2014 Diesel Cruze / Dexos2 5W-30

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I am not sure that the difference between .8 and 1 is that big of a deal. Not when we compare it to previous formulations like CI-4. But there are some who like to quibble over details. It would seem, with roughly 1 million commercial diesels on the road in N. America, running DPF systems, that if CJ-4 couldn't protect those DPF's, then we would be seeing some major problems by now. DPF has been on the heavy truck scene since 2007. 7 years and some of those diesels are nearing the 1 million mile mark. We should have been hearing horror stories about CJ-4 by now. The silence is deafening.
 
Thanks TiredTrucker, you're right, especially if we take into account possibly minor oil consumption.

However, thinking about oils, engines, and manufacturers recommendationa are quibbling over details. That is why we are here.
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Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I am not sure that the difference between .8 and 1 is that big of a deal. Not when we compare it to previous formulations like CI-4. But there are some who like to quibble over details. It would seem, with roughly 1 million commercial diesels on the road in N. America, running DPF systems, that if CJ-4 couldn't protect those DPF's, then we would be seeing some major problems by now. DPF has been on the heavy truck scene since 2007. 7 years and some of those diesels are nearing the 1 million mile mark. We should have been hearing horror stories about CJ-4 by now. The silence is deafening.


First to say I agree with you that 0.8 and 1.0 don't seem like a big difference but manufacturers do not agree. DPFs of big trucks are different to one used in a small passenger cars. SCRs on those eliminate most of the particles. Major Euro truck manufacturer is using 1.9 SAPS oil in his new trucks to extend OCI up to 150k km. It's possible for them to do this because of their SCR system, it's so efficient that eliminates 99% of all particles so DPF never gets clogged. No EGR also. It is also worth mentioning that ACEA A3/B4 full SAPS often have level 1.0-1.2 . So they are quite comparable to Api CJ-4 in terms of SAPS level.
I think OP should stay with factory recommended oil specification for this motor.
 
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Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I am not sure that the difference between .8 and 1 is that big of a deal. Not when we compare it to previous formulations like CI-4. But there are some who like to quibble over details. It would seem, with roughly 1 million commercial diesels on the road in N. America, running DPF systems, that if CJ-4 couldn't protect those DPF's, then we would be seeing some major problems by now. DPF has been on the heavy truck scene since 2007. 7 years and some of those diesels are nearing the 1 million mile mark. We should have been hearing horror stories about CJ-4 by now. The silence is deafening.


First to say I agree with you that 0.8 and 1.0 don't seem like a big difference but manufacturers do not agree. DPFs of big trucks are different to one used in a small passenger cars. SCRs on those eliminate most of the particles. Major Euro truck manufacturer is using 1.9 SAPS oil in his new trucks to extend OCI up to 150k km. It's possible for them to do this because of their SCR system, it's so efficient that eliminates 99% of all particles so DPF never gets clogged. No EGR also. It is also worth mentioning that ACEA A3/B4 full SAPS often have level 1.0-1.2 . So they are quite comparable to Api CJ-4 in terms of SAPS level.
I think OP should stay with factory recommended oil specification for this motor.


I agree. Follow the manufacturers recommendation for at least the warranty period. After that, if you feel CJ-4 is ok, have at it. Any and all repairs are on you anyways for what ever reason.
 
Well, chrisri, they could be different from an EU standpoint, but the U.S. EPA standards are the same for trucks, autos, farm tractors, etc.... across the spectrum. SCR and DPF are on every new diesel engine being dropped into a car, truck, or tractor.... everything with 25 or more hp rating. The NOx and particulate level maximums are the same for all applications. Useful life measurements differ for light, medium, or heavy vehicles is the only difference.
 
Hmm, OP asked about his Cruze diesel, a car speced for Dexos 2 oil. Dexos 2 is low SAPS oil for GM cars. Again, maximum permitted SAPS level is 0.8. What is there to discuss? It doesn't matter if one drives this Cruze in Europe NA or Mars. As long as you use low sulphur fuel things are the same.
 
Well, according to the dexos site itself, there is dexos 2 and there is CJ-4, which is still the standard for the Duramax diesels in the U.S, according to the dexos2 website itself. Now you figure out, given dealerships and how they do things, if that tech in the lube bay is going pick over details as to whether he drops in a dexos2 or just a CJ-4 that he drops in all the pickup diesels that come thru. I would almost be willing to bet, that those Cruze owners that go in and get their "free" oil changes will have a CJ-4 oil put in and they will not even know nor have any real issues related to the oil. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised they get a dexos1 gasoline engine oil put in by mistake. Now that could be an issue.

I still get the distinct impression that folks are just worrying too much. Those of us that have engines that, by themselves, cost more than most folk's automobile don't sit around and put this much energy into what oil goes in. We just drop in a good CJ-4, of the viscosity the engine requires, the brand we have a preference for (and many times it is not of the OEM "approved" oil list), run the samples at oil changes, and live life in peace. We do not sit around worrying about the OEM voiding the warranty on a $35,000 engine all day long over an oil selection. But, some folks have a lot of time on their hands.
 
The Amsoil 3000 is not designed for SCR and DPF systems. It is NOT the best diesel oil one can buy for this application. It doesn't meet the minimum specs a LOT of diesels made since 2007. It doesn't meet CJ-4, Detroit 93K218, Cummins CES 20081, etc. All of these specs were established in or near 2007. Amsoil 3000 is old school oil for older engines.

And what is this fascination with a Euro spec on an engine in an American vehicle? I cannot find that any of the OEM engines listed on the low saps Euro formulas from Amsoil that say GM.
 
I have a Cruze Diesel and so far it has been a good car. Only 12k miles though. Why is there so much stressing about the GM Dexos 2? The oil is free for 2 years and after that you can buy it online of less than $6/qt.

I don't understand what all the brew-ha-ha is about

Q
 
Originally Posted By: q2bruiser
I have a Cruze Diesel and so far it has been a good car. Only 12k miles though. Why is there so much stressing about the GM Dexos 2? The oil is free for 2 years and after that you can buy it online of less than $6/qt.

I don't understand what all the brew-ha-ha is about

Q


Where?
 
Originally Posted By: q2bruiser
I have a Cruze Diesel and so far it has been a good car. Only 12k miles though. Why is there so much stressing about the GM Dexos 2? The oil is free for 2 years and after that you can buy it online of less than $6/qt.

I don't understand what all the brew-ha-ha is about

Q


It's free on CPO gassers too.

I'm going to have to let someone else do my oil changes! Oh the horror!
 
Originally Posted By: NH73
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Not really sure why any CJ-4 rated synthetic would not work just fine in the Cruze diesel. CJ-4 was designed for the soot loading of EGR and the downstream SCR and DPF nonsense. The requirement for CJ-4 is 1% ash or lower. Seems that some folks overthink the issue to extremes. Hundreds of thousands of European designed diesel engines are running around the U.S. using quality CJ-4 rated oils. Volvo, Mercedes, MAN, VM, VW, etc. Many of them with a lot of miles racked up with no oil related problems. They may have issues with other things, but oil is not the cause.


Could you find out the difference between CJ-4, ACEA C3 and dexos 2 and report back?


Basically C3 has 25% lower zinc/phos vs CJ4, then C3 has specs on staying in grade for 5w30. Reality I'm not entirely impressed with C3/229.51 wear results, seeing high wear metals.l, but everyone raves about TBN, hate to break it to the masses ULSD doesn't break down the detergents like 500ppm sulfur diesel did. That's the only purpose of TBN. Rave about having TBN of 4 or 5 but yet have 150ppm iron, where's the problem? Rant off
 
And CJ-4 was developed with the downstream diesel emissions junk in mind. It is a low SAPS oil. Below 1. Even if some other spec like dexos2 calls for something like .8, we are just straining at gnats at that point.

I guess all of this only applies to those that find it rather inconvenient to use the free oil change thing at dealers. I realize 80% of the country lives on either coast of the country and somewhat close to a metro area that has a dealer that has hours that are little more convenient and ever lube express services. What of the other 20%. With my 2013 Chevy and my new 2015 Chevy, neither has or will see the dealer for an oil change. It is just too inconvenient. There are no loaner cars if I needed one, the hours are such that It is when I am running my business. The miles to and from also make all of this a situation where it is actually cheaper to do the oil change myself, and pay for it, than it is to go to the dealer and have it done for "free". And I know it is done right.
 
API CJ-4 is a heavy duty diesel spec - it is not intended for use in passenger cars. Hence why it is "low SAPS" at 1% max (which, in car language, is regular SAPS). All of the engine tests in CJ-4 are truck engines so you can't compare the limits or performance with ACEA C3 or dexos2, which use car engines.

In terms of physical and chemical limits, CJ-4 is 1.0% max ash, 1200 ppm max P, 400 ppm max S, 3.5 HTHS. It also has a severe stay-in-grade shear stability requirements over 90 cycles.

C3 and dexos2 are essentially the same, at 0.8% ash, 700-900 ppm P, 3.5 HTHS, 13% Noack and TBN of 6. C3 has a lower limit on S though (300 ppm vs 350 ppm). C3 requires stay-in-grade shear stability over 30 cycles.

In the engine tests, dexos2 matches C3 for some, has different limits for some and adds extra, GM-specific tests that C3 doesn't use.

dexos2 is more severe on the Seq VG (sludge/varnish) but less severe on the VW TDi (wear/cleanliness). dexos2 also has a higher fuel economy requirement and adds the need for additional GM engine durability tests.
 
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