Alignment Tips & Warnings

[SumpChump]

I'm going for am alignment check and possible alignment in my 2013 Camry with 25k miles tomorrow. I got new Pirellis P7 A/S plus and want to make sure they wear well.

Any expectations I should have for time, quality , how close to factory middle preferred specs is tolerable? Tips? I don't want to get scammed with a 'probably good enough' job that gets done too soon so that they can keep up with their overbooked schedule.

Front Alignment:
OE Camber = -0.67 +/-0.75 deg
OE Caster = 3.1 +/-0.8 deg
OE Toe = 0.0 +/-0.2 deg

Rear Alignment:
OE Camber = -1.2 +/-0.8 deg
OE Toe = 0.2 +/-0.2 deg

 

[jacky]

if you want your steering wheel to be perfectly straight you may want to tell them

 

[demarpaint]

I have no clue what your numbers mean for your car. If the car is having issues then by all means align it.

Here's what I learned about alignments over the years. If you don't need one don't get one. I'm sure I'll get flamed but here's my logic. If the front end is tight and no parts were replaced, the car tracks well, meaning it doesn't drift or wander, and the tires are wearing well LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. I've taken in cars for alignments as part of a tire replacement ritual and many times left having the alignment worse than before, and having to go back to have them correct it, only to tell me some B-S story like its a caliper, or some other nonsense.

Trav a good friend of mine and I discussed this recently and he agreed 100% with me. My Buick is due for tires, the wear pattern on them is perfect. I'm going to pass on an alignment. Having an alignment would have been an old habit, I'm happy to report that died. Opinions vary, flame suit on.

A good way to check if a tech even knows what he's doing is to see if he checks the air in the tires before he starts. You'd be amazed how many don't do that most important routine procedure before an alignment. I won't even mention checking the front end. Just watch the Mavis guys in the local shops near me and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Cardenio327]

In my shop we use a tighter tolerance than the car specs require: +/- 0.20 ° on caster and camber, and +/- 0.01 ° on toe.

As manufacturing tolerances constantly improve, modern cars become less adjustable. Many cars can only adjust the front toe unless you want to buy expensive alignment parts that may or may not work well.

I wouldn't bother with an alignment at 25,000 mi. unless it is feather-edging the tires or you know for a fact it has hit a curb or enormous pothole or the like. Often times the factory alignments are dead on precise, and can't be beat.

 

[Mr Nice]

Many so called alignment techs barely know how to use the computer / alignment rack properly.

 

[oilpsi2high]

The best alignments I've gotten have been at specialty race/tire shops where that's all they do. The worst have been performed at dealerships, of all places.

 

[HangFire]

Only one tip, find the best tire shop in town. Ask friends and coworkers where they go and if they're happy.

 

[SumpChump]

Wow guys I'm getting scared of even having an alignment check done. I had some inner wear on the fonts in the factory Turanzas. It was a half inch band of wear exactly in the inner shoulder edges. The tires center tread measure 5-6/32nds and the inner edge measured 3/32nds. And they were loud tires at the end of their pitiful life. Perhaps the loudness being just due to Turanzas being their make?
Also had heel-toe wear (not uncommon) in the inner tread blocks. Note: NOT cupping like from a bad shock but real heel toe wear in which the front of the tread block is higher than the rear as you run your hand across it. The main point being that I had an exact laser specific half inch wear on the in er shoulder edge just before/as the tread curves over to the sidewall.

Should I still bother or could an alignment check mess up the car!?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump


Should I still bother or could an alignment check mess up the car!?


I told you my experiences. Unless you're certain 100% you're dealing with someone who knows what exactly what their doing and their equipment is up to par IMO anything else is the luck of the draw. You could leave the shop in worse condition than when you entered.

 

[SumpChump]

Ok fellas, there is a frame and alignment shop nearby that does this stuff all day long every day of the week for years. Have heard no complaints. I think I'm going to cancel the dealer alignment check and ween myself off the false dealer confidence. I asked the shop manager at this local frame shop about specs and tolerances....for example , the Camry is -.67 camber on the front yet has a tolerance of +\- .75. I thought that kinda odd after a previous bitog post above. He says of those sized tolerances,"Heck, that's HOW dealers get you to pay for their work. Our tolerance is going for dead on."

He said they can do a check and if don't like the numbers I see the. I can move forward with an alignment. Sounds like their alignment check is non destructive.

Here's the web page link below so you can see the inside of the shop.
Frame and Axle Shop

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: SumpChump


Should I still bother or could an alignment check mess up the car!?


I told you my experiences. Unless you're certain 100% you're dealing with someone who knows what exactly what their doing and their equipment is up to par IMO anything else is the luck of the draw. You could leave the shop in worse condition than when you entered.


Agree!

I had something like this with my Triumph, the car is supposed to be weighted ao account for driver and passenger. But they did not do this.
They also followed some erroneous spec in their computer, not what I gave them.

 

[eljefino]

Yeah an alignment check is non-destructive as they have to heat up and break free the jam nuts before really working, and mechanics are lazy like the rest of us. Not your car, because they're new, but most peoples'.

My brief stint in a tire store brought a camry in for alignment (re-do, under warranty, unhappy), with 1.2 degrees of positive camber which we didn't fix, because it was "non adjustable". This just means too lazy to grind strut holes or get crash bolts.

All this to say, camber is tough but not impossible to fix, yet something you want close to spot-on.

 

[SumpChump]

Ok, well I guess I'm in a good place with this issue then. I have a good shop selected with good reviews since 1967 and the alignment check is non destructive ( no torches, hammers, steering pins being pulled).

So I guess it can't hurt to see if she's near spec.

Eljefino,

Would it be a good idea for me to spray the jam nuts with some penetrant a day or so before going in or perhaps remove the plastics small ceter caps off of the hub centric alloy rims so they don't have to take off all four wheels to knock out a plastic push cap?

Or do they not hang a camber guage on the spindles anymore rendering that needless.

 

[eljefino]

I would NOT hit the nuts with lube just because they'd assume someone else touched it, and maybe monkeyed with it.

 

[SumpChump]

Ah ok. Man what a world.

 

[another Todd]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I have no clue what your numbers mean for your car. If the car is having issues then by all means align it.

Here's what I learned about alignments over the years. If you don't need one don't get one. I'm sure I'll get flamed but here's my logic. If the front end is tight and no parts were replaced, the car tracks well, meaning it doesn't drift or wander, and the tires are wearing well LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. I've taken in cars for alignments as part of a tire replacement ritual and many times left having the alignment worse than before, and having to go back to have them correct it, only to tell me some B-S story like its a caliper, or some other nonsense.

Trav a good friend of mine and I discussed this recently and he agreed 100% with me. My Buick is due for tires, the wear pattern on them is perfect. I'm going to pass on an alignment. Having an alignment would have been an old habit, I'm happy to report that died. Opinions vary, flame suit on.

A good way to check if a tech even knows what he's doing is to see if he checks the air in the tires before he starts. You'd be amazed how many don't do that most important routine procedure before an alignment. I won't even mention checking the front end. Just watch the Mavis guys in the local shops near me and you'll see what I mean.



I absolutely agree. If you are not having a problem do not have the alignment checked. There are so few shops that do it right it is to be avoided if at all possible.

I will also add this, the best alignment shop I have ever known did not always go by the factory specs. There are environmental aspects that affect alignment. For example: The crown of the road in some localities has to be taken into account as some are steeper than others. Always a single occupant vs. usually two occupants is a consideration, as well as how the vehicle is normally loaded. An excellent shop will take many variables into consideration and use the factory specs as a guide, but in actuality, they create their own specs based on the information they know, and that that is provided by you.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Ok fellas, there is a frame and alignment shop nearby that does this stuff all day long every day of the week for years. Have heard no complaints. I think I'm going to cancel the dealer alignment check and ween myself off the false dealer confidence. I asked the shop manager at this local frame shop about specs and tolerances....for example , the Camry is -.67 camber on the front yet has a tolerance of +\- .75. I thought that kinda odd after a previous bitog post above. He says of those sized tolerances,"Heck, that's HOW dealers get you to pay for their work. Our tolerance is going for dead on."

He said they can do a check and if don't like the numbers I see the. I can move forward with an alignment. Sounds like their alignment check is non destructive.

Here's the web page link below so you can see the inside of the shop.
Frame and Axle Shop


I agree with the OEM wide specs. It is crazy

If your struts are held in place with two bolts at the bottom of the strut you can get eccentric camber bolts to gain/lose a couple degrees of camber.

 

[The Critic]

On this car, MAKE SURE that a zero point calibration is done after any adjustments are made. This can be done using Hunter codelink or Techstream. Otherwise, you'll risk experiencing unusual behavior from the stability control system.

 

[CapriRacer]

Here's what I have learned over the years:

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
......

Front Alignment:
OE Camber = -0.67 +/-0.75 deg
OE Caster = 3.1 +/-0.8 deg
OE Toe = 0.0 +/-0.2 deg

Rear Alignment:
OE Camber = -1.2 +/-0.8 deg
OE Toe = 0.2 +/-0.2 deg



First, the published alignment tolerances are usually way too wide - by half - and the above are certainly in that category.

#2, you want the alignment to be as close to the target as possible - with the following exception:

If the camber is over a degree, dial out everything you can.

 

[Gokhan]

It all depends on the skill level of the technician. Buy a lifetime alignment and keep it getting realigned if it doesn't work.