Did I fix alternator by washing the car?

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So, I purchased this 2003 Saturn Ion2 sedan with 135000 miles cheap because of "mechanical problem". This is for my kid and to teach him some car wrenching. The problem turned out to be dead battery and non-charging alternator. In some ways the car is neglected (filthy, black brake fluid, OEM spark plugs, burned out bulbs), in some other ways it was taken care of (clean ATF and engine oil, new brakes, decent tires).

I paid for used alternator with low miles on ebay and waiting for delivery. In the meantime, We are cleaning and fixing things.

The alternator actually started charging after scrubbing the car, including the engine. The engine was especially dirty. I used one of those engine degreasers in a can that smelled like diesel, rinsed with water, and dried before starting. When it started, the alternator worked (about 14V).

While I'll go ahead and replace the alternator and belt, but why would cleaning do that fix, even if temporary? BTW, The old belt looks decent and works fine (ie AC and WP working).
 
On a side note one thing I always include in yearly battery terminal cleaning etc is to blow out the alternator. I remember rebuilding one yrs ago (new bearings) and was surprised by the amount of dirt that was in there. It was farm truck used in dusty fields etc so that could have contributed to it.
 
I would remove and wire brush, grease all battery and alternator connections.

If it works I would keep the EBAY alternator as a spare for awhile. No guarantee its better than the one you have in there.
 
might be worn brushes in the alternator.. can cause intermittent charging.. Would probably still replace.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
You should never get water into electrical parts. It could be an oily belt that was slipping.


I'm not a fan of engine cleaning, especially with water, but that thing had to cleaned, it was mostly caked dust, not so much oil. I have no idea where the previous owner was driving that car, but he was not into cleaning.

I did blow most water off with leaf blower before restarting.

Here is an auction picture of the engine. In reality it was worse.

28789054_7X.JPG
 
Most engines get doused with water if you drive in rain. Worse if you drive through puddles. I'd rather kill it in the driveway than on the road, if it really was prone to dieing from getting wet.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
You should never get water into electrical parts. It could be an oily belt that was slipping.


IIRC, if the alternator pulley is turning then it is supposed to be charging...

I went through issue with charging issues on a certain car. Was asking if "the belt was tight enough." Turned out to be a bum alternator... not working OR wired properly. And it was mentioned that, unless you maybe have a Porsche, that if the belt is turning the pulley that it should be charging...

Agreed that care should be taken to keep water out of electrical parts.

And did that alternator drop a diode? Have you taken it out and looked at it?

My guess is that a connection wasnt being made. I had a car with this issue. LOOSE ALTERNATOR PLUG. When plugged in, it works perfect. Just need to find a way to get it to not slip out...

And yes, the enfine washing seems to have done something, somewhere, to let current flow. I would replace alternator.

I have a spare alternator as well, too.
 
Could it be something as simple as dirty commutator?

BTW, the alternator did not charge before the wash, but the battery light was off. Does it help with the diagnosis?

EDIT: It might.

Quote:
The three main problems with generators are: (1) worn brushes, (2) dirty, burnt, or pitted commutator segments, (3) mechanical problems such as bent shaft, slipping belt, or failed bearings.

http://smallengineinformation.com/?page_id=433
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Could it be something as simple as dirty commutator?

BTW, the alternator did not charge before the wash, but the battery light was off. Does it help with the diagnosis?

EDIT: It might.

Quote:
The three main problems with generators are: (1) worn brushes, (2) dirty, burnt, or pitted commutator segments, (3) mechanical problems such as bent shaft, slipping belt, or failed bearings.

http://smallengineinformation.com/?page_id=433

Alternators don't have commutators that make contact with the brushes, which are contacts with gaps to change polarity when rotating in DC generators or motors. Commutators are prone to fast wear. They have slip rings instead that make contact with the brushes. So, the terminology in that blog is wrong.

If the charge light was off, the alternator was probably OK. Perhaps it was dirty battery terminal or battery wire (negative or positive) or loose wire or terminal. It could be a loose or dirty alternator wire as well. Perhaps the latter is more likely since the car was cranking OK.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Alternators don't have commutators that make contact with the brushes, which are contacts with gaps to change polarity when rotating in DC generators or motors. Commutators are prone to fast wear. They have slip rings instead that make contact with the brushes. So, the terminology in that blog is wrong.


Thanks for the clarification.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

If the charge light was off, the alternator was probably OK. Perhaps it was dirty battery terminal or battery wire (negative or positive) or loose wire or terminal. It could be a loose or dirty alternator wire as well. Perhaps the latter is more likely since the car was cranking OK.


It's my understanding that alternators can fail without battery light on. I actually had that happen in my old Nissan once. The voltage at battery was 12V with engine running and new battery was discharged a lot by the time I brought the car home, so alternator was not OK.

All the battery/alternator connections were good and tight. This is a florida car with no rust.

I'll take that alternator apart when I replace it. I'm waiting for the new one to arrive.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Alternators don't have commutators that make contact with the brushes, which are contacts with gaps to change polarity when rotating in DC generators or motors. Commutators are prone to fast wear. They have slip rings instead that make contact with the brushes. So, the terminology in that blog is wrong.


Thanks for the clarification.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

If the charge light was off, the alternator was probably OK. Perhaps it was dirty battery terminal or battery wire (negative or positive) or loose wire or terminal. It could be a loose or dirty alternator wire as well. Perhaps the latter is more likely since the car was cranking OK.


It's my understanding that alternators can fail without battery light on. I actually had that happen in my old Nissan once. The voltage at battery was 12V with engine running and new battery was discharged a lot by the time I brought the car home, so alternator was not OK.

All the battery/alternator connections were good and tight. This is a florida car with no rust.

I'll take that alternator apart when I replace it. I'm waiting for the new one to arrive.



Yes, I concur. The charge light being off makes me think that there was a loose connection somewhere. I'd look first at the plug on the alternator- sometimes the little female pins will get loose and not make proper contact.
 
update:
replaced with "new" used one: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3587183#Post3587183

took the old alternator apart and it wasn't even that dirty inside (as opposed to outside) and there is no way cleaner/water got to the brushes/sliprings. the brushes were not completely worn either. i'm at loss to explain why it didn't work when I purchased it, could be weird coincidence, but this is probably why the previous owner donated the "broken" car.
 
Well, incidentally, my alternator makes noise from time to time and, a month ago, I bought a DENSO OEM alternator that was remanufactured in Japan to replace it but never got a chance to do so. Then, a few days ago, the battery got very weak. It cranks very slowly now. The charge light does not come on but the stereo goes on and off occasionally while I am driving. I am hoping that the car will still drive until the weekend, when I am hoping to replace the alternator. Hopefully the battery is OK.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Well, incidentally, my alternator makes noise from time to time and, a month ago, I bought a DENSO OEM alternator that was remanufactured in Japan to replace it but never got a chance to do so. Then, a few days ago, the battery got very weak. It cranks very slowly now. The charge light does not come on but the stereo goes on and off occasionally while I am driving. I am hoping that the car will still drive until the weekend, when I am hoping to replace the alternator. Hopefully the battery is OK.

The strange thing is that yesterday the battery charged again. So, it appears that the alternator sometimes works OK and sometimes it hardly works, probably because it has reached the end of its life. Note that the charge light doesn't come on, meaning the alternator still produces a small current, hardly enough to run the car though. So, the answer to OP's question might be the same -- the alternator is too old and it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. It's random and has nothing to do with washing.

I'll replace it soon and see if the battery is still good.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Well, incidentally, my alternator makes noise from time to time and, a month ago, I bought a DENSO OEM alternator that was remanufactured in Japan to replace it but never got a chance to do so. Then, a few days ago, the battery got very weak. It cranks very slowly now. The charge light does not come on but the stereo goes on and off occasionally while I am driving. I am hoping that the car will still drive until the weekend, when I am hoping to replace the alternator. Hopefully the battery is OK.

The strange thing is that yesterday the battery charged again. So, it appears that the alternator sometimes works OK and sometimes it hardly works, probably because it has reached the end of its life. Note that the charge light doesn't come on, meaning the alternator still produces a small current, hardly enough to run the car though. So, the answer to OP's question might be the same -- the alternator is too old and it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. It's random and has nothing to do with washing.

I'll replace it soon and see if the battery is still good.

Well, the DENSO remanufactured alternator made in Japan is in and working beautifully. The idle voltage measured 14.34 volts, just at the OEM spec of 14.3 volts. Open-circuit battery voltage was 12.3 and it rose to 12.5 in 15 minutes. Open-circuit voltage for fully charge battery is apparently supposed to be 12.6 V. It's probably around there already.

I also noticed that the belt tension was quite small, probably about half the OEM spec. I don't know if this was a factor in the poor performance of the old alternator, which was almost 15-year-old. I probably should have changed the belt as well while the alternator was swung but kept the old belt. It didn't seem to have excess wear. Retensioned after installation to OEM spec by measuring deflection for about 10 lb index-finger pressure applied and using the formula below.

(Deflection of belt) = (0.25)*(span Length of belt between the two pulleys where the force is applied)*(force applied on belt)/(belt tension)
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
So, the answer to OP's question might be the same -- the alternator is too old and it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. It's random and has nothing to do with washing.


You're probably right. It's annoying the battery light is useless half of the time. The old style automotive voltometer and amperometer had a lot of sense. Too bad the car computers are not able to monitor those simple things anymore.
 
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