Intake Cleaner on 5.3 Vortec vs Catch Can

[UnclePeco]

I am been reading concerning posts on the chevy forums regarding the amount of oil / Mist / blow by that is being re-circulated into my intake. On one hand a group of very avid Catch Can supporters have implemented their solution, which seems understandable - I may post a bother topic regarding this later.

My question: would an intake cleaner, like CRC intake cleaner, sprayed in the throttle body be effective in cleaning out the presumed crud? Could this cause more problems? Is this why so many use seafoam?

I have a 2009 Tahoe with a 5.3 that I drive about 40k per year. I am at 126k now. I do not want to fix what is not broken, but also do not want need a valve job at 200k

 

[Doog]

If your 5.3 is not a piston slapper and you change the oil every 5000 miles with a quality oil then I would do a Techron or seafoam treatment once or twice a year via the fuel system. That thing should go 300k before you need to think about a valve job.

But a little bit of cleaning never hurts. My preferred is techron and an Italian tune up

 

[UnclePeco]

But the fuel system additive does not impact the intake valves - correct?

 

[splinter]

Originally Posted By: UnclePeco
...would an intake cleaner, like CRC intake cleaner, sprayed in the throttle body be effective in cleaning out the presumed crud?...

No. The architecture/geometry of the intake manifold is such that it’s not designed for ‘wet’ flow, PCV blow-by particulate mist notwithstanding.


Check out TSB 10-06-01-008G if you’re experiencing excessive oil consumption.

 

[Olas]

An 09 should be port injection, right? Techron or SI1 will clean whatever it touches but the manifold itself may have some residue in there. As mentioned above its a dry manifold so ideally you should remove it to clean it, but, as with the water treatment, if you spray very short bursts of carb/brake/MAF cleaner in the throttle body while holding fast idle it should clean some of the gunk without removing it. Only way to stop it is to modify the PCV system - road draft or exhaust evac would be simplest..

 

[UnclePeco]

What is an exhaust evac?

 

[Olas]

It's when you vent the crankcase to the exhaust, as engine speed and blowby increase, the relative low pressure zone in the exhaust also increases and continues to evacuate blowby and maintain slight vacuum in the crankcase.

It keeps your inlet clean, stops you smelling that blowby as you would if it was vented to atmosphere, and some say low pressure in the case helps power.

 

[Olas]

This link explains it more thoroughly

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4387972-Bypassing-PCV-and-routing-to-exhaust-description-(DIY)-(long)

 

[UnclePeco]

Okay - so if I was willing to be non - environmentally friendly and just piped my pcv tube to under the car (except for state inspection) everything would continue to work?

 

[Olas]

So long as you cap off the port or hole on the inlet that the PCV hose was connected to (to avoid unmetered air getting in after the MAF) itll continue to work just fine, and as your road speed increases the Bernoulli principle applies in the same way as it would if the the PCV hose were routed to the exhaust.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Please maintain a normal OEM PCV for the sake of the environment. No need to re route anything.

That is a 300k mile engine with normal maintenance. Port fuel injection means that FUEL additives get sprayed right down the intake valve, cleans them up nicely. Spray into the manifold and expect uneven distribution of any liquid.

We use kreen in our fleet's fuel for easy intake cleaning, then you simply clean the PCV valve occasionally. On some very high mileage examples we spray the entire PCV cicuit hoses with carb clreaner, this also works on the fixed orifice type without pcv valve.

 

[splinter]

Originally Posted By: UnclePeco
Okay - so if I was willing to be non - environmentally friendly and just piped my pcv tube to under the car (except for state inspection) everything would continue to work?
Yes, except for the 'positive' portion of the equation in the PCV system's circuit.

I have an original equipment road draft setup such as you describe...on my '31 Model A (no joke).

 

[DoubleWasp]

Use a catch can and you neither hurt the environment, nor do you hurt your intake system.

The thing you have to watch out for is the situation getting so bad that your PCV system starts positively ventilating your crankcase of oil eventually. I have treated several General Motors V8's for exactly this issue, and seen a few that died from owners neglecting to treat this problem. It takes surprisingly little blow-by to get to this point.

A good intake cleaning will address your intake, but it will be more hard pressed to address fouled plugs, and carbon choked pistons. Just keep your intake clean in the first place.

If your consumption gets out of control, just do a road draft. The environment will be better off without your consumer demand on the destructive and polluting process involved in creating the new engine you'll need if you dump parts due to low oil pressure.

For catch cans, I prefer large air compressor water separators and automotive AC driers. The latter being easy to polish and look good, the former being easier to monitor contamination of the system.

 

[Olas]

The problem with using a Properly designed catch can is this:

Although a top quality catch can will separate all of the oil vapour and moisture from the blowby gas, that clean blowby gas is still going back into your intake - so is that an issue? Well yes, blowby gas has no oxygen and is hot. No oxygen means its displacing combustible A/F mix (reducing power and torque) and the increased temperature Increases the chance of pinging/pre ignition (necessitating higher octane fuel and less right foot)

The internal combustion engine wants air and fuel. You start to feed it stuff it can't use and only bad things will happen.

 

[DoubleWasp]

I solved that problem by using twin smog pumps that yank about 9" of vacuum at all rpm, even with the system sucking in fresh air from a breather on the opposite valve cover, and it pumps the filthy air into the factory air injection manifold that goes into the exhaust.

filthy air never sees the intake, but does get the same treatment as the rest of the exhausted fumes.

I learned long ago the effects of oil fumes, even after catch can treatment. One catch can vented close enough to the radiator that the treated fumes were getting sucker in by the radiator fan. The treated fumes resulted in the core taking on a nasty coat of oily dirt that completely obstructed the core.

This would obviously not have the same effect inside of an engine, but I'd rather keep intake and throttle body nice and clean.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Olas
It's when you vent the crankcase to the exhaust, as engine speed and blowby increase, the relative low pressure zone in the exhaust also increases and continues to evacuate blowby and maintain slight vacuum in the crankcase.

It keeps your inlet clean, stops you smelling that blowby as you would if it was vented to atmosphere, and some say low pressure in the case helps power.


It is most clearly notable on comp/sportsman class, carb equipped, dragsters.

One can clearly see the tubes running from the valve/rocker cover vents to the up swept exhaust header collectors.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Olas
The problem with using a Properly designed catch can is this:

Although a top quality catch can will separate all of the oil vapour and moisture from the blowby gas, that clean blowby gas is still going back into your intake - so is that an issue? Well yes, blowby gas has no oxygen and is hot. No oxygen means its displacing combustible A/F mix (reducing power and torque) and the increased temperature Increases the chance of pinging/pre ignition (necessitating higher octane fuel and less right foot)

The internal combustion engine wants air and fuel. You start to feed it stuff it can't use and only bad things will happen.


While the above is true, in certain parts of this country one could NEVER, EVER get away with an exhaust evac system, due to Gestapo-like VISUAL emissions inspections.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Nor should anyone try to run this setup on the street.

In the old daze you could see the streak of oil on the road!

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Olas
The problem with using a Properly designed catch can is this:

Although a top quality catch can will separate all of the oil vapour and moisture from the blowby gas, that clean blowby gas is still going back into your intake - so is that an issue? Well yes, blowby gas has no oxygen and is hot. No oxygen means its displacing combustible A/F mix (reducing power and torque) and the increased temperature Increases the chance of pinging/pre ignition (necessitating higher octane fuel and less right foot)

The internal combustion engine wants air and fuel. You start to feed it stuff it can't use and only bad things will happen.


While the above is true, in certain parts of this country one could NEVER, EVER get away with an exhaust evac system, due to Gestapo-like VISUAL emissions inspections.

I don't know the in's and out's of American law so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but;
How do hot rods and muscle cars with a simple breather filter on the valve cover fare with these visual inspections? Over here the laws that were in place when your car was sold continue to apply for the life of the car, even when newer regulations come out (which only apply to cars sold after said newer regulations come into effect) I guess you have something similar?

 

[TiredTrucker]

Ok, voice of experience. I put on a Conceptual Polymer catch can setup on the PCV line on my 2013 5.3L in my Silverado at 1100 miles on the engine. It now has about 23,000 miles on it. The engine "uses" about 8 oz of oil in 6000 miles. Of that amount, the catch can captures 6 oz of oil and crud in that same 6000 mile interval. So only 2 oz of oil is technically being "used" by the engine in 6000 miles. And my engine has all the "fixes" that GM has dreamed up to address the oil issues going on in these AFM engines. So, if folks like having almost 1/4 of a quart of oil heading to the intake on their engine every 6000 miles, then leave it stock. It is not required or necessary for the those that are comfortable with what is going on in there. I am one of those morons that actually likes to take proactive measures to limit problems down the road. Will it make a difference? Only time will tell. But I don't consider it a "waste" of money to do it. After all, given the amount of stuff people will spend money on a vehicle that serves no real purpose, it was chump change to put on the CP catch can setup.