Where is Flight MH370?

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: aa1986
CNN's coverage of this was an indictment on the media and their audience in this country.

If you had told me 10 - 20 years ago that "the most respected name in news" would headline with this story non stop for weeks and ask if a black hole was responsible, I would have said that it was a extreme fantasy sketch on Saturday Night Live.

Quote:
Lemon then turned to Mary Schiavo, former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation, and said, "I know it's preposterous, but is it preposterous, do you think, Mary?"

"It is," Schiavo replied. "A small black hole would suck in our entire universe. So we know it's not that. The Bermuda Triangle is often weather, and 'Lost' is a TV show."


I saw that!

And sadly, her response, while correct in dismissing the theory, showed a real ignorance of black holes....but she still felt empowered to speak with authority....


She got two out of three though.


I am glad that I am not the only one that found CNN's expletive for Flight MH-370... downright weird, strange, and creepy.

And it was months, not weeks. It was... the most reported thing I have ever seen.

I think they stuck witb it significantly longer than 9-11.

And, though *most* feel it is on the bottom... any CREDIBLE Zevidences to "it is somewhere else?" They sure have not told us much.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Trajan

All it means is that they haven't found a seat cushion in the open ocean. Which would make looking for a needle in a haystack child's play.

Exactly. Not to mention that there is lots of floating garbage on millions of square miles of oceans in that area.

 

[fdcg27]

I can guaratee you that I expect a great deal more expertise from someone who's spent thousands of hours in either seat of a commercial transport along with the periodic requirement to practice serious failures in sims than I would expect of me or someone else who's experience is confined to light singles.
The crew of AF 447 presumably still had reliable vertical speed and pitch indications as well as reliable engine performance indications.
This event also took at least some time from start to finish, since the aircraft was at altitude, although the terminal rate of decsent must have been thousands of FPM.
If AF teaches only full back stick and TOGA for stall recovery in Airbus aircraft with no alternative scenarios presented, then shame on Air France, especially since the A330 was known to suffer from frozen pitot static systems leading to a loss of reliable sirspeed indications.
This was a tragic accident, but the crew did end up putting a perfectly functional aircraft, lacking only reliable airpseed indication into the sea with the loss of all aboard.

 

[Astro14]

fdcg27 - I encourage you to read the entire report.

An over-reliance on automation, a training program that was overly trusting of engineered systems, an inexperienced crew, a difficult problem that they hadn't seen before. Over water, at night, in a storm. It's not simple. And many of us were astonished that they didn't recognize what was happening to them in the several minutes they had.

But it's never as simple as "crew error". And everyone in the industry revised training as a result. And few of us trust the engineers as much as AF did.

If I put you in the airplane, at night, IMC, and gave you the overspeed warning, horn blaring, red warning flashing, with no other warnings, what would you do? Almost everyone would reduce power and pull up. That's what the airplane was commanding.

But the airplane also had a subtle caution (designed to be a lower priority than a warning, warnings hide cautions due to their higher priority) that mentioned the pitot probe failure. And the loss of two tiny tick marks on the attitude display, denoting bank angle limiting, were the only clue that the airplane wasnt in normal law. The engineers didn't provide any other display of degraded flight controls, not even a caution.

The whole set up for the stall was due to engineering/display design.

And they diligently applied the recovery controls that they were taught would work.

Procedures designed by test pilots, based on engineering design.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Okay- where? Remember, you cant just set a big 'ole bird like this down in a field or some third world airstrip. Well, I suppose you could... but there would be no getting it back in the air again.


Right now it's being stored in a hanger over in Iran.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Okay- where? Remember, you cant just set a big 'ole bird like this down in a field or some third world airstrip. Well, I suppose you could... but there would be no getting it back in the air again.


Right now it's being stored in a hanger over in Iran.


As it didn't have the fuel to get there, how?

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Okay- where? Remember, you cant just set a big 'ole bird like this down in a field or some third world airstrip. Well, I suppose you could... but there would be no getting it back in the air again.


Right now it's being stored in a hanger over in Iran.


As it didn't have the fuel to get there, how?


Mid-air refueling, *duh*

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Okay- where? Remember, you cant just set a big 'ole bird like this down in a field or some third world airstrip. Well, I suppose you could... but there would be no getting it back in the air again.


Right now it's being stored in a hanger over in Iran.


As it didn't have the fuel to get there, how?


Mid-air refueling, *duh*

An airliner is not capable of that. *Duh*

You can list all the civilian in flight refueling activity, right?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Mid-air refueling, *duh*

An airliner is not capable of that. *Duh*

Please, let's not allow facts to get in the way of an elaborate conspiracy theory.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Mid-air refueling, *duh*

An airliner is not capable of that. *Duh*

Please, let's not allow facts to get in the way of an elaborate conspiracy theory.



My bad.

The EU RECREATE project is looking into that: http://www.cruiser-feeder.eu/news--media/air-to-air-refuelling-for-passenger-aircraft.html

But simulators are a far cry from making the above "claim" real.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Mid-air refueling, *duh*

An airliner is not capable of that. *Duh*

Please, let's not allow facts to get in the way of an elaborate conspiracy theory.



Oh. So he originally wrote "an airliner is not capable of that."

... it isn't?? ...

Maybe in Diego Garcia.. the plane..

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Mid-air refueling, *duh*

An airliner is not capable of that. *Duh*

Please, let's not allow facts to get in the way of an elaborate conspiracy theory.



My bad.

I do hope you are saying that *this* plane cannot refuel mid-flight.

In Air Force One, they refuel ed, though.. ? Different plane?

 

[kschachn]

You know enough to know that Air Force One can refuel in flight, yet you say "different plane?" Sheesh.

I second the statement that you shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
I do hope you are saying that *this* plane cannot refuel mid-flight.

In Air Force One, they refuel ed, though.. ? Different plane?

 

[Astro14]

Air Force One is a specially modified 747. In flight refueling is only one of its unique capabilities.

The missing plane is a 777. It is not modified, nor is the crew trained, to refuel.

Refueling in flight requires more than just plumbing. You need a crew that is trained. It's a hand-flown, precision formation, maneuver. You don't just show up and get plugged....

Sorry to rain facts on the conspiracy parade....

As far as the disposition of this plane, I stand by my posts in the previous thread. The facts remain the same, so the analysis remains valid.

There is nothing new or original in this thread, sorry to say, all of the conspiracy theories were explored here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3330256/1

 

[kschachn]

Thank you for answering that in a calm and rational way. I just don't have the patience.

And AFAIK Air Force One has never refueled in flight except for training missions. Even when President Bush made the surprise trip to Baghdad it had enough fuel for that flight and then some.

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Air Force One is a specially modified 747. In flight refueling is only one of its unique capabilities.

The missing plane is a 777. It is not modified, nor is the crew trained, to refuel.

Refueling in flight requires more than just plumbing. You need a crew that is trained. It's a hand-flown, precision formation, maneuver. You don't just show up and get plugged....

Sorry to rain facts on the conspiracy parade....

As far as the disposition of this plane, I stand by my posts in the previous thread. The facts remain the same, so the analysis remains valid.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
You know enough to know that Air Force One can refuel in flight, yet you say "different plane?" Sheesh.

I second the statement that you shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
I do hope you are saying that *this* plane cannot refuel mid-flight.

In Air Force One, they refuel ed, though.. ? Different plane?


Actually, I thought I was gonna get chided for believing a movie?

Conspiracy theories are fun, if improbable.

 

[Astro14]

If you would like to know more about Air Force One, this was a very well done show: http://shop.history.com/secret-access-air-force-one-dvd/detail.php?p=71434

It might be on Netflix or YouTube.

It's a very interesting airplane. Many years ago, I had chance to talk with some of the Air Force One pilots when they came through Denver for training. United had a specially set up simulator that allowed in flight refueling training.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
You know enough to know that Air Force One can refuel in flight, yet you say "different plane?" Sheesh.

I second the statement that you shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
I do hope you are saying that *this* plane cannot refuel mid-flight.

In Air Force One, they refuel ed, though.. ? Different plane?


He doesn't understand that the VC-25 is *not* a civilian aircraft. Or that it is *not* a 777 for that matter.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: kschachn
You know enough to know that Air Force One can refuel in flight, yet you say "different plane?" Sheesh.

I second the statement that you shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
I do hope you are saying that *this* plane cannot refuel mid-flight.

In Air Force One, they refuel ed, though.. ? Different plane?


He doesn't understand that the VC-25 is *not* a civilian aircraft. Or that it is *not* a 777 for that matter.


Is a VC-25 the refueler plane?

And I think Astro14's posts are exceptional. Extremely informative. And I get a lot from them.

And let me just say this... My interest in conspiracy theories stems from my desire to know all about the events and equipment that they contain. In this case: Airplanes, radar, social curiosity. I like that Astro14 is a seasoned military guy, probably also law enforcement/police experience and can call B.S. on things. It keeps us sharp. Conspiracy theories exist for:

- Boston Bombing (some irregularities, but I don't subscribe full-fledged)
- Newtown shooting (something weird about that)
- Flight 370
- 9-11
- Treyvon Martin and George Zimmerman
- Any music star
etc etc.

So, I enjoy this thread, and discussion.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne

Is a VC-25 the refueler plane?