Liberal versus Socialism?

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How many people here think that the Democratic Party is now kind of a Socialistic Party? I am a Democrat and I consider myself a liberal. I believe in personal freedom (with reasonable laws and reasonable control of human behavior).

But the Democratic Party of today to me seems like a Socialistic Party that tries to control human behavior and everything that people do. Anybody agree?
 
When asked why I left the Democratic party ..I say "I didn't ..they left me"
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I typically now vote for the most practical third party candidate ...usually Libertarian ..just as a protest to having both parties fight over how they're going to milk me. Taxes ..or debt (and eventually both)???
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I feel that they left me too. There is a vast difference between what liberal Democrats were saying decades ago in the John Kennedy era compared to what they say today. It would be interesting to compare what Democrats were talking about 20-30 years ago as compared to the kind of stuff they say today. In fact it almost seems to me that the Democratic and Republican Parties have changed sides.

My one vote will go to George Bush. He might not be perfect but the country might be defended. I get very tired of all of these so-called 'liberals' in the Democratic Party who try to force nonsense upon people who do not agree at all with what the so-called 'liberals' are pushing.

I say let the people decide if they want marriage to go beyond a man and a woman. I say let the people decide if they want a Christmas display at their court house. I say let the people decide how this country is run and not have the country run by people who think they know everything. I say let there be personal freedom within reasonable bounds.

Am I wrong? Is this what America is supposed to be about?
 
I agree, and don't agree. The old saying holds true, the Democrats want to control what happens in the boardrooms (in regard to fairness, obeying laws, etc), the Republicans want to control what happens in the bedroom (and what you believe, where you go to church, treatment of women, who you marry, etc).

Switching sides is correct - Republicans used to trumpet freedom and small government, now they are radically changing the country in a different direction.

By the way, Socialism is not about controlling people. Socialism is about the people owning the means of production.

[ May 22, 2004, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]
 
Actually I would argue what we are seeing is the beginning stages of corporate fascism like there was during mussolini's italy. Corporations control government apparatus for their benefit to the detriment of the country and its citizens.

If everyone had any inkling of the dangers of our current fiat money system, that would be on the agenda to fix whether repulicans or demcrats ruled.

Dan
 
Does anybody think the Republican Party is the same party it once was, belief in civil liberties, weak federal executive, inviolable constitution, balanced budget, and isolationist foreign policy? The "Red Baiting" comments of liberal, ie socialist, ie communist are so much hot air. From the vast number of "right wing" comments here it seems they too think human behavior should be controlled, so I guess you're going to have to come up with specifics.
 
quote:

From the vast number of "right wing" comments here it seems they too think human behavior should be controlled,

NTK - If you extend the left and the right to their furthest extentions ...you merely exchange the "board of directors" for the "central commitee".

They both end up in some Orwellian nighmare. A Republican sees "1984" and says "Hey, that's a great way to run a business" ...a Democrat sees it and says "Hey, that's a great way to run a society". They both are heading in the same direction ..just employing somewhat different modalities to get there.
 
I think that its a matter of evolution-and the need to stay in power. Its not about basic phylosophy.

Both parties exist not to serve the government but to serve themselves. As huge money became available from lobyists the stakes went up. The Democrats (I think) had the better strategy-they reasoned that they needed votes to stay in business and tap the big bucks. They courted the more numerous "downtrodden", blacks,-those who needed government programs (too lazy to work). They already had the Unions bc of past history., but since Unions are going by the wayside they needed a bigger base. Fortunately for them the NEA came along and then they created new waves of Federal unions (Airport Security Workers). And of course they have the Lawyers who love to see money taken from the successful folks and companies and give it to the "downtrodden"...Very Smart strategedy by the Dems.

The Repubs were asleep at the switch. Previously they were happy to take money from the rich and businesses. Problem is that there are not enough votes here (More slackers than go getters). Hence Bush embracing the Hispanic vote and ultimately hoping to get illegals "legalized" =votes.

Unfortunately for the country-both plans are draining the treasury and ruining the country
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quote:

Originally posted by Dan4510:
The classical liberal would utterly rebuke what the Democratic party has become.

Dan


You hit the nail on the head
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This explains why modern conservativism is about to, if not has already, surpassed modern liberalism in the US in terms of percentage of people that call themselves either one. I know too many hard core Democrats in my family that are union/crazy pro-labor that don't exactly like the Republican side of the coin, but dislike the democratic side even more.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Al:

Unfortunately for the country-both plans are draining the treasury and ruining the country
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Hehe, the Treasury is already drained! With our trade defecit, we have to import something like several millions of dollars each day just to break even in currency markets and keep the dollar equalized.
 
It is kind of funny that every post in this thread seems to agree that the US govt. is spending itself out of control yet I've heard no candidates offer any prescription for some serious belt tightening on behalf of the govt.

I guess the focus groups tell these candidates to ignore spending. Sad.

I joined the Republican party as a protest to what the Democrats did and said about Medicare/Medicaid in the mid 90s. Calling 7.4% increases "mean spirited budget cuts" was insulting and dangerous.
I left the GOP when they proved themselves to be almost as full of **** a few years later.

When the US economy grows at say 2.5% anually and the govt. grows at 8-11% per year you are on the path towards something bad. Be it socialism or facism or a hybrid of both.

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It really upsets me that so many good mfg. jobs are going overseas. I lost my good regular run hauling plastic pellets to an auto parts factory in Rochester, NY. They sent the operation to Mexico. It's really sad, because some of the people who worked there told me that they would have to leave the western NY area after living there all their lives. BTW this was a profitable company. It seems to me that socialism would be better than that. At least the jobs would stay here instead of going overseas where it does nobody in this country any good except for a priviliged few. I just can't see any good come from taking away a man's livelihood(sp?).
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Liberalism VS Socialism ?
Liberals today are Socialist borderline Marxists.
They stopped being liberals after the party was Hijacked in the late 60's by the Communists.
Joe Lieberman is a liberal along with Zel Miller the rest of the power brokers in the Democrat party are Communist/Marxists. I would say most of the elected Democrat's are conservative in their leanings but have to tow the party line to the letter or be tossed to the wolves. Lets face it to be elected in almost all of the major cities around the country you need to run as a democrat.
With out kissing the grand poo bah's butt and spouting the party line you can kiss any chances of the party supporting you and being elected.
There may be a change coming down the highway in the democrat party. Pittsburgh is a Beer and shot town that still has a Union mentality. Even with all it's problems at least two Democrat's have crossed over to the conservative side and won big. We just elected a Democrat County executive
Dan Onarato that acts and runs the county like the Republican before him should have. As a Republican I'll bet money he will pull at least 60 to 65% of the vote when he comes up for relection. The Republican Jim Roddey was more of the lets get along with the Democrats and not make waves.
Well Dan decided that 500 county employees are getting their pink slips by July 1st. Jim Roddey the Republican should have canned 1/2 of these people when he held the office.
There is a State Rep that thinks more like a Republican than a Democrat, Mike Diven from the south hills of the city.
He votes for what is best for his constituents than for the party line. The Democrat leadership pulled out every big gun they had including the Governor to campaign against him. They pulled every dirty trick, slander and down right lies about the man they could trying to make an example out of him for not towing the far leftist party line. Both these guys won big because they were what the people wanted a conservative Democrat not what the party wanted. I know most of you are not Ann Coulter fans but her book Treason explains what has happened to the Democratic party in the last 50 years. She backs up her book with real facts not bumper sticker slogans. Let me add even though the far leftists went totally nuts and caller her every name in the book over Treason, not one person on the left could point to a single thing she said in the book that was untrue. The far left is still trying to hide their real intentions for America by hiding behind the beliefs of Democrat's like Roosevelt, Truman, and Kennedy. Saying that these men thought as the Democrat's do today. It is a real eye opener to where the Democratic party has come from and after it was Hijacked to where it is going. It is no where close to being the party of the people any more it is the party of elitists. The People are not leaving the Democrat party the party has left them and their family and cultural values. Zel Miller D Ga. has a book out I want to read that is a nicer version of Ann's Treason. I think the title is A Party No More. If your a Democrat and can't bring yourself to reading Ann Coulter's book then read Zel Millers book. At least you will be hearing the truth about the Democrat Party from a real old time Democrat.

[ May 22, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: ALS ]
 
I have been a Democrat for a very long time and I KNOW that the Democratic Party has changed. It has been taken over by some strange elitists who do not think like the ordinary people and act like they came from another planet. A diseased tail wagging the dog.

The Democratic Party people I remember from the past were interested in civil rights for everybody, employment issues, things like that. They were not interested in forcing weird ideas down people's throats. They were not interested in allowing some weird judges the right to enforce gay marriage on society, without a vote of the people (and with a vote of the people it probably would have been voted down). They were not interested in forcing religious people to not be allowed Christmas displays in public places in a country that is overwhelmingly Christian. And at the same time allowing Moslems to have religious displays in public schools but not the Christian people. They were not interested in taking everybody's guns away.

The Democratic Party people I remember from the past often consisted of people in labor unions trying to obtain decent working conditions and fairness in the working place.

I say if you are a Democrat vote these weird elitist sick people out until the Democratic Party is forced to change and be the party it once was!
 
What makes me sick of both parties is their do what I say not what I do attitude. Gun control is one thing that sends me through the roof. Rosie O'Donnel wishes we were all disarmed but at the same time has armed guards. Worse than that she gets a "how dare you attitude" when confronted with being the hypocrite she is about it.

One of the worst was the journalist that argued for years to take all weapons away from people. Amazingly, he shot and intruder in his home. You can be assured of one thing--when common ownership of guns is gone, our freedoms will not be far behind.

Not to be one-sided, the latest and greatest "patriot act" is anything but that. It trades freedoms for "security." Anybody flown on a plane lately without having to show your papers?

Historical freedoms from search and seizure are disappearing left and right. Within the last two months a decision was handed down that allow police to search our home without a warrant if they feel "threatened." Among the founders this was the central premise that supported the rest of the consitution. The government must account for its actions when it invades your home. This is not true anymore under the republican regime.

Dan
 
You are right Dan4510. Take a look at Kerry. When he is talking to people in Detroit he is saying that he owns several SUVs. But when he is talking to some 'Green' environmental group he says that he does not own SUVs. And when confronted with his conflicting statements he says that his 'family' owns the SUVs. And I am supposed to vote for this guy because he is a Democrat? I don't think so.

There are some Catholics mad at Kerry right now because of some of his viewpoints. Now he is trying to get tight with the Catholics. Anybody who would believe anything this guy says is making a bad mistake. He says whatever people in a given area want to hear and frankly I don't even know his personal views-maybe he does not have any.

Give me a president who is his own man and can speak for himself, and has reasonable views on various subjects. Even if you don't agree with every single one of his viewpoints, at least give him credit for having the moral courage to state his viewpoints and to stand by what he believes in. I am tired of plastic politicians.

How come a country with 300 million people has such a hard time locating a real man (or real woman) to run for the highest office?
 
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