A Montana man who set trap convicted of homicide.

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Shoota few more burglars and maybe the rest will smarten up.


Shooting them is fine. Baiting and laying in wait is not.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Honestly...I have zero problem with what he did. I'm fine with burglars being shot on sight. Shoot enough and a few others might decide to go someplace else.


I completely and totally agree with you. I have no problem whatsoever with a homeowner baiting their property against scum. I feel every property owner has the right to do whatever necessary to protect their domain. No one should have to live in fear of being victimized and not feel safe and secure in their own home. If scum doesn't want to die,then they should refrain from victimizing home owners. It's very simple logic. But if they choose to victimize a homeowner,they should be willing to accept any consequence of their actions.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Shoota few more burglars and maybe the rest will smarten up.


Shooting them is fine. Baiting and laying in wait is not.


Boy, I guess I'd better get rid of my valuables, lest I'm accused someday of "Baiting" a burglar. If I happen to be home, and catch them in the act, and feel my life is in danger and defend myself with lethal force, this will henceforth be known as "laying in wait".

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Shoota few more burglars and maybe the rest will smarten up.


Shooting them is fine. Baiting and laying in wait is not.


Boy, I guess I'd better get rid of my valuables, lest I'm accused someday of "Baiting" a burglar. If I happen to be home, and catch them in the act, and feel my life is in danger and defend myself with lethal force, this will henceforth be known as "laying in wait".



Do you have a serious reading and comprehension impediment?

 

[jrmason]

In a time not too long ago, thievery was enough to get you hung...if you made it to trial. If the land owner caught you in the act and had his way you did not. The comments defending this scum bag are sickening, I don't care if the homeowner (the only victim here) was defending himself, his Rolls Royce or a bag of dope, the crook was on his property plain and simple with the intent to steal. If you walked by your neighbors house and saw a bag of money laying on his front porch would you take it? If you've got an ounce of morals, you would not. The land owner was on HIS property defending HIS property. Only a [censored] would take the "bait" as it's being referred to and the world is a better place without him. The government has lost its backbone and all too often punish the wrong people, and their weakness is slowly poisoning our culture. Let a pedophile walk the streets with a slap on the wrist, but lock a guy up and throw the key away for ridding our culture of another useless POS who was enjoying a free ride on the taxpayers dime. If he spent as much time searching for a job as he did breaking the law, he'd still be alive.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
In a time not too long ago, thievery was enough to get you hung...if you made it to trial. If the land owner caught you in the act and had his way you did not. The comments defending this scum bag are sickening, I don't care if the homeowner (the only victim here) was defending himself, his Rolls Royce or a bag of dope, the crook was on his property plain and simple with the intent to steal. If you walked by your neighbors house and saw a bag of money laying on his front porch would you take it? If you've got an ounce of morals, you would not. The land owner was on HIS property defending HIS property. Only a [censored] would take the "bait" as it's being referred to and the world is a better place without him. The government has lost its backbone and all too often punish the wrong people, and their weakness is slowly poisoning our culture. Let a pedophile walk the streets with a slap on the wrist, but lock a guy up and throw the key away for ridding our culture of another useless POS who was enjoying a free ride on the taxpayers dime. If he spent as much time searching for a job as he did breaking the law, he'd still be alive.


There is a big difference between defending a intruder and condemning a murderer.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Shoota few more burglars and maybe the rest will smarten up.


Shooting them is fine. Baiting and laying in wait is not.


Boy, I guess I'd better get rid of my valuables, lest I'm accused someday of "Baiting" a burglar. If I happen to be home, and catch them in the act, and feel my life is in danger and defend myself with lethal force, this will henceforth be known as "laying in wait".



Do you have a serious reading and comprehension impediment?


Do you?

You have me convinced. I'm going to get rid of my valuables, and I will not defend myself if some burglar comes into my home with unknown intentions.

 

[jrmason]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: jrmason
In a time not too long ago, thievery was enough to get you hung...if you made it to trial. If the land owner caught you in the act and had his way you did not. The comments defending this scum bag are sickening, I don't care if the homeowner (the only victim here) was defending himself, his Rolls Royce or a bag of dope, the crook was on his property plain and simple with the intent to steal. If you walked by your neighbors house and saw a bag of money laying on his front porch would you take it? If you've got an ounce of morals, you would not. The land owner was on HIS property defending HIS property. Only a [censored] would take the "bait" as it's being referred to and the world is a better place without him. The government has lost its backbone and all too often punish the wrong people, and their weakness is slowly poisoning our culture. Let a pedophile walk the streets with a slap on the wrist, but lock a guy up and throw the key away for ridding our culture of another useless POS who was enjoying a free ride on the taxpayers dime. If he spent as much time searching for a job as he did breaking the law, he'd still be alive.


There is a big difference between defending a intruder and condemning a murderer.


What I cant understand is why anyone would defend an intruders (actions) That folks is why our country has so many fruits and nuts walking the streets. We seem to have the mindset that criminals have rights, and that is a shame.

 

[dave1251]

Citizens of this country have the right to face a jury of their peers if accused and charged of crime in a court of law. To be convicted of a crime it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt.

If someone is threatening your life or if there is an valid fear of your or your family's safety then we all have the right to use deadly force when the target has been identified. To set up a trap to protect illegal narcotics while laying in wait is both cowardly and illegal.

This is not a case of castle doctrine. This is a case of criminal premeditated murder. Using bait and easy access to lure a person into your house, bragging to your hairdresser in the weeks prior that you are going to "get" the perpetrator, entrapping the perpetrator in your house without a means to escape, then blindly fire rounds in the direction of your trapped perp is premeditated murder. A jury of this criminal's peers convicted him of murder.

Lying in wait murder and using bait convictions are not new there are a few murder convictions of various parties in this country on record in the mid 19th century. Even in 1890's Texas this type of criminal act would award you a murder conviction.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Boy, I guess I'd better get rid of my valuables, lest I'm accused someday of "Baiting" a burglar. If I happen to be home, and catch them in the act, and feel my life is in danger and defend myself with lethal force, this will henceforth be known as "laying in wait".

You have me convinced. I'm going to get rid of my valuables, and I will not defend myself if some burglar comes into my home with unknown intentions.


Luring and entrapping a criminal in your house with the intent of killing him or her is not defense. It is murder. If the criminal wanted to protect his house and himself he would have held the suspected dead criminal until law enforcement arrived and if the suspect ran away then the criminal defended his house and he would not be in prison as a convicted murder.

The biggest hurdle to your view is this guy is a convicted murder. There is more than a century of precedent of murder convictions in the United States of and luring and lying in wait.

The justice system that protects its citizens to the nth degree and there has to be beyond a reasonable doubt to convict an criminal has convicted this man of murder in the case.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Shoota few more burglars and maybe the rest will smarten up.


Shooting them is fine. Baiting and laying in wait is not.


Honestly, I don't have the slightest problem with it. I'd rather a thug burglarize a "bait" house than the house next door occupied by a 70-year-old woman and her preteen grandchildren.

 

[dave1251]

Good for you. You are in favor of murder.

The justice system, law enforcement, and the vast majority citizens are not. I do not consider this a bad thing.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
What I cant understand is why anyone would defend an intruders (actions) That folks is why our country has so many fruits and nuts walking the streets. We seem to have the mindset that criminals have rights, and that is a shame.


That's a pretty standard BITOG mindset...

I don't see anyone defending the intruder's actions at all...where do you get the idea that they are ?

Or is it simply that criticising the shooter's actions is automatically defending the criminal ?

Because the latter is not a valid argument.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Good for you. You are in favor of murder.

The justice system, law enforcement, and the vast majority citizens are not. I do not consider this a bad thing.


It isn't a bad thing. Despite what internet warriors/tough talkers think.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: jrmason
What I cant understand is why anyone would defend an intruders (actions) That folks is why our country has so many fruits and nuts walking the streets. We seem to have the mindset that criminals have rights, and that is a shame.


That's a pretty standard BITOG mindset...

I don't see anyone defending the intruder's actions at all...where do you get the idea that they are ?

Or is it simply that criticising the shooter's actions is automatically defending the criminal ?

Because the latter is not a valid argument.


I could not agree nor have said it better.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Good for you. You are in favor of murder.

The justice system, law enforcement, and the vast majority citizens are not. I do not consider this a bad thing.


It isn't a bad thing. Despite what internet warriors/tough talkers think.


It is good to see others support and have faith in our justice system.

 

[jrmason]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: jrmason
What I cant understand is why anyone would defend an intruders (actions) That folks is why our country has so many fruits and nuts walking the streets. We seem to have the mindset that criminals have rights, and that is a shame.


That's a pretty standard BITOG mindset...

I don't see anyone defending the intruder's actions at all...where do you get the idea that they are ?

Or is it simply that criticising the shooter's actions is automatically defending the criminal ?

Because the latter is not a valid argument.



Could you ever see yourself in the position the thief put himself in? I never will, and could care less if the homeowner knee capped him with a bat or emptied the clip in his chest. Why are you concerned and so critical of the homeowners actions? You guys are preaching to the choir on laws and rights. I've been through it all for my CCW and studied deeper into it on my own and I'm not interested in anyone's interpretation of why the homeowners actions were illegal. Bottom line is the thug put himself in a bad situation and he paid the price. No sympathy here. I'm guessing many of you have never been victimized and had your sense of security and basic freedoms violated. Its not a good feeling.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: jrmason
What I cant understand is why anyone would defend an intruders (actions) That folks is why our country has so many fruits and nuts walking the streets. We seem to have the mindset that criminals have rights, and that is a shame.


That's a pretty standard BITOG mindset...

I don't see anyone defending the intruder's actions at all...where do you get the idea that they are ?

Or is it simply that criticising the shooter's actions is automatically defending the criminal ?

Because the latter is not a valid argument.



Could you ever see yourself in the position the thief put himself in? I never will, and could care less if the homeowner knee capped him with a bat or emptied the clip in his chest. Why are you concerned and so critical of the homeowners actions? You guys are preaching to the choir on laws and rights. I've been through it all for my CCW and studied deeper into it on my own and I'm not interested in anyone's interpretation of why the homeowners actions were illegal. Bottom line is the thug put himself in a bad situation and he paid the price. No sympathy here. I'm guessing many of you have never been victimized and had your sense of security and basic freedoms violated. Its not a good feeling.


Having been victimized, I can state that setting up a trap with the intention to shoot to kill, and this is what it was, is premeditated murder.

Clearly, the DA and the jury thought so.

Clearly, this now convicted murderer was not a responsible gun owner. Which just adds ammo to the gun grabbers. Thankfully this idiot will never legally own one again.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: jrmason
What I cant understand is why anyone would defend an intruders (actions) That folks is why our country has so many fruits and nuts walking the streets. We seem to have the mindset that criminals have rights, and that is a shame.


That's a pretty standard BITOG mindset...

I don't see anyone defending the intruder's actions at all...where do you get the idea that they are ?

Or is it simply that criticising the shooter's actions is automatically defending the criminal ?

Because the latter is not a valid argument.



Could you ever see yourself in the position the thief put himself in? I never will, and could care less if the homeowner knee capped him with a bat or emptied the clip in his chest. Why are you concerned and so critical of the homeowners actions? You guys are preaching to the choir on laws and rights. I've been through it all for my CCW and studied deeper into it on my own and I'm not interested in anyone's interpretation of why the homeowners actions were illegal. Bottom line is the thug put himself in a bad situation and he paid the price. No sympathy here. I'm guessing many of you have never been victimized and had your sense of security and basic freedoms violated. Its not a good feeling.


This is a case of premeditated murder and to commit this murder the felon used a plan to bait and trap his victim. What is so hard to understand?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
I'm guessing many of you have never been victimized and had your sense of security and basic freedoms violated. Its not a good feeling.


That's the problem with guessing...you guess wrong.

We've been burgled while the family was asleep inside the house. If I'd have awoken, I certainly would have done something, and been entirely within my rights. Oz law even allows me to use a gun in such circumstances (but then you have to fight about how you got it out of safe storage, whith a burglar in the house)

When I found out who did it, I'm not within my rights to go down to Blacktown and injure him.

I've no problem with a perpetrator being injured or shot in the act.

If the bloke in question had entered his garage, come across an intruder, and killed him...fine.

I've a problem with someone who purposely lays a trap, with the intent of killing another...the issue is the a person who had the intent to kill another, and try to justify it by using a "victim" scenario.