According to LiquiMoly, it's not advisable to mix.
I'm currently using Ceratec and had the same question as you.
And don't exceed your OCI!
I'm currently using Ceratec and had the same question as you.
And don't exceed your OCI!
Liqui Moly Ceratec
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B (Boron) is part of BN (Boron Nitride) = so called ceramic.
Originally Posted By: Izb
VOA of Ceratec: http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/38285.html
Mo:5419(!) ppm
Bo: 359 ppm
Which microceramic? Laughing?
Mainly ammonium molybdenum (strictly according to MSDS: 5%)
Originally Posted By: Izb
VOA of Ceratec: http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/38285.html
Mo:5419(!) ppm
Bo: 359 ppm
Which microceramic? Laughing?
Mainly ammonium molybdenum (strictly according to MSDS: 5%)
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
demarpaint this is the kind of stuff that drives me up the wall but does not stop me from wading through the manure for answers.
If Ceratec contains moly as some posts indicate this email would be more marketing hype than hard core science.
When I have time I want to learn more how it bonds, etc.
Sorry about that. Ceratec contains no moly. What I believed was Ceratec was a 30K mile treatment, and from reading all over the WWW you could use MoS2 after the Ceratec treatment. From the email it seems that's not the way to go.
Pick one and use it is what I got out of the email. Ceratec is a 30K treatment, MoS2 is used at each OCI.
I think MoS2 would prevent Ceratec from bonding, so that makes sense. However I also thought if you decided to use Ceratec once it bonded using MoS2 was fine, however 30K miles later when it came time to use Ceratec again you'd have the MoS2 issue to contend with.
I am sure it doesn't contain any MoS2 looking at the color, but it could contain some liquid Mo like molybdenum diakyl dithiocarbamate. That would be the chemical additive they claim it contains.
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
demarpaint this is the kind of stuff that drives me up the wall but does not stop me from wading through the manure for answers.
If Ceratec contains moly as some posts indicate this email would be more marketing hype than hard core science.
When I have time I want to learn more how it bonds, etc.
Sorry about that. Ceratec contains no moly. What I believed was Ceratec was a 30K mile treatment, and from reading all over the WWW you could use MoS2 after the Ceratec treatment. From the email it seems that's not the way to go.
I think MoS2 would prevent Ceratec from bonding, so that makes sense. However I also thought if you decided to use Ceratec once it bonded using MoS2 was fine, however 30K miles later when it came time to use Ceratec again you'd have the MoS2 issue to contend with.
I am sure it doesn't contain any MoS2 looking at the color, but it could contain some liquid Mo like molybdenum diakyl dithiocarbamate. That would be the chemical additive they claim it contains.
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Thanks 147_grain. Before I read this I did send an email asking this and specifically how the ceramic bonding occurs.
Clearly molybdenum in a crank case will not cause an issue with Ceratec because with any engine with an oil cooler one never gets a 100% change out typically.
Since somehow the hexagonal boron nitride particles is coming out of the oil and bonding to the metals I can see how they could be used up before everything gets well coated perhaps but science may prove that not to be true.
I have been reading this site for years for info but finally joined because on many other sites there is an 'interest' in oils but not down to the chemistry level.
Somehow I totally missed how nano technology had come to motor oil like hexagonal boron nitride. If it turns out to be as good as it sounds we are going to do our twenty engines around the place.
hBN is not bonding to metal surfaces. MoS2 does thanks to the sulfur. But I don't want them to bond, it alters the the cylinder's surface roughness. Without this roughness, the oil would not stick to the cylinder wall and even with solid lubricants, damage would occur. hBN rules!
Thanks 147_grain. Before I read this I did send an email asking this and specifically how the ceramic bonding occurs.
Clearly molybdenum in a crank case will not cause an issue with Ceratec because with any engine with an oil cooler one never gets a 100% change out typically.
Since somehow the hexagonal boron nitride particles is coming out of the oil and bonding to the metals I can see how they could be used up before everything gets well coated perhaps but science may prove that not to be true.
I have been reading this site for years for info but finally joined because on many other sites there is an 'interest' in oils but not down to the chemistry level.
hBN is not bonding to metal surfaces. MoS2 does thanks to the sulfur. But I don't want them to bond, it alters the the cylinder's surface roughness. Without this roughness, the oil would not stick to the cylinder wall and even with solid lubricants, damage would occur. hBN rules!
I haven't seen any evidence of MoS2 bonding in placeswhere there's an abundance of oil, only on cylinder walls, which are starved from oil and even then not uniformly spread.
The correct oil would however stick anyway... Esters rule, together with PAO
The correct oil would however stick anyway... Esters rule, together with PAO
Originally Posted By: Walker
B (Boron) is part of BN (Boron Nitride) = so called ceramic.
Originally Posted By: Izb
VOA of Ceratec: http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/38285.html
Mo:5419(!) ppm
Bo: 359 ppm
Which microceramic? Laughing?
Mainly ammonium molybdenum (strictly according to MSDS: 5%)
Ummm no.
Hexagonal boron nitride is actually comonly known as white graphite.
The ceramic particulate is sub micron and therefore not filtered by an oil filter.
Anything else I can help you with. Or are you just trolling for trolling a sake.
B (Boron) is part of BN (Boron Nitride) = so called ceramic.
Originally Posted By: Izb
VOA of Ceratec: http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/38285.html
Mo:5419(!) ppm
Bo: 359 ppm
Which microceramic? Laughing?
Mainly ammonium molybdenum (strictly according to MSDS: 5%)
Ummm no.
Hexagonal boron nitride is actually comonly known as white graphite.
The ceramic particulate is sub micron and therefore not filtered by an oil filter.
Anything else I can help you with. Or are you just trolling for trolling a sake.
Originally Posted By: vo_marz
Tried the Liquimoly MOS2 oil additiv on Mobil 1 racing 0W50
nothing much imho ...
(maybe because M1 0W50 already has a boatload of moly? 1600+ PPM )
Pointless. That's a racing oil and therefore the mos2 isn't in service long enough to plate.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I haven't seen any evidence of MoS2 bonding in placeswhere there's an abundance of oil, only on cylinder walls, which are starved from oil and even then not uniformly spread.
The correct oil would however stick anyway... Esters rule, together with PAO
That's incorrect. In fact in the engines I've torn down using mos2 the exposed surfaces such as cam lobes,cylinder walls and so on had no visible layer whatsoever and looked like bare steel.
However they felt unlike any steel I've ever touched before.
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
Tried the Liquimoly MOS2 oil additiv on Mobil 1 racing 0W50
nothing much imho ...
(maybe because M1 0W50 already has a boatload of moly? 1600+ PPM )
Pointless. That's a racing oil and therefore the mos2 isn't in service long enough to plate.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I haven't seen any evidence of MoS2 bonding in placeswhere there's an abundance of oil, only on cylinder walls, which are starved from oil and even then not uniformly spread.
The correct oil would however stick anyway... Esters rule, together with PAO
That's incorrect. In fact in the engines I've torn down using mos2 the exposed surfaces such as cam lobes,cylinder walls and so on had no visible layer whatsoever and looked like bare steel.
However they felt unlike any steel I've ever touched before.
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
cylinder walls annd cam lobes run in areas that are not in contact with oil at all times though.
Those are areas where I'd want a layer of the MoS2 (or equivalent) that's sacrificial and friction reducing.
Those are areas where I'd want a layer of the MoS2 (or equivalent) that's sacrificial and friction reducing.
Originally Posted By: kadirgoksen
I have a 2000 model VW Golf MK4 1.6 with very high milage, 210,000km. I put in in my car yesterday, after an engine flush, since the reviews I read here were very good. I also used Liqui Moly 5w30 oil in my engine for the first time. After turning on the engine, I immediately felt a more smooth running and quiter engine. I am curious about what it will do to my engine after 600-800km, when it is fully effective. I am very satisfied with the result, by the time being. I will inform you about my experience at the time of first oil change.
So you have put both treatments in the same OC?
I have used the moly and T6 ever since my 3sfe rebuild (not the 1st OC).
Now I just put the BN treatment (why they call it ceramic-poor choice?) and thinking how to use the moly during this OC of Royal Purple truck oil? Must I wait for the next OC?
I have a 2000 model VW Golf MK4 1.6 with very high milage, 210,000km. I put in in my car yesterday, after an engine flush, since the reviews I read here were very good. I also used Liqui Moly 5w30 oil in my engine for the first time. After turning on the engine, I immediately felt a more smooth running and quiter engine. I am curious about what it will do to my engine after 600-800km, when it is fully effective. I am very satisfied with the result, by the time being. I will inform you about my experience at the time of first oil change.
So you have put both treatments in the same OC?
I have used the moly and T6 ever since my 3sfe rebuild (not the 1st OC).
Now I just put the BN treatment (why they call it ceramic-poor choice?) and thinking how to use the moly during this OC of Royal Purple truck oil? Must I wait for the next OC?
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
cylinder walls annd cam lobes run in areas that are not in contact with oil at all times though.
Those are areas where I'd want a layer of the MoS2 (or equivalent) that's sacrificial and friction reducing.
They better be in contact will oil at all times or their lifespan could be measured in minutes.
cylinder walls annd cam lobes run in areas that are not in contact with oil at all times though.
Those are areas where I'd want a layer of the MoS2 (or equivalent) that's sacrificial and friction reducing.
They better be in contact will oil at all times or their lifespan could be measured in minutes.
Bad wording on my part. There's no full fluid film lubrication going on with those parts at all times.
For those that have used Ceratec long term (several oil changes). Do you have any indication that its impacts goes beyond the first oil change (beyond 10K miles or so)?
In the LM Ceratec brochure (pdf files) it says up to 50,000 Km (or around 31K miles).
In the LM Ceratec brochure (pdf files) it says up to 50,000 Km (or around 31K miles).
I've been using Ceratec for about 80k kms now on my Prius. Unfortunately I can offer you no scientific evidence for or against this additive. My Prius has about 248k kms on her now and the engine is still strong. So, I guess you could say that I'm happy with it. I've seen quite a few Priis on Priuschat.com that are using noticeable amounts of oil around the 150k to 200K+ mile mark. Mine uses somewhat insignificant amounts of oil and I use it under severe service driving (full time pizza delivery). I can't tell any difference in the fuel efficiency while using Ceratec.
Originally Posted By: dino33
I've been using Ceratec for about 80k kms now on my Prius. Unfortunately I can offer you no scientific evidence for or against this additive. My Prius has about 248k kms on her now and the engine is still strong. So, I guess you could say that I'm happy with it. I've seen quite a few Priis on Priuschat.com that are using noticeable amounts of oil around the 150k to 200K+ mile mark. Mine uses somewhat insignificant amounts of oil and I use it under severe service driving (full time pizza delivery). I can't tell any difference in the fuel efficiency while using Ceratec.
Thanks for the feedback. How many miles, on the average, do you leave the Ceratec in the engine?
I've been using Ceratec for about 80k kms now on my Prius. Unfortunately I can offer you no scientific evidence for or against this additive. My Prius has about 248k kms on her now and the engine is still strong. So, I guess you could say that I'm happy with it. I've seen quite a few Priis on Priuschat.com that are using noticeable amounts of oil around the 150k to 200K+ mile mark. Mine uses somewhat insignificant amounts of oil and I use it under severe service driving (full time pizza delivery). I can't tell any difference in the fuel efficiency while using Ceratec.
Thanks for the feedback. How many miles, on the average, do you leave the Ceratec in the engine?
I use synthetic oil, Redline for the last 50k kms, Amsoil before that. 16k kms intervals. Ceratec goes in every second oil change, or every 32k kms (20k miles). I alternate at oic between Ceratec and Lubeguard Biotech. I'm thinking about using Maxlife down the road...
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Originally Posted By: dino33
I use synthetic oil, Redline for the last 50k kms, Amsoil before that. 16k kms intervals. Ceratec goes in every second oil change, or every 32k kms (20k miles). I alternate at oic between Ceratec and Lubeguard Biotech. I'm thinking about using Maxlife down the road...
Thanks for the reply again. It seems that it is a reasonable interval to me. Have you ever thought of doing a UOA or maybe you have done in the past?
I use synthetic oil, Redline for the last 50k kms, Amsoil before that. 16k kms intervals. Ceratec goes in every second oil change, or every 32k kms (20k miles). I alternate at oic between Ceratec and Lubeguard Biotech. I'm thinking about using Maxlife down the road...
Thanks for the reply again. It seems that it is a reasonable interval to me. Have you ever thought of doing a UOA or maybe you have done in the past?
Never did a UOA. Where I live the shipping is expensive. I just figure I'd give her the best fluids in an attempt to get as much life out of her as possible. I also change the tranny fluid regularly, as well as the coolant and so far it's worked out great. It's been the most reliable car I've ever known. Now, if I could just find an additive for the hybrid battery.
Been lurking for years, but first post! Been reading everything I can.
Am considering adding Ceratec to a 2015 Nissan Rogue, 4 cyl, gas engine, with 15,000 miles on it, just to maybe help with its longevity. Curious if it leaves any color trace to the used oil. Car has a 2 yr, free oil change service, and Nissan will be changing the oil for another year. It gets changed now every 2 months, which is about 5,000 miles. Will they see the Ceratec when they change the oil. Same question, but with LM Mos2 additive. And quite off topic...my Napa has both Liqui Moly, and Lubro Moly, what the difference?
Am considering adding Ceratec to a 2015 Nissan Rogue, 4 cyl, gas engine, with 15,000 miles on it, just to maybe help with its longevity. Curious if it leaves any color trace to the used oil. Car has a 2 yr, free oil change service, and Nissan will be changing the oil for another year. It gets changed now every 2 months, which is about 5,000 miles. Will they see the Ceratec when they change the oil. Same question, but with LM Mos2 additive. And quite off topic...my Napa has both Liqui Moly, and Lubro Moly, what the difference?
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