Drivers upset as hybrids fall short on fuel economy

keith · Jun 10, 2004

Drivers upset as hybrids fall short on fuel economy

Some strange quotes in that article, such as "Poor fuel economy has been among hybrid owners' top gripes, according to consultant J.D. Power and Associates, as much as three times as high as for other small cars and even surpassing that of owners of gas-thirsty sport-utility vehicles"

I don't know any hybrid owners to ask, but can you really get SUV like mileage out of a Toyota Prius?

Keith.

ALS · Jun 10, 2004

That is the second article I've seen with the same complaint. The other story was pretty telling
on the real mileage. Jetta VS Prius

I love the excuse Toyota put out " The company also says the computer is nearly 100% accurate. But how much gas its flexible bladder takes at the pump varies from less than 10 gallons to the full 11.9 gallons. Toyota said I probably began the trip with less gas than I thought. "

I'll keep my 87 740 Turbo Wagon at least I know that I will get 32 plus mpg on the highway at 65 mph. EPA rated 25 mpg at 55 mph

benjamming · Jun 10, 2004

I believe the EPA highway rating is at 48 mph based on the 55 mph national speed limit (good riddance & never come back).

tweeker43 · Jun 10, 2004

epa mileage tends to be overstated, as it is a calculated method and not an actual test method.

also, hybrids tend to get fabulous mileage in town/city driving when the regenerative brakes are used. highway mileage will be poor. these are city cars, meant to be driven conservatively. i've no doubt that people are getting crappy mileage, but i bet i know why.

labman · Jun 11, 2004

I know my daughter is very happy with her Insight. I think she gets somewhere in the 40's around town and over 50 on a trip. With 2 of them and a large Lab, they sometimes travel fairly well loaded.

UberWRX · Jun 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by ALS:

I'll keep my 87 740 Turbo Wagon at least I know that I will get 32 plus mpg on the highway at 65 mph. EPA rated 25 mpg at 55 mph

Hey, ALS!

I recently purchased a '90 Volvo 740T wagon that has 206K miles. Despite its age and mileage, it runs pretty well.

Sure wish there were some Volvo shops nearby. Oh well . . .

Now I gotta change my username, since I'm selling my WRX this weekend.

Matt_S · Jun 11, 2004

I understand that the EPA rating IS measured by putting the car on a dyno and running it at various speeds for a certain length of time. The city rating is primarily slow speeds with stop and go driving and a 25 mph (approx) average speed. The highway is primarily steady speed with some variation and a higher average speed (48 sounds about right, but I'm not sure). It is only the combined rating that is calculated as a weighted average of the city and highway.

Personally, I regularly get better than the EPA rating on my car.

cryptokid · Jun 11, 2004

in order to get good mileage in a prius, you really need to drive it the way it was meant to be drove. you cant just stop go stop go and expect it to do its thing. theres a certain science involved with the gas petal, coasting timing stoplights, and etc.

for example, if you know you need to stop at a stoplight ahead, let off the gas farther back down the road and let the generative brakes slow you down instead of using the brake petal. the geren brakes do a pretty **** good job at making you stop. dont just come up on a stoplight quickly and use the brakes hard, this wastes energy. if you give the regenerative brakes time to slow you down, then when you take off again you will be using electric power instead of gas power to accelerate. let the brakes recharge the batteries, not the motor.
this is one of the keys to getting great mileage out of the prius. most people dont understand this, and they just drive a hybrid like a typical person drives and never fully utilise regenerative braking or the other features of the prius.
another thing is parking lot driving. if you click the car into reverse and backout of a parking space, be easy on the gas petal and the gas engine will not start up. then click the thing into drive and drive around the parking lot, again using the gas petal easy. this will be all electric power that is FREE because of youre previous regenerative braking on the highway and such.
most people dont do this. they put the car in gear and give it alot of throttle to get going quickly so that the gas engine starts up and moves them.
most people never use a hybrid to its true potential, and such a hybrid is useless for most people.
my uncle mike was explaining this to me. he has a prius, and it took him a few months to fully master the hybrid portion of the car. he said anyone can just get in and drive the thing, but it takes practice to learn how to operate the hybrid portion.

toyota and other car companys should have a weekend course that you can attend to teach you how to drive a hybrid to its fullest potential.
you can make a prius get 25mpg, or 75mpg, it just depends on how you drive the thing.

tweeker43 · Jun 11, 2004

epa pdf file

they do some testing of the vehicle under driving conditions. personally, i think the test needs a little updating.

other links:
wired article

fuel economy.gov link

brianl703 · Jun 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by cryptokid:
for example, if you know you need to stop at a stoplight ahead, let off the gas farther back down the road and let the generative brakes slow you down instead of using the brake petal. the geren brakes do a pretty **** good job at making you stop. dont just come up on a stoplight quickly and use the brakes hard, this wastes energy.

You can drive almost any car that way and save gas--the fuel injectors are usually completly off when coasting, so therefore the longer you coast, the more fuel you save.

msparks · Jun 11, 2004

quote:

The odometer said 535 miles when I arrived at USA TODAY headquarters in McLean, Va. The Jetta used 12.2 gallons of diesel fuel. That's 44 miles a gallon, on the nose for the car's highway fuel economy rating.

The fuel cost $21.35.

The trip from McLean back to Ann Arbor in the Prius using a slightly different route was 549 miles.

While in stop-and-go traffic, the Prius often ran on battery power, driving home the point that it is most efficient in crawling, urban traffic.

The gas-tank warning light flashed after 422 miles. I drove 10 miles to the next gas station and filled up, putting 11.1 gallons into the 11.9-gallon tank. That would indicate 38 mpg, far short of the 51 mpg government rating. The car's trip computer told me it had been getting 51.7 mpg.

Irv Miller, Toyota vice president for corporate communication, says the mileage shortfall probably had to do with speed. "The government test that puts the Prius' highway mileage at 51 mpg is based on ideal driving conditions and going 55 mph," he says. I averaged 72 miles an hour on highways.

*** where did they get the milage for the Jetta?? Were the tires run with no air in them?? Did they keep it in 4th gear the whole time??

Just got back from a trip to Tennesse over memorial day. I got over 50 travelling in excess of 70mph, with runs up over 80 with the Air on.

I can image if I could hold the car at 55mph it would get near 60, but who can drive 55mph for 800 miles(that would be a tankfull at that speed.

My only guess is the dummies had automatics. Which is another dumb idea for a fuel effecient car.

BTW 721 miles and 14.4 gallons of Diesel fuel. @ $1.58/gallon!!

Too bad I didn't make up enough to pay the ticket I got for 55mph in a 35 which will be $150+ by the time I"m done paying the fine

msparks · Jun 11, 2004

OH,

In town mileage is usually 43-45 mpg. This is with my wife driving to work with NO highway miles.

FowVay · Jun 11, 2004

I don't believe they mentioned it in their article but I bet that the Jetta had a automatic transmission. The manual transmission model gets considerably better mileage.

Bugzii · Jun 11, 2004

Diesels rule!!!

Wait till 2006 comes along. We'll see more diesel options from VW/Audi.

JohnBrowning · Jun 11, 2004

MSSPARKS, That is not good at all for that Prius!! Gues we should only let urban dwellers own them! Heck My 2.4 Camry gets almost that millage. Last trip I took was all secondary HWY's and we were constantly forced to go 35-45 MPH frequented by my 120MPH pass's any chance I got on those two lane HWY's. I call it the HWY of He11 . It is litteed with nothing but slow arse farmers and old folks. THeir is no place to pass and it is one lane in each direction and nothing but hills. I had two adults, 3 kids, clotheing and food stuff for a couple of days and the A/C running the entire time! I got 30.89 miles to the gallon. When I am not constantly accelerating from 35-45 to 70 and passing long stings of tractors and slow arse old peopel I often get 35 miles to the gallon. This is running midgrade and Lucas UCL.

[ June 11, 2004, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

Shannow · Jun 11, 2004

As I posted before, we've got a Prius at work (to show how environmentally aware we are at the power stations).

I've been disappointed with it, as it has averaged 20km/l (56MPG Aus, 47MPG US).

It's useage involves some site running, but mostly 100km/hr between the power stations (20 mile round trip). I know that people use the friction braking rather than regenerative, and regen does make a difference.

A workmate's turbodiesel pug (2 generations old) gets the same highway mileage, and the new models pick up about another 5%.

For highway, hybrids aren't any sort of answer.

Driven properly in traffic and town condiditons, they do have advantages.

JohnBrowning · Jun 11, 2004

THe problem is that people are not useing them as they were intended to be used. A hybryd is not going to do a darn thing for you if you are driveing 90MPH on the HWY!! They were not meant for that. THey were ment to be used in the city. If someone wants a car for lots of hwy driveing they are much better off with car designed for it like Geo Metro, A Carolla, an Aveo etc...... Diesel are great but your selection is almost zero!

keith · Jun 12, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bugzii:
Diesels rule!!!

Wait till 2006 comes along. We'll see more diesel options from VW/Audi.

In 2006 you will have ZERO Diesels from VW/Audi except for the useless Toe-Rag.

New VW diesels

"Low-sulfur diesel fuel being phased in under federal regulations should help, but anti-pollution rules get stricter about the time low-sulfur diesel is available. Diesel vehicle marketers, in fact, aren't sure they'll keep selling diesels in the USA after 2006."

Keith.

Shannow · Jun 12, 2004

keith, that really is "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", isn't it ?

My diesel utility gets fully 50% further from every litre of fuel than its petrol bretheren.

Wanna extend CAFE by at least 25% in one fell swoop ? switch to diesel, or OCP with petrol.

flynavydiesel · Jun 12, 2004

Diesel cars and vans are the way to go now, it a good technology that is readily accessable and gets excellent mileage. Actually better than the hybrid's!!! Plus you do not have the end of life cycle cost of getting rid of those batteries! Where are those going?

Drivers upset as hybrids fall short on fuel economy

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