12 Challenger 392, M1 0w40, ~6k miles

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
8,856
Location
Texas
Did another spot-check on my 392, this was sampled back in September at about 26k miles on the engine. Filter was a Royal Purple synthetic. The first UOA on record (the 6/28/13 column) was with PU 0w40. The other two are M1 0w40.

Merry Christmas!

12CHALLENGER-090614_zps90dc6b7f.jpg
 
Great filtration. All trends look consistent with copper trending down.
Looks like dodge has a winner with the 392.
It's a sexy cubic inch number too.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Did another spot-check on my 392, this was sampled back in September at about 26k miles on the engine. Filter was a Royal Purple synthetic. The first UOA on record (the 6/28/13 column) was with PU 0w40. The other two are M1 0w40.

Merry Christmas!



Nice, thanks. That is the current fill in the Shelby and will be for a few more as I deplete my 0w40 M1 stash.
 
Originally Posted By: marc1
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Did another spot-check on my 392, this was sampled back in September at about 26k miles on the engine. Filter was a Royal Purple synthetic. The first UOA on record (the 6/28/13 column) was with PU 0w40. The other two are M1 0w40.

Merry Christmas!



Nice, thanks. That is the current fill in the Shelby and will be for a few more as I deplete my 0w40 M1 stash.


I just got an M1 stash. Got 7000 miles left to go on my Amsoil load first though in the truck.
 
Magnum

How us the vehicle operated.
What I'm asking is are you driving it pretty hard or are they easy miles,or something in between.

Thanks
 
Interesting about the Cu levels. Yours is going the right way. If the Cu comes from bearings, you would expect to have much higher levels of tin and lead in your history if the bearings were wearing into their happy spots.

Cu is a backing metal for bearings, it is covered with tin / lead overlay, so bearing wear would exhibit high tin & lead before the Cu got onto the UOA. Unless I have my head up somewhere dark?
 
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Interesting about the Cu levels. Yours is going the right way. If the Cu comes from bearings, you would expect to have much higher levels of tin and lead in your history if the bearings were wearing into their happy spots.

Cu is a backing metal for bearings, it is covered with tin / lead overlay, so bearing wear would exhibit high tin & lead before the Cu got onto the UOA. Unless I have my head up somewhere dark?

Many oil coolers are copper construction, and after fabrication in mass produced engines, they are likely not ultrasonic cleaned before being placed in service. So Cu particles break free and get into the oil.

Aluminum (and occasionally silver) are also used as bearing-backing materials.
 
I was also thinking of perhaps oil cooler, but I don't know the app. Seems more plausible than bearing wear in terms of likelihood.
 
Originally Posted By: CentAmDL650
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Interesting about the Cu levels. Yours is going the right way. If the Cu comes from bearings, you would expect to have much higher levels of tin and lead in your history if the bearings were wearing into their happy spots.

Cu is a backing metal for bearings, it is covered with tin / lead overlay, so bearing wear would exhibit high tin & lead before the Cu got onto the UOA. Unless I have my head up somewhere dark?

Many oil coolers are copper construction, and after fabrication in mass produced engines, they are likely not ultrasonic cleaned before being placed in service. So Cu particles break free and get into the oil.

Aluminum (and occasionally silver) are also used as bearing-backing materials.


In the case of coolers, the ones that have Cu exposed surfaces, the initial installation will not have loose particles ~ this would be checked ~ trust me on this, I've worked in auto industry for over 20 years. Besides, the oil filter will catch particles, so these will not be part of the UOA.

Having said that, the exposed copper surfaces do react with the oil on the first fill and then form an oxide that stops further exposure.

I think there might be another source for the Cu, perhaps it is assembly lube /anti seize that is flushing out?
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
With the copper and iron where it's at, I'd be looking for another oil.


Why??


Hello Doug



This post is a typical post from this member. If you look at his posts you'll see a trend develop.
Don't expect an answer that will satisfy. It'll just be nonsense.

Merry Christmas Doug.
 
The copper in Hemis (as in GM LSx engines) is pretty typical. They all do it, and it always trends down. Copper tends to leach into oil even from non-wearing surfaces in the oil flow path.

Everyone gets worried about copper because its the middle metal in tri-metal engine bearings. But as others have noted, before you even GET to the copper in tri-metal bearings, you have to have worn through all the babbitt (lead/zinc) overlay, and there's no lead at all showing. High copper with low lead is just never going to be a sign of a bearing issue.

And furthermore- I'm not even sure many modern engines even uses tri-metal bearings. Aluminum bearings were the norm in the 90s, and may still be.
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
With the copper and iron where it's at, I'd be looking for another oil.


Why??


Because whoever is behind that username has a long history of taking any and every opportunity to recommend something other than a Mobil product for no other reason than that its a Mobil product. Just ignore.
 
I am.

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
With the copper and iron where it's at, I'd be looking for another oil.

Not sure if troll.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top