2009 Civic, 6776mi, 53k, M1 0W20 AFE UOA

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This is the girlfriend's Civic. It gets short tripped often (2mi commute), but with longer drives at least once a week. She uses the remote start more often in the winter, so there is likely to be somewhat significant idle time. The oil change was done the day after a long 400mi trip. I warmed up the engine slightly at idle for a few minutes. I almost forgot to take the sample, so it was taken at the very end of the oil drain when it was just a thin trickle.

New M1 0W20 AFE was poured in and a Honda A01 went back on the car.

Oil filter: OEM A02, used for two OCIs, 12,822mi total ( Cut Open )

They added the analysis onto the one for my Element, so the right column is not correct for the Civic. I left it on there since it might be interesting since they were both running M1 0W20 AFE.

After comparing with other R18 UOAs, the Tin seems high. All the other UOAs show 0-2 ppm. Any idea where that might be from?

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Thanks for looking!
 
Looks good BUT:

I don't trust the data, your conditions you described, almost 7K miles etc etc I would ask for a retest.

These oil analyses companies should put up YouTUBE vids, show them test a clients sample, make it fun.

My [censored] detector is slightly going off. I just don't trust UOAs much.

If it is correct, you're doing great though!

As a note, if I did a UOA I'd NEVER tell them the car, mileage, Oil, or OCI on the sample or conditions it was run in.

Then I'd compare that UOA to online VOA resources, and historic BITOG data to compare.

We are telling them too much info, leaves too much room for them to "guess" what your UOA would be.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Falken
Looks good BUT:

I don't trust the data, your conditions you described, almost 7K miles etc etc I would ask for a retest.

These oil analyses companies should put up YouTUBE vids, show them test a clients sample, make it fun.

My [censored] detector is slightly going off. I just don't trust UOAs much.

If it is correct, you're doing great though!

As a note, if I did a UOA I'd NEVER tell them the car, mileage, Oil, or OCI on the sample or conditions it was run in.

Then I'd compare that UOA to online VOA resources, and historic BITOG data to compare.

We are telling them too much info, leaves too much room for them to "guess" what your UOA would be.


You assume people are only paying for the spectral analysis measurements. That isn't what the UOA company is selling. They are trying to sell you analysis with your SAM. You don't have to provide the details but that is why they ask for it.

I'm not getting into the discussion of they are good or not at doing the analysis after the measurements.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Only problem I see is you short changed you OCI by 3K.


With the frequent short-tripping OP mentioned, I don't find that OCI to be unreasonably short at all.

At the end of the day, oil is cheap. Engine repairs are not. With 5 quarts of M1 costing much less than a full tank of gas, I fail to see the usefulness of extending an OCI out to 10K or more.
 
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Originally Posted By: HKPolice
12ppm of Tin in an R18 is not normal.

Yup. Usually means the oil is too thin for the application.
 
Originally Posted By: AccordK24
Originally Posted By: tig1
Only problem I see is you short changed you OCI by 3K.


With the frequent short-tripping OP mentioned, I don't find that OCI to be unreasonably short at all.

At the end of the day, oil is cheap. Engine repairs are not. With 5 quarts of M1 costing much less than a full tank of gas, I fail to see the usefulness of extending an OCI out to 10K or more.


So how does a 10K OCI vs a 7k OCI cause engine repairs?
 
Thanks for the posts!

The manual calls for 5W-20, but is back spec'd for 0W-20. I'll run this OCI out and see what the UOA comes back at. If the levels are still high, I'll run something a little thicker next time around.

At least for the next few months, it'll be cold enough that the engine oil probably won't get up to operating temp.

I'm hoping the high tin was a fluke. I partially expect that if there was an issue, the iron, aluminum, lead or copper would be a little more elevated as well. No?
 
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
12ppm of Tin in an R18 is not normal.

Yup. Usually means the oil is too thin for the application.


Tell us where the tin comes from since lead is almost non existent? Bearings? Not a chance.
 
Is it an automatic or manual? If manual then she could be lugging the engine which will cause excess wear on bearings. 0w20 is perfect for this engine, it's just pretty rare to see relatively high tin in a honda UOA.
 
It's an automatic. The only thing that's remotely non-stock is the use of the remote start (limited to 10 minutes).
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
12ppm of Tin in an R18 is not normal.

Yup. Usually means the oil is too thin for the application.


Tell us where the tin comes from since lead is almost non existent? Bearings? Not a chance.

I'm just regurgitating information shared to me by Terry Dyson when he was analyzing my UOA. He said whenever tin is above 5 it usually means the oil has thinned out too much and leaches tin first since its softer.
 
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
12ppm of Tin in an R18 is not normal.

Yup. Usually means the oil is too thin for the application.


Tell us where the tin comes from since lead is almost non existent? Bearings? Not a chance.

I'm just regurgitating information shared to me by Terry Dyson when he was analyzing my UOA. He said whenever tin is above 5 it usually means the oil has thinned out too much and leaches tin first since its softer.


Leaches tin from where?
 
Originally Posted By: deven
Journal and bearings


Only if the engine has the old style tri-metal bearings. If it has the newer aluminum/silicon bearings, then no. Like seeing copper in a Ford Modular UOA, you know it didn't come from the bearings because they are all bi-metal.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: deven
Journal and bearings


Only if the engine has the old style tri-metal bearings. If it has the newer aluminum/silicon bearings, then no. Like seeing copper in a Ford Modular UOA, you know it didn't come from the bearings because they are all bi-metal.

Agreed. In this case Tin being 12 its pretty high so its probably coming from either/or most likely in my opinion
 
Originally Posted By: AccordK24
Originally Posted By: tig1
Only problem I see is you short changed you OCI by 3K.


With the frequent short-tripping OP mentioned, I don't find that OCI to be unreasonably short at all.

At the end of the day, oil is cheap. Engine repairs are not. With 5 quarts of M1 costing much less than a full tank of gas, I fail to see the usefulness of extending an OCI out to 10K or more.

LMAO, my brother's R18 ran on whatever bulk oil walmart had on hand since newish, he changed his oil according to MM 6-7kish OCI, I changed his valve cover gasket....it was CLEAN inside, if not it looked brand new...I saw absolutely no varnish, and it has 180kish on it at the moment, real world experience counts more then random blur that people come up with...with M1 AFE 0w20, I can EASILY see the R18 do a 12k OCI... and if not longer...

his engine runs fantastic...
 
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: deven
Journal and bearings


Only if the engine has the old style tri-metal bearings. If it has the newer aluminum/silicon bearings, then no. Like seeing copper in a Ford Modular UOA, you know it didn't come from the bearings because they are all bi-metal.

Agreed. In this case Tin being 12 its pretty high so its probably coming from either/or most likely in my opinion


This tin reading in not from the bearings. If it were then lead would be high as well, as babbit bearings contain lead. Since the lead numbers are very low the tin is from another source or the UOA may be flawed as we know they often are.
 
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