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#357775 - 05/21/04 09:19 AM Liberal versus Socialism?
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 6995
Loc: Colorado
How many people here think that the Democratic Party is now kind of a Socialistic Party? I am a Democrat and I consider myself a liberal. I believe in personal freedom (with reasonable laws and reasonable control of human behavior).

But the Democratic Party of today to me seems like a Socialistic Party that tries to control human behavior and everything that people do. Anybody agree?

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#357776 - 05/21/04 09:25 AM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
sbc350gearhead Offline


Registered: 06/26/03
Posts: 2556
Loc: Columbus Ohio
Yep.

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#357777 - 05/21/04 09:27 AM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
Dan4510 Offline


Registered: 05/19/03
Posts: 2363
Loc: Texas
The classical liberal would utterly rebuke what the Democratic party has become.

Dan

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#357778 - 05/21/04 09:33 AM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
When asked why I left the Democratic party ..I say "I didn't ..they left me" [I dont know]

I typically now vote for the most practical third party candidate ...usually Libertarian ..just as a protest to having both parties fight over how they're going to milk me. Taxes ..or debt (and eventually both)??? [crushedcar]

[Patriot]

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#357779 - 05/21/04 10:26 AM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 6995
Loc: Colorado
I feel that they left me too. There is a vast difference between what liberal Democrats were saying decades ago in the John Kennedy era compared to what they say today. It would be interesting to compare what Democrats were talking about 20-30 years ago as compared to the kind of stuff they say today. In fact it almost seems to me that the Democratic and Republican Parties have changed sides.

My one vote will go to George Bush. He might not be perfect but the country might be defended. I get very tired of all of these so-called 'liberals' in the Democratic Party who try to force nonsense upon people who do not agree at all with what the so-called 'liberals' are pushing.

I say let the people decide if they want marriage to go beyond a man and a woman. I say let the people decide if they want a Christmas display at their court house. I say let the people decide how this country is run and not have the country run by people who think they know everything. I say let there be personal freedom within reasonable bounds.

Am I wrong? Is this what America is supposed to be about?

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#357780 - 05/21/04 10:28 AM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
TooManyWheels Offline


Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 3666
Loc: Houston, Tex
I agree, and don't agree. The old saying holds true, the Democrats want to control what happens in the boardrooms (in regard to fairness, obeying laws, etc), the Republicans want to control what happens in the bedroom (and what you believe, where you go to church, treatment of women, who you marry, etc).

Switching sides is correct - Republicans used to trumpet freedom and small government, now they are radically changing the country in a different direction.

By the way, Socialism is not about controlling people. Socialism is about the people owning the means of production.

[ May 22, 2004, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]

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#357781 - 05/21/04 11:02 AM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
Dan4510 Offline


Registered: 05/19/03
Posts: 2363
Loc: Texas
Actually I would argue what we are seeing is the beginning stages of corporate fascism like there was during mussolini's italy. Corporations control government apparatus for their benefit to the detriment of the country and its citizens.

If everyone had any inkling of the dangers of our current fiat money system, that would be on the agenda to fix whether repulicans or demcrats ruled.

Dan

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#357782 - 05/21/04 03:11 PM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
needtoknow Offline


Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 456
Loc: North Carolina
Does anybody think the Republican Party is the same party it once was, belief in civil liberties, weak federal executive, inviolable constitution, balanced budget, and isolationist foreign policy? The "Red Baiting" comments of liberal, ie socialist, ie communist are so much hot air. From the vast number of "right wing" comments here it seems they too think human behavior should be controlled, so I guess you're going to have to come up with specifics.

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#357783 - 05/21/04 05:10 PM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
quote:
From the vast number of "right wing" comments here it seems they too think human behavior should be controlled,
NTK - If you extend the left and the right to their furthest extentions ...you merely exchange the "board of directors" for the "central commitee".

They both end up in some Orwellian nighmare. A Republican sees "1984" and says "Hey, that's a great way to run a business" ...a Democrat sees it and says "Hey, that's a great way to run a society". They both are heading in the same direction ..just employing somewhat different modalities to get there.

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#357784 - 05/21/04 05:53 PM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
Al Offline


Registered: 06/08/02
Posts: 13576
Loc: Elizabethtown, Pa
I think that its a matter of evolution-and the need to stay in power. Its not about basic phylosophy.

Both parties exist not to serve the government but to serve themselves. As huge money became available from lobyists the stakes went up. The Democrats (I think) had the better strategy-they reasoned that they needed votes to stay in business and tap the big bucks. They courted the more numerous "downtrodden", blacks,-those who needed government programs (too lazy to work). They already had the Unions bc of past history., but since Unions are going by the wayside they needed a bigger base. Fortunately for them the NEA came along and then they created new waves of Federal unions (Airport Security Workers). And of course they have the Lawyers who love to see money taken from the successful folks and companies and give it to the "downtrodden"...Very Smart strategedy by the Dems.

The Repubs were asleep at the switch. Previously they were happy to take money from the rich and businesses. Problem is that there are not enough votes here (More slackers than go getters). Hence Bush embracing the Hispanic vote and ultimately hoping to get illegals "legalized" =votes.

Unfortunately for the country-both plans are draining the treasury and ruining the country [crushedcar]

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#357785 - 05/21/04 07:42 PM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 20269
Loc: Colorado Springs
quote:
Originally posted by Dan4510:
The classical liberal would utterly rebuke what the Democratic party has become.

Dan

You hit the nail on the head [Cool] This explains why modern conservativism is about to, if not has already, surpassed modern liberalism in the US in terms of percentage of people that call themselves either one. I know too many hard core Democrats in my family that are union/crazy pro-labor that don't exactly like the Republican side of the coin, but dislike the democratic side even more.

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#357786 - 05/21/04 07:47 PM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
Drew99GT Offline


Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 20269
Loc: Colorado Springs
quote:
Originally posted by Al:

Unfortunately for the country-both plans are draining the treasury and ruining the country [crushedcar]

Hehe, the Treasury is already drained! With our trade defecit, we have to import something like several millions of dollars each day just to break even in currency markets and keep the dollar equalized.

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#357787 - 05/21/04 08:16 PM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
GSV Offline


Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Utah
It is kind of funny that every post in this thread seems to agree that the US govt. is spending itself out of control yet I've heard no candidates offer any prescription for some serious belt tightening on behalf of the govt.

I guess the focus groups tell these candidates to ignore spending. Sad.

I joined the Republican party as a protest to what the Democrats did and said about Medicare/Medicaid in the mid 90s. Calling 7.4% increases "mean spirited budget cuts" was insulting and dangerous.
I left the GOP when they proved themselves to be almost as full of **** a few years later.

When the US economy grows at say 2.5% anually and the govt. grows at 8-11% per year you are on the path towards something bad. Be it socialism or facism or a hybrid of both.

[Cheers!] [Patriot]

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#357788 - 05/21/04 08:16 PM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
cousincletus Offline


Registered: 09/25/02
Posts: 2513
Loc: Richmond, VA
It really upsets me that so many good mfg. jobs are going overseas. I lost my good regular run hauling plastic pellets to an auto parts factory in Rochester, NY. They sent the operation to Mexico. It's really sad, because some of the people who worked there told me that they would have to leave the western NY area after living there all their lives. BTW this was a profitable company. It seems to me that socialism would be better than that. At least the jobs would stay here instead of going overseas where it does nobody in this country any good except for a priviliged few. I just can't see any good come from taking away a man's livelihood(sp?). [Cheers!]

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#357789 - 05/22/04 09:51 AM Re: Liberal versus Socialism?
motorguy222 Offline


Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1783
Loc: Ky
I must admit that I am very conservative person.I have very conservative beliefs.I believe that Modern Democrats are very socialistic.At our church there used to be a very wise and very respected Deacon(gone on now)and he once said that "socialism is not far from communism and that communism is not far from atheism".I believe this.The democratic party as a whole is becoming very socialistic,if not in some respects communist.If I have 50 Dallas,the democrats want to take half of it and give it to some one else.Christians cant pray at PUBLIC events that are on PUBLIC grounds any more,i.e.,school sporting events and graduations.This is wrong.According to surveys that have been done in the US,the majority are Christian.It is not fair to expect a Christian US citizen to keep silent because you don't want a Muslim,atheist or someone else to get offended.If I went to Saudi Arabia,I would not expect them to keep their prayers private when they have always been public and open.It has not been long ago that a school in California was teaching about Islam to the students.You cant wear necklaces with crosses on them at certain jobs.This is wrong.This is in my opinion communism at its very beginning.Democrats want to outlaw guns,make them at least almost impossible to get.In a city about 40-45 miles from me,the government there banned smoking in ALL of the restaurants in that county.This is not right.The government should not be allowed to ban smoking in a privately owned business,this is communism.If I own a business and allow people to smoke there,then that is my right and government should not be allowed to tell me that I cant allow smoking.The city government is controlled by democrats in the city mentioned.

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