Bad timing? Toyota's Hydrogen Car

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Originally Posted By: Danno
When the extraction of hydrogen in energy costs more than the effective energy output, it can't be a winning solution.


I'm sure they thought of that.
 
Toyota has done a good job with the Prius and new technology like hydrogen for fuel has to start somewhere. The track record for new technology with Ford, GM, Mercedes, BMW and others isn't going anywhere. I certainly would bet against Toyota. With the American Gestapo (EPA) in charge, diesel for cars may have a limited future because they don't "like" it and no one is allowed to disagree with them. With our government there is no need for common sense or science. There does not even have to be an acceptable business model either. They could just pull another Solyndra or high speed rail stunt. Hydrogen fuel might be the political solution so there would be no requirements for practicality, common sense, science, infrastructure or a business model. When it comes to taxpayer's money their motto is "yes, we can".
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Danno
When the extraction of hydrogen in energy costs more than the effective energy output, it can't be a winning solution.


I'm sure they thought of that.


Proof?
 
Electric cars need batteries and where does the electricity come from to recharge the batteries??? The greenies have no clue.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Danno
When the extraction of hydrogen in energy costs more than the effective energy output, it can't be a winning solution.


I'm sure they thought of that.


Nope, they haven't, and you shouldn't give lobby groups, or those who can benefit from them even the slightest bit of intellectual credit.

India have an idea, and it's sound is that a wind/solar power station, remote from the grid buy close to a natural gas pipeline is efficiently utilised by making hydrogen to augment the gas supply to the tune of up to 10%...that's a sound judgement call to take renewables and augment the existing infrastructure
 
We just need a pipeline to the sun is all.

That would also help with the looming He shortage.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Danno
When the extraction of hydrogen in energy costs more than the effective energy output, it can't be a winning solution.

I'm sure they thought of that.

Nope, they haven't, and you shouldn't give lobby groups, or those who can benefit from them even the slightest bit of intellectual credit.

India have an idea, and it's sound is that a wind/solar power station, remote from the grid buy close to a natural gas pipeline is efficiently utilised by making hydrogen to augment the gas supply to the tune of up to 10%...that's a sound judgement call to take renewables and augment the existing infrastructure
 
Using Hydrogen is just a bad move unless conversion to gas is at zero percent loss to atmosphere, energy conversion back to water is at one hundred percent and there is zero leaks in millions of storage areas.
Hydrogen is to precious to loose any, all life depends on it.
 
What?

Originally Posted By: Koz1
Using Hydrogen is just a bad move unless conversion to gas is at zero percent loss to atmosphere, energy conversion back to water is at one hundred percent and there is zero leaks in millions of storage areas.
Hydrogen is to precious to loose any, all life depends on it.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
What?

Originally Posted By: Koz1
Using Hydrogen is just a bad move unless conversion to gas is at zero percent loss to atmosphere, energy conversion back to water is at one hundred percent and there is zero leaks in millions of storage areas.
Hydrogen is to precious to loose any, all life depends on it.


So when you say "What?"
What are you asking, must be more specific.

You do realize that water is mostly Hydrogen, thus precious to all.
Any hydrogen lost to atmosphere exits to space, lost to us.
Protecting hydrogen is a must to sustaining life on this planet.
Thinking of all life not just you.
 
You're kidding, right? That we could possibly lose enough hydrogen to negatively impact human life. For one, we will likely never dissociate water on a large scale due to the burdensome thermodynamic requirements. It will likely come from natural gas, if we ever use it at all.

Besides the great majority will be burned and not lost to the atmosphere. That will produce water vapor and replenish what was taken. What leaks and is lost is going to be beyond minuscule compared to the total hydrogen budget for this planet.

I'm surprised you're not worried about helium.

It reminds me of an article I read where people near a gas liquefaction plant were concerned it lowered the local concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere.

Originally Posted By: Koz1
Originally Posted By: kschachn
What?

Originally Posted By: Koz1
Using Hydrogen is just a bad move unless conversion to gas is at zero percent loss to atmosphere, energy conversion back to water is at one hundred percent and there is zero leaks in millions of storage areas.
Hydrogen is to precious to loose any, all life depends on it.

So when you say "What?"
What are you asking, must be more specific.

You do realize that water is mostly Hydrogen, thus precious to all.
Any hydrogen lost to atmosphere exits to space, lost to us.
Protecting hydrogen is a must to sustaining life on this planet.
Thinking of all life not just you.
 
I have to admit that's the first time I've ever heard that one. With everything else going on here on Earth, I can't think of something less worrisome. Aren't you more worried about the loss of oxygen through the combustion of that hydrogen?

Originally Posted By: Koz1
Any hydrogen lost to atmosphere exits to space, lost to us.
Protecting hydrogen is a must to sustaining life on this planet.
Thinking of all life not just you.
 
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Originally Posted By: kschachn
What?

Originally Posted By: Koz1
Using Hydrogen is just a bad move unless conversion to gas is at zero percent loss to atmosphere, energy conversion back to water is at one hundred percent and there is zero leaks in millions of storage areas.
Hydrogen is to precious to loose any, all life depends on it.


So when you say "What?"
What are you asking, must be more specific.

You do realize that water is mostly Hydrogen, thus precious to all.
Any hydrogen lost to atmosphere exits to space, lost to us.
Protecting hydrogen is a must to sustaining life on this planet.
Thinking of all life not just you.
grin.gif
grin.gif
grin.gif
 
If global hydrogen depletion through pipeline losses and subsequent escape into space is the reason, I'll buy you a beer. Promise.

Originally Posted By: Koz1
This why Humans will End themselves.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
If global hydrogen depletion through pipeline losses and subsequent escape into space is the reason, I'll buy you a beer. Promise.

Originally Posted By: Koz1
This why Humans will End themselves.


Will this be when the apes take over?

The ruling elite are manipulating the the cost of energy to keep new energy sources from being successful in the marketplace.

Coal, oil, and natural gas will be the primary fuels running the world economy until everyone gets all their money out of these "cash cow" energy sources.

When depleted, the ruling elite will move their assets to the next energy technology to exploit into the ground.

You can watch ExxonMobil and other energy companies moving in those directions through diversification already.

We can think we are making a difference with hybrid cars, hydrogen cars, and other green initiatives, but we are just kidding ourselves.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: kschachn
If global hydrogen depletion through pipeline losses and subsequent escape into space is the reason, I'll buy you a beer. Promise.

Originally Posted By: Koz1
This why Humans will End themselves.


Will this be when the apes take over?

The ruling elite are manipulating the the cost of energy to keep new energy sources from being successful in the marketplace.

Coal, oil, and natural gas will be the primary fuels running the world economy until everyone gets all their money out of these "cash cow" energy sources.

When depleted, the ruling elite will move their assets to the next energy technology to exploit into the ground.

You can watch ExxonMobil and other energy companies moving in those directions through diversification already.

We can think we are making a difference with hybrid cars, hydrogen cars, and other green initiatives, but we are just kidding ourselves.
If it will end gullible warming it will be worth it
shocked.gif
 
Considering that H20 gets split in the upper atmosphere everyday by solar radiation, I wouldn't get too worried about what we could do on any scale. Water vapor is constantly being produced by evaporation and some of that will end up high enough in the atmosphere to be split, it's a natural process that happens on a scale we can barely understand.
 
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