileage. I have a run of straight SAE 30 PYB on deck for summer just for giggles. I have also used MoS2 off and on and vacillate on whether or not to stick with it.

Have not UOA'd them all but got my best results so far with PYB 10w40. My engine seems to shed more than some posted here I don't think the low numbers in this UOA for example are attainable with my particular engine. The two best UOA's I think I've seen here were runs of plain old Yellow Bottle 10w30 and nothing else.

The Pennzoil Dexos synblend has also interested me but I don't want to change from PYB's formula. If it was the same as PYB but with a 50% synbase what a great winter oil it would make. A lot of BITOG'ers have run it but so far not one single UOA or VOA that I know of.

 

[Lex94]

Not just Jeep 4.0L...My Subaru EJ25 POS is smooth and quiet with PYB 10w30 and totally eliminated the go-pedal vibration it always had...Also gained about 2 MPG...Also the 10w30 was smoother and quieter over the 5w30. I can't feel or hear any difference between PYB 10w30 and PHM 10w30 but PHM is a bit thicker and should be more shear stable. We will see.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I haven't seen enough of these yet to prove it, but thus far I have noticed a trend that the very best UOA's for the Jeep 4.0 when using PYB have come from those that have used it consistently for a while.

I don't plan to give mine anything else ever again, so future UOA's could be interesting indeed.


I'm going to try for straight 10w-30 this spring! Not a mix of 5w-30, 10w-30 and SAE30


I am sticking with Pennzoil but have fiddled around with weights for fun. I have run 5w30, 10w30 and 10w40 in PYB as well as 10w30 High Mileage. I have a run of straight SAE 30 PYB on deck for summer just for giggles. I have also used MoS2 off and on and vacillate on whether or not to stick with it.

Have not UOA'd them all but got my best results so far with PYB 10w40. My engine seems to shed more than some posted here I don't think the low numbers in this UOA for example are attainable with my particular engine. The two best UOA's I think I've seen here were runs of plain old Yellow Bottle 10w30 and nothing else.

The Pennzoil Dexos synblend has also interested me but I don't want to change from PYB's formula. If it was the same as PYB but with a 50% synbase what a great winter oil it would make. A lot of BITOG'ers have run it but so far not one single UOA or VOA that I know of.


Mine has some bad piston slap so I bet my aluminum is through the roof. I'll probably try 10w 40 if it produced good wear numbers ... mine gets used like a Jeep. And it leaks so much that I can replace with 5w30 for winter without changing!

 

[Lex94]

Just want to add...PHM 10w30 appears to be Rotella T5 10w30 but with their passenger car additive package. It is probably the better alternative to a 10w40.

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T5_10W-30_%28CJ-4%29_%28en-US%29_TDS.pdf

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_GTDS_Pennzoil_High_Mileage_Vehicle_10W-30_Motor_Oil_%28SN%29_%28en%29_TDS.pdf

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/PZHM.htm

 

[jls095]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

I feel the same way. Why pay for data that will just be ignored. I wonder if they'd cut a deal for just testing for coolant,since that's all he said he was after.


This response kind of rubs me the wrong way and is typical of some of those on BITOG. My intent was to validate that my "oil" strategy was on-point (and clearly it is) - so from that perspective, the data wasn't ignored.

 

[jls095]

Originally Posted By: Miller88

Mine has some bad piston slap so I bet my aluminum is through the roof. I'll probably try 10w 40 if it produced good wear numbers ... mine gets used like a Jeep. And it leaks so much that I can replace with 5w30 for winter without changing!


Mine has pretty minor piston slap - as in nobody but me would notice it

It's had it for about 4 years now and it always goes away as soon as things start to warm up. The later 4.0s with short piston skirts are most susceptible. Again, PYB quiets it down the most.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: jls095
Originally Posted By: Miller88

Mine has some bad piston slap so I bet my aluminum is through the roof. I'll probably try 10w 40 if it produced good wear numbers ... mine gets used like a Jeep. And it leaks so much that I can replace with 5w30 for winter without changing!


Mine has pretty minor piston slap - as in nobody but me would notice it

It's had it for about 4 years now and it always goes away as soon as things start to warm up. The later 4.0s with short piston skirts are most susceptible. Again, PYB quiets it down the most.


Good to know your aluminum is very low so not a concern for you at this point apparently. My aluminum ppm was 12 on my first UOA (quadruple the average, zikes!) but was only 1 ppm on the 10w40 UOA. I have a little piston slap on cold start when the temps drop way down also.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: jls095
Originally Posted By: Miller88

Mine has some bad piston slap so I bet my aluminum is through the roof. I'll probably try 10w 40 if it produced good wear numbers ... mine gets used like a Jeep. And it leaks so much that I can replace with 5w30 for winter without changing!


Mine has pretty minor piston slap - as in nobody but me would notice it

It's had it for about 4 years now and it always goes away as soon as things start to warm up. The later 4.0s with short piston skirts are most susceptible. Again, PYB quiets it down the most.


Mine slaps the worst on hot restart. Quiet on cold start. I have a 2000 so it's a skirt.

RT6 was really noisey in mine

 

[crazyoildude]

i did not listen to it but in many of these 4.0 jeep engines the sound that it is knocking is actually carbon build up some of them sound like diesels or bad connecting rods all they need is a carbon clean up. Did this many times for customers that thought their engines needed rebuilding.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

It seems to be a bit of a known issue that some year 4.0s break piston skirts. Mine sounds like it is. I don't drive it that hard ,but I can't imagine it has carbon buildup.

 

[rrounds]

Originally Posted By: jls095
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Another great PYB Jeep 4.0 UOA, thanks for posting! Was this the High Mileage or regular Yellow Bottle?


Thank you! It's just regular yellow bottle. And like you've alluded to in other posts, my 4.0 definitely runs quieter on PYB as opposed to others.

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
6,000 miles is doable, but I wouldn't go 9,000 miles on conventional oil in this particular engine. I've seen plenty of sludged up 4.0s, and my own engine is pretty dirty inside from previous owner neglect.


I'm going to keep my OCI schedule the same. The only modification I might make is changing the filter annually (every other OCI) instead of bi-annually. I'm trying out a massive Baldwin B7311-MPG for the first time - it has great flow properties, outstanding filtration, and ridiculous capacity. Given that the Jeep holds 7.0L of oil (with the bigger filter) and that this UOA was solid, I'm confident that the bit of oil that doesn't get drained (kept in the filter) won't be a problem.

I will mention that with the Baldwin filter, my oil pressure is slightly higher and pressure builds quicker at start-up (check gauges light no longer flashes for an instant). I had previously used Wix, Mobil1, or K&N filters. Here's more info on it, beginning on post 24: http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/forums/bas...-filters-2.html

I don't think you can do better than the Baldwin B7311-MPG oil filter, that is a great filter. I would go 12k miles and cut it open and I'll bet it will be clean with no tears. I go 15k to 21k miles on my Baldwin B202(this filter is a little over twice as large as the stock S2000 filter) That I run on my S2000 and even at 21k miles it looks like a new filter on the inside. The B7311-MPG is larger and can hold way more contaminates plus it filters better than my B202. Try it and let us know how it looks. Also take some pic's of the filter.
Here is a B7042 that has 15k miles on it(same size as the B202) that I use to run on my S2000
http://s949.photobucket.com/user/rrounds/library/Oil Filters?sort=2&page=1

ROD

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Bit of a bump - how is the size of that compared to a Fl1A? I can't really seem to find a good comparison of size.

 

[DoubleWasp]

This is a comparison pic of an XG8; Fram equivalent of an FL1A, compared to my Napa 1459, which is the same size as the B7311-MPG.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Wow! Wonder if that will even fit in my Cherokee.

On a side note, a minute or two at the rev limiter yesterday while trying to get up a snowy hill while off roading seems to have quieted the knock down. At least temporarily. It doesn't sound like it's going to blow up up hot restart.

 

[KCJeep]

Interesting. I get occasional cold knock with mine. Maybe it just needs a good Italian tune up.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Wow! Wonder if that will even fit in my Cherokee.

On a side note, a minute or two at the rev limiter yesterday while trying to get up a snowy hill while off roading seems to have quieted the knock down. At least temporarily. It doesn't sound like it's going to blow up up hot restart.


That is a lifter then.

There is a guy on NAXJA.org that suggests running the engine for 3-4 minutes at 3000 rpm. Supposedly this cleans out the lifters somewhat quieting down the knock. I haven't tried it, but mine is quieter after a long highway drive with sustained RPM above 2100.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

If it got quiet it can't be broken .... just stuck? I've run RT6 and PYB in it - is there anything that would clear it out? But even off road, I never go above 2500RPM or so. Slow and steady wins the race!

It started to come back slightly. Nowhere near as bad as before; it doesn't sound like it's going to blow up.

I had 5200 or whatever the limiter is for a minute or two. It was cutting itself off. I saw the RPM go past 4000 but had to watch where I was going. My foot was on the floor and it heard it cutting itself off.