how hard can a tranny rebuild be anyway?
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Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Biggest problem is the special tools that are needed.
Wait, the only special tools needed is the seal protectors,seal removal tool,digital calipers,straight rule, feeler gauges,snap pliers and a in/lbs. Torqe wrench.
Most of these you should have already.
Biggest problem is the special tools that are needed.
Wait, the only special tools needed is the seal protectors,seal removal tool,digital calipers,straight rule, feeler gauges,snap pliers and a in/lbs. Torqe wrench.
Most of these you should have already.
Originally Posted By: EvanD
I need my 4l65e rebuilt annd beefed up a little. Really how hard can it be to do. Toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual.
Has anyone on here tried it themselves. Not being cheap. It has to be possible by a backyard mechanic.
Did I read somewhere on here you are going to Super Charge your LQ9?
Do yourself a favor & install a 4L80E, A Stock 4L80E with a good converter will handle more power than ANY 4L60E/4L65E no matter what parts are installed, Who builds it, Or how much money you throw at it.
The 4L65E has some major weaknesses....
The 3-4 Clutch diameter is to small, The band-aide for this is to add more friction plates, To do this you have to reduce the thickness of the steels & frictions, It does increase friction area but you lose the ability to shed heat. The 3-4 clutch builds ALOT of heat. Sonnax makes a Input Drum to accept 9 full thickness frictions & full thickness steels, However the Input Drum cost over $600.
The 3-4 Apply Piston is to small, It just CANNOT apply enough clamping force to the 3-4 clutches to hold big power. No fix for this...And never will be.
The Turbine Shaft is pressed into the aluminum Input Drum, High HP/Torque will crack the Drum, Sonnax Input Drums are sleeved.
The Forward Input Sprag is weak, A 29 element Borg Warner sprag is the best you can do. Under heavy abuse the Sprag Race will bust, No fix for this.
The Reaction Sun-Shell is weak where it splines into the rear Sun Gear, The Sonnax Smart Shell fixes this.
Pump Vane Rings break, From increased load from higher line pressure &/or high RPM, Trans Go hardened pump rings fix this.
Actuator Feed Limit (AFL) Valve Bore wears in the Valve Body, Causing lower than commanded clutch apply pressure, Reaming the bore to a larger size & installing a oversized AFL valve is the only fix...The Jig & Reamer kit alone is $400., At 200K you HAVE AFL bore wear.
TCC PWM Isolator Valve Bore wear is given on this unit, Trans Go has a valve to fix this without Reaming/Oversized valve, Though in my opinion reconditioning is the "correct" way to fix it.
Planetary Lube Circuit has low volume, 99% of Planet failures are lube related, No Fix...GM did all they going to do. It is better than it used to be in the early 80's 700R4's, That's not saying much. 250,000 is the max life expectancy, Some Go more, Most go less.
A 4L80E swap will require.
2500HD Cooler Lines.
ISS connector & minor wiring mods.
2500HD Flexplate, Spacer, Flexplate bolts.
6 Torque Converter bolts.
Transmission Crossmember mods, Fabrication required.
Shortened front section of the Drive Shaft & balancing.
4L80E "Segment Swap" in the PCM, (Tuning).
I have been building 4L60E's & 4L80E's for over 20 years, I'm willing to help whatever route you choose to go.
I need my 4l65e rebuilt annd beefed up a little. Really how hard can it be to do. Toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual.
Has anyone on here tried it themselves. Not being cheap. It has to be possible by a backyard mechanic.
Did I read somewhere on here you are going to Super Charge your LQ9?
Do yourself a favor & install a 4L80E, A Stock 4L80E with a good converter will handle more power than ANY 4L60E/4L65E no matter what parts are installed, Who builds it, Or how much money you throw at it.
The 4L65E has some major weaknesses....
The 3-4 Clutch diameter is to small, The band-aide for this is to add more friction plates, To do this you have to reduce the thickness of the steels & frictions, It does increase friction area but you lose the ability to shed heat. The 3-4 clutch builds ALOT of heat. Sonnax makes a Input Drum to accept 9 full thickness frictions & full thickness steels, However the Input Drum cost over $600.
The 3-4 Apply Piston is to small, It just CANNOT apply enough clamping force to the 3-4 clutches to hold big power. No fix for this...And never will be.
The Turbine Shaft is pressed into the aluminum Input Drum, High HP/Torque will crack the Drum, Sonnax Input Drums are sleeved.
The Forward Input Sprag is weak, A 29 element Borg Warner sprag is the best you can do. Under heavy abuse the Sprag Race will bust, No fix for this.
The Reaction Sun-Shell is weak where it splines into the rear Sun Gear, The Sonnax Smart Shell fixes this.
Pump Vane Rings break, From increased load from higher line pressure &/or high RPM, Trans Go hardened pump rings fix this.
Actuator Feed Limit (AFL) Valve Bore wears in the Valve Body, Causing lower than commanded clutch apply pressure, Reaming the bore to a larger size & installing a oversized AFL valve is the only fix...The Jig & Reamer kit alone is $400., At 200K you HAVE AFL bore wear.
TCC PWM Isolator Valve Bore wear is given on this unit, Trans Go has a valve to fix this without Reaming/Oversized valve, Though in my opinion reconditioning is the "correct" way to fix it.
Planetary Lube Circuit has low volume, 99% of Planet failures are lube related, No Fix...GM did all they going to do. It is better than it used to be in the early 80's 700R4's, That's not saying much. 250,000 is the max life expectancy, Some Go more, Most go less.
A 4L80E swap will require.
2500HD Cooler Lines.
ISS connector & minor wiring mods.
2500HD Flexplate, Spacer, Flexplate bolts.
6 Torque Converter bolts.
Transmission Crossmember mods, Fabrication required.
Shortened front section of the Drive Shaft & balancing.
4L80E "Segment Swap" in the PCM, (Tuning).
I have been building 4L60E's & 4L80E's for over 20 years, I'm willing to help whatever route you choose to go.
Last edited:
I usually just fix mine instead:
http://www.feoa.net/threads/how-to-replace-1-2-shift-solenoid-on-atx-1991.82837/
http://www.feoa.net/threads/atratb039-02-01-1991-a-t-g4a-el-4eat-low-pump-pressure.61690/
Having said that, if I had to rebuild my transmission, the thing that's most likely to stop me is the weight of the transmission. I must be doing something right, since the transmission has over 225K miles in it.
http://www.feoa.net/threads/how-to-replace-1-2-shift-solenoid-on-atx-1991.82837/
http://www.feoa.net/threads/atratb039-02-01-1991-a-t-g4a-el-4eat-low-pump-pressure.61690/
Having said that, if I had to rebuild my transmission, the thing that's most likely to stop me is the weight of the transmission. I must be doing something right, since the transmission has over 225K miles in it.
Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan
Man I'd do it myself, even if you screw up... know you did it correctly.
How does that work? Would do your own surgery too? A transmission rebuilder is not a "mechanic", he is a trained professional in a specialized field.
Man I'd do it myself, even if you screw up... know you did it correctly.
How does that work? Would do your own surgery too? A transmission rebuilder is not a "mechanic", he is a trained professional in a specialized field.
When I was an apprentice mechanic, we used to rebuild a lot of BTR 4 speed automatics used in the Ford Falcon from 1990 onward. I reckon I assisted on 10 rebuilds, and was then supervised on another 5 or so before I was deemed competent to fly solo...and this was at a Ford dealer with a "clean room", and every special tool and manual required. Rebuilding a tranny is not a backyard job, and you can't possibly learn all the little tricks of the trade just by watching a YouTube video.
Originally Posted By: asand1
Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan
Man I'd do it myself, even if you screw up... know you did it correctly.
How does that work? Would do your own surgery too? A transmission rebuilder is not a "mechanic", he is a trained professional in a specialized field.
If it's a localized surgery, i.e. removing foreign debris from an accessible part of my body, then I'd give it a shot, LOL. (Just kidding btw)
The reason I say to do it yourself, especially if you have the time, is I've learned from experience that very few mechanics actually take the time and effort to do a job 100% correctly the first time. I've seen some lazy, thrown together [censored] roll out of many shops that should've never been allowed back into a customer's hands. I've also had to fix a few screw-ups from someone that should've known better.
Your call, either way. If you do decide to let someone have a go at it, I'd find other people locally that have had their 4l65E rebuilt and who they used to do it.
My own truck has Ford's "brainiac" of a transmission, the 5R110. After reading up on it, it's not something I feel comfortable tearing into on my own. However I found a local dealer tech who makes money on the side with a good reputation among local Powerstroke owners. He said he doesn't mind someone hanging out and learning how it's done either, so that's the route I'm going when mine fails.
Originally Posted By: Fordtrucktexan
Man I'd do it myself, even if you screw up... know you did it correctly.
How does that work? Would do your own surgery too? A transmission rebuilder is not a "mechanic", he is a trained professional in a specialized field.
If it's a localized surgery, i.e. removing foreign debris from an accessible part of my body, then I'd give it a shot, LOL. (Just kidding btw)
The reason I say to do it yourself, especially if you have the time, is I've learned from experience that very few mechanics actually take the time and effort to do a job 100% correctly the first time. I've seen some lazy, thrown together [censored] roll out of many shops that should've never been allowed back into a customer's hands. I've also had to fix a few screw-ups from someone that should've known better.
Your call, either way. If you do decide to let someone have a go at it, I'd find other people locally that have had their 4l65E rebuilt and who they used to do it.
My own truck has Ford's "brainiac" of a transmission, the 5R110. After reading up on it, it's not something I feel comfortable tearing into on my own. However I found a local dealer tech who makes money on the side with a good reputation among local Powerstroke owners. He said he doesn't mind someone hanging out and learning how it's done either, so that's the route I'm going when mine fails.
Originally Posted By: EvanD
I need my 4l65e rebuilt annd beefed up a little. Really how hard can it be to do. Toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual.
Has anyone on here tried it themselves. Not being cheap. It has to be possible by a backyard mechanic.
It can be extremely hard if you've never done it before. Since I have no idea what you're mechanical ability is my statements are not geared at you, they are generalizations. It's a lot more involved than just "toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual." Add to that if you don't have the proper tools for the job it can be costly to buy them and difficult or impossible to do without them. If you don't know how to inspect parts and determine if they're fit for continued use you can waste a lot of money or have a unit worse then when you started.
OTOH the only way to know and to learn is to try. It's nice to have a friend who knows what they're doing watch and teach you. Worst case is you waste a lot of time and money and have to seek help of a pro. Best case is you have a fully functional long lasting unit. Opinions vary.
I need my 4l65e rebuilt annd beefed up a little. Really how hard can it be to do. Toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual.
Has anyone on here tried it themselves. Not being cheap. It has to be possible by a backyard mechanic.
It can be extremely hard if you've never done it before. Since I have no idea what you're mechanical ability is my statements are not geared at you, they are generalizations. It's a lot more involved than just "toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual." Add to that if you don't have the proper tools for the job it can be costly to buy them and difficult or impossible to do without them. If you don't know how to inspect parts and determine if they're fit for continued use you can waste a lot of money or have a unit worse then when you started.
OTOH the only way to know and to learn is to try. It's nice to have a friend who knows what they're doing watch and teach you. Worst case is you waste a lot of time and money and have to seek help of a pro. Best case is you have a fully functional long lasting unit. Opinions vary.
I rebuild dozens of transmissions every year. That Being said there has been stuff I have missed before, something may work perfectly on a bench of the 4-5000 lb vehicle is much stronger of a load than your bench testing. Then you are pulling back out and going again
good times lol
Also I have put I many many remans in my day, I have had some that didn't even move out of the box, some that were maybe on the road for 1000 miles or less, some that leaked right out of the box, etc. this stuff is still mAn or woman built, put together, set up etc.
Even new units have been issues, less likely but been there too. You do enough of this stuff you see a lot of scenarios.
Also I have put I many many remans in my day, I have had some that didn't even move out of the box, some that were maybe on the road for 1000 miles or less, some that leaked right out of the box, etc. this stuff is still mAn or woman built, put together, set up etc.
Even new units have been issues, less likely but been there too. You do enough of this stuff you see a lot of scenarios.
Originally Posted By: EvanD
I need my 4l65e rebuilt annd beefed up a little. Really how hard can it be to do. Toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual.
Has anyone on here tried it themselves. Not being cheap. It has to be possible by a backyard mechanic.
do it, and post results. good luck.
I need my 4l65e rebuilt annd beefed up a little. Really how hard can it be to do. Toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual.
Has anyone on here tried it themselves. Not being cheap. It has to be possible by a backyard mechanic.
do it, and post results. good luck.
I got curios a few months ago, wondered if I could find an old 4l60 and rebuild. Mostly for fun, just to see if I could. My reading indicated that these are reputedly hard transmissions, relative to other automatics (which are not generally easy). I still think it would be fun to try but i suspect I'd give up after the disassembly part.
If I understand what you want to do, I'd start with a decent core, take it a part, and put it back together. With the old parts. If you feel confident, then buy gaskets and parts, and build up this one. Then keep your known good trans as a spare.
Oh: I wonder if keeping a spare cooler around is a good idea. Or at least a trans line filter. In case anything goes south.
If I understand what you want to do, I'd start with a decent core, take it a part, and put it back together. With the old parts. If you feel confident, then buy gaskets and parts, and build up this one. Then keep your known good trans as a spare.
Oh: I wonder if keeping a spare cooler around is a good idea. Or at least a trans line filter. In case anything goes south.
It's not difficult but you need to possess a high degree of attention to detail. Because the risks in a DIY transmission rebuild really comes down to the expense of parts, having a knowledgeable person put together a parts kit (with needed upgrades and tech support) that address GM OD transmission short-comings, and the time spent to R&R and do the bench work. Don't forget to factor in a rebuilt torque converter into the cost. Figure in a few more dollars for a new wiring harness and solenoids as well.
Do one thing (or a couple of things) wrong and you're going to either have to take it out again and disassemble it hoping you find the problem OR have it towed to a shop and pay for someone do do it all over again.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3322654/1
After I got the 4L60E back in the Safari and began filling the transmission with ATF, I cannot describe the buzz-kill when I didn't have reverse. After looking at the reverse hydraulic circuit diagram I was hoping that something wasn't right with the boost valve in the pump (one of kit provided upgrades and the easiest to remedy). I was relieved when I dropped the pan and saw a snap ring in the pan and the valve dangling from the pump.
Best of luck if you decide to tackle this yourself.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3555037/2
Do one thing (or a couple of things) wrong and you're going to either have to take it out again and disassemble it hoping you find the problem OR have it towed to a shop and pay for someone do do it all over again.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3322654/1
After I got the 4L60E back in the Safari and began filling the transmission with ATF, I cannot describe the buzz-kill when I didn't have reverse. After looking at the reverse hydraulic circuit diagram I was hoping that something wasn't right with the boost valve in the pump (one of kit provided upgrades and the easiest to remedy). I was relieved when I dropped the pan and saw a snap ring in the pan and the valve dangling from the pump.
Best of luck if you decide to tackle this yourself.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3555037/2
OP, are you getting your rebuild kit from Monster Transmission?
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: EvanD
I need my 4l65e rebuilt annd beefed up a little. Really how hard can it be to do. Toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual.
Has anyone on here tried it themselves. Not being cheap. It has to be possible by a backyard mechanic.
Did I read somewhere on here you are going to Super Charge your LQ9?
Do yourself a favor & install a 4L80E, A Stock 4L80E with a good converter will handle more power than ANY 4L60E/4L65E no matter what parts are installed, Who builds it, Or how much money you throw at it.
The 4L65E has some major weaknesses....
The 3-4 Clutch diameter is to small, The band-aide for this is to add more friction plates, To do this you have to reduce the thickness of the steels & frictions, It does increase friction area but you lose the ability to shed heat. The 3-4 clutch builds ALOT of heat. Sonnax makes a Input Drum to accept 9 full thickness frictions & full thickness steels, However the Input Drum cost over $600.
The 3-4 Apply Piston is to small, It just CANNOT apply enough clamping force to the 3-4 clutches to hold big power. No fix for this...And never will be.
The Turbine Shaft is pressed into the aluminum Input Drum, High HP/Torque will crack the Drum, Sonnax Input Drums are sleeved.
The Forward Input Sprag is weak, A 29 element Borg Warner sprag is the best you can do. Under heavy abuse the Sprag Race will bust, No fix for this.
The Reaction Sun-Shell is weak where it splines into the rear Sun Gear, The Sonnax Smart Shell fixes this.
Pump Vane Rings break, From increased load from higher line pressure &/or high RPM, Trans Go hardened pump rings fix this.
Actuator Feed Limit (AFL) Valve Bore wears in the Valve Body, Causing lower than commanded clutch apply pressure, Reaming the bore to a larger size & installing a oversized AFL valve is the only fix...The Jig & Reamer kit alone is $400., At 200K you HAVE AFL bore wear.
TCC PWM Isolator Valve Bore wear is given on this unit, Trans Go has a valve to fix this without Reaming/Oversized valve, Though in my opinion reconditioning is the "correct" way to fix it.
Planetary Lube Circuit has low volume, 99% of Planet failures are lube related, No Fix...GM did all they going to do. It is better than it used to be in the early 80's 700R4's, That's not saying much. 250,000 is the max life expectancy, Some Go more, Most go less.
A 4L80E swap will require.
2500HD Cooler Lines.
ISS connector & minor wiring mods.
2500HD Flexplate, Spacer, Flexplate bolts.
6 Torque Converter bolts.
Transmission Crossmember mods, Fabrication required.
Shortened front section of the Drive Shaft & balancing.
4L80E "Segment Swap" in the PCM, (Tuning).
I have been building 4L60E's & 4L80E's for over 20 years, I'm willing to help whatever route you choose to go.
take it to this guy.
Originally Posted By: EvanD
I need my 4l65e rebuilt annd beefed up a little. Really how hard can it be to do. Toss in a few new parts check a few clearances follow a manual.
Has anyone on here tried it themselves. Not being cheap. It has to be possible by a backyard mechanic.
Did I read somewhere on here you are going to Super Charge your LQ9?
Do yourself a favor & install a 4L80E, A Stock 4L80E with a good converter will handle more power than ANY 4L60E/4L65E no matter what parts are installed, Who builds it, Or how much money you throw at it.
The 4L65E has some major weaknesses....
The 3-4 Clutch diameter is to small, The band-aide for this is to add more friction plates, To do this you have to reduce the thickness of the steels & frictions, It does increase friction area but you lose the ability to shed heat. The 3-4 clutch builds ALOT of heat. Sonnax makes a Input Drum to accept 9 full thickness frictions & full thickness steels, However the Input Drum cost over $600.
The 3-4 Apply Piston is to small, It just CANNOT apply enough clamping force to the 3-4 clutches to hold big power. No fix for this...And never will be.
The Turbine Shaft is pressed into the aluminum Input Drum, High HP/Torque will crack the Drum, Sonnax Input Drums are sleeved.
The Forward Input Sprag is weak, A 29 element Borg Warner sprag is the best you can do. Under heavy abuse the Sprag Race will bust, No fix for this.
The Reaction Sun-Shell is weak where it splines into the rear Sun Gear, The Sonnax Smart Shell fixes this.
Pump Vane Rings break, From increased load from higher line pressure &/or high RPM, Trans Go hardened pump rings fix this.
Actuator Feed Limit (AFL) Valve Bore wears in the Valve Body, Causing lower than commanded clutch apply pressure, Reaming the bore to a larger size & installing a oversized AFL valve is the only fix...The Jig & Reamer kit alone is $400., At 200K you HAVE AFL bore wear.
TCC PWM Isolator Valve Bore wear is given on this unit, Trans Go has a valve to fix this without Reaming/Oversized valve, Though in my opinion reconditioning is the "correct" way to fix it.
Planetary Lube Circuit has low volume, 99% of Planet failures are lube related, No Fix...GM did all they going to do. It is better than it used to be in the early 80's 700R4's, That's not saying much. 250,000 is the max life expectancy, Some Go more, Most go less.
A 4L80E swap will require.
2500HD Cooler Lines.
ISS connector & minor wiring mods.
2500HD Flexplate, Spacer, Flexplate bolts.
6 Torque Converter bolts.
Transmission Crossmember mods, Fabrication required.
Shortened front section of the Drive Shaft & balancing.
4L80E "Segment Swap" in the PCM, (Tuning).
I have been building 4L60E's & 4L80E's for over 20 years, I'm willing to help whatever route you choose to go.
take it to this guy.
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