Are computers becoming dangerous?

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Originally Posted By: CT8
One of my friends in the early 1980s worked for a huge corporation as a systems analysis[t] ? and that may have been before the web was a big thing.He said anything on the computer isn't private. It alway stuck in my mind and he was right. So many people are gullible fools.


If its not connected to the internet is safe...If it is, then everything on it is at risk
 
Walmart cashiers don't make enough to risk putting their brain to work. Should they happen to make a mistake, and the register doesn't balance out at the end of their shift, guess who's tiny paycheck the difference will be coming out of.

Quote:
I'm only bringing this up because during the previous summer the computers went down and Walmart closed its doors until the problem could be fixed.

If the scanner doesn't work, then the employees have no easy way to figure out what to charge for each item. Running around the store trying to locate a shelf price for everything would take forever and just frustrate everyone else waiting in line. Besides, if they don't scan it, the stock levels don't get updated and the whole supply chain gets out of whack. Shutting the store down in such situation really does make more sense, IMO.
 
So, the question nobody is asking is how a small country, N. Korea, can successfully penetrate and remove terabytes from a 1st-world entertainment business, the industry of which is paranoid about copyright infringement and intellectual property loss?

Makes me think if they can do it, 99% of the other countries can.
 
When the total comes to $11.42 -- I always hand them $21.42 -- it messes them up bad.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
When the total comes to $11.42 -- I always hand them $21.42 -- it messes them up bad.
grin2.gif



that's a good one. I go the other way. I get an item and then get the difference in the bill for gas. Say a pack of smokes and the rest of the 20 or 50 doller bill. Then I get no change. 99.9 percent of them need a calculator.
 
Originally Posted By: spackard
So, the question nobody is asking is how a small country, N. Korea, can successfully penetrate and remove terabytes from a 1st-world entertainment business, the industry of which is paranoid about copyright infringement and intellectual property loss?

Makes me think if they can do it, 99% of the other countries can.


Maybe in their minds, the only real criminals are file sharing.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
AT a Walmart my purchase rang up to $10.16. I gave the cashier a twenty, a dime, a nickle and a penny. She handed me back the change and said the twenty will cover it. I said I would like to have a ten dollar bill back. She responded that "we" would not know what the change would be until she rung it up. I told her to give it a shot with everything that I gave her and when the change read back $10.00 she was completely surprised. I'm only bringing this up because during the previous summer the computers went down and Walmart closed its doors until the problem could be fixed. The same thing happened that summer at my bank. They were out of business because of what turned out to be a simple problem. Just imagine this on a larger scale with a slightly more difficult problem. The results could be catastrophic because there would be no back up methods in place to keep things moving.

Timely topic....I was at the grocers this evening and added enough change to the tab to get back a nickel instead of even more pennys....she gave back the added change. I said I had enough pennys already and needed more nickels. When I saw TILT appear on her forehead, I dropped it and took the pennys!

Go figure.....literally!
 
Quote:
This is coming from a cynical guy who thinks most people I encounter have poor decision-making skills, too.


I wonder if those decision making skills would be better if they didn't outsource so much of their brain function to technology?

Ed
 
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So as someone who works in IT, I have this to say.

There is something called diligence, and smart practices. Sony was hacked. WHY were they hacked? Because they kept all of their passwords in an unprotected word document labelled as such. If they had done what a smart system does, they would have used some form of password safe, which is encrypted typically with 256bit AES encryption (ie essentially unbreakable through brute force attacks). You are always going to have stupid people who's password is 1234567 or something stupid like that. You can't design around people.

Sony being hacked was largely the fault of insufficient security efforts by their IT department. Obviously it's still entirely possible they would have been hacked anyway. But in a lot of cases, if you have to make the attacker WORK, they lose interest and go elsewhere, where it's easier.


I also think this thread is largely representative of the demographic group of BITOG. I guess it would be better if all computers went away and we had to do everything longhand on paper. Faxes were the easiest and fastest way of sending documents. I worked retail for many years. I know how to count and make change. But when you are working behind the register, you are primarily concerned with speed- getting the customer through, because they don't want to be kept waiting. The computer instantly tells you the amount of change. Why take time figuring it out yourself when it's instant, and the customer can go on their merry way?

Also- in regards to the calling a manager to give the gentleman his quarter. In most cases, once the drawer is closed, (especially in a corporate store like that) the drawer cannot be opened by anyone who is not a manager, without processing a transaction in cash. At the end of the day, the money in the drawer is counted, and compared to what the computer says should be in it.

The manager is likely the only one who can open that drawer.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Walmart cashiers don't make enough to risk putting their brain to work. Should they happen to make a mistake, and the register doesn't balance out at the end of their shift, guess who's tiny paycheck the difference will be coming out of.

Quote:
I'm only bringing this up because during the previous summer the computers went down and Walmart closed its doors until the problem could be fixed.

If the scanner doesn't work, then the employees have no easy way to figure out what to charge for each item. Running around the store trying to locate a shelf price for everything would take forever and just frustrate everyone else waiting in line. Besides, if they don't scan it, the stock levels don't get updated and the whole supply chain gets out of whack. Shutting the store down in such situation really does make more sense, IMO.


This 100%, ties back to what I was saying earlier. If the numbers don't match- guess who is on the hook.



Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
AT a Walmart my purchase rang up to $10.16. I gave the cashier a twenty, a dime, a nickle and a penny. She handed me back the change and said the twenty will cover it. I said I would like to have a ten dollar bill back. She responded that "we" would not know what the change would be until she rung it up. I told her to give it a shot with everything that I gave her and when the change read back $10.00 she was completely surprised. I'm only bringing this up because during the previous summer the computers went down and Walmart closed its doors until the problem could be fixed. The same thing happened that summer at my bank. They were out of business because of what turned out to be a simple problem. Just imagine this on a larger scale with a slightly more difficult problem. The results could be catastrophic because there would be no back up methods in place to keep things moving.


This isn't your dad's little corner shop. this is a massive store that processes tens of thousands of dollars in transactions a day. Sure, let's just do all that longhand on paper.
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

I think we are just trading some skills for others, and it's not a new phenomenon. For example, most of us don't know how to hunt for food or grow crops, like our ancestors did. But does it mean that we're going to die? No, we just go to the store and buy what we need.



It's funny, many here think the set of skills that was relevant when they were an adolescent is the most important thing and seems frustrated anyone has moved on.... blissfully ignorant to the fact that those skills were once considered frivolous and could just as easily be made irrelevant.

I mean.... who cares about counting change in your head or by hand. If you're worried all the computers will die why wouldn't you also be concerned electricity as a whole would become unavailable? Or that our monetary system would fail and we would go back to bartering. Seriously, why even teach kids computers. It's all going to be starting fires by hand and trapping a kill for dinner with a bow and arrow you build yourself.

Seriously, I'd love to see someone on here count my grocery bill in their head and not look at a cash register (with tax no less). I have three kids, trust me the cart is overfloweth every time. Cash registers have been around since before anyone who is alive was born. If a minimum wage person looks at it to give you change give them a break.


Oh yeah, I've made that argument before and usually the response is "that's stupid and asinine, clearly that's irrelevant..." etc. It is 100% fact that computers are the way of life right now. Pretty much EVERY business relies on them to some degree. I work in an IT department and I can tell you that most users are completely computer-stupid. Even resetting passwords is challenging for some people.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
When the total comes to $11.42 -- I always hand them $21.42 -- it messes them up bad.
grin2.gif



I like that.

It would work extra good here in OZ because they have done away with 1 and 2 cent coins as legal tender.
The price is rounded up or down to the nearest 5 cents.
 
In this day and age the technology in itself is the weakness.
That's why Sony was hacked in the first place.
If they were using old school technology it would never have been an issue at all.

Now the young ones are hooked on the technology, they are weakened as far as their resourcefulness is concerned.
They have also lost their ability to adapt quickly to changing situations without reaching for their phones.
In the event the power goes off, or the battery is flat they stand around like stuffed dummies not knowing what to do, or how to move forward.

I fear the pursuit to make absolutely everything idiot proof has just served to create better idiots.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Due to a past wrist injury I much prefer to type out my thoughts, technical documents and other products. My job requires a written log that is maintained, disseminated throughout the company, to other companies we collaborate with, and maintained for nearly forever. So, while I get by just fine writing things down, and even utilize my daily work lists as a note pad (not to mention actual note pads that I keep,) I prefer to keep most of my personal notes on my phone. I prefer electronic logs, and type out attachments every chance I get!

Be it filters, instructions, lists, etc., I prefer to type it down in my phone.

Also, to the gentleman who looks so far down his nose at those who choose to utilize technology, consider that it might have been your superior and condescending attitude that caused an undue amount of anxiety, resulting in the poor results you received. For my generation, and especially for the one behind me, it's much faster and less confusing to simply plug in a destination and go, instead of learning routing in an unfamiliar locale. If the man you're talking about knew the general area and was hired as more than a cheap extra pair of hands, then I can understand your annoyance, but if he's not a professional, then what did you expect?


gathermewool,

Clearly you have a disability.
I can understand your necessity for the increased reliance upon technology to help you to be more productive at work.
I do the exact same thing myself. Only I don't have a disability.
I hope I'm right in believing that you are capable of following instructions given to you by a supervisor.

I also utilize technology, and some of it is the most advanced technology available in the world to date.
I was the leader in my industry with regards to adopting the technology, and it cost me a lot of money but I could see the benefits.
I believe technology has it's place, and is vital especially in this modern world.

However, I firmly believe it's not a viable replacement for the most basic of life skills.

With reference to the offsider I had in my employ.
First of all.
He was on my time as he was being paid by me out of my own pocket.
I didn't necessarily need him for the job, but I made space for him to help out and reorganised the work flow accordingly, with a view to accelerated learning at every opportunity.

He was not familiar with the area because he comes from the other side of town.
After leaving school late last year, he was going to take over the world in Real estate. It didn't work out as well as his family hoped. At all.
He has been in and out of work since and unable to hold down a job in fields where he should have been able to preform reasonably well.
He wasn't necessarily paid(still waiting), or paid as well with other employers.
Actually he was taken advantage of by other employers according to his fathers accounts.

The lad is the eldest son of a very, very old friend.
I was his father's best man at his wedding, and the lad's younger brother is my god son.
I have known him since long before he was born.
His father rang me and asked if I could help the lad branch out into another field, in which I have extensive experience and a well proven track record.

I was the sole person in his fathers life who, when the lad was about 2 years old said there was something not quite right with the boy.
This eventually led to a diagnosis of Asbergers syndrome.
We have moved forward together and faithfully walked the path with him during his development, and is now a young man.

I gave him some work with me as a result of his fathers' request.
Without prejudice, and unbeknown to the lad.
He was under constant evaluation as if he was any other person under employment during a standard probationary period.
Although I did cut him some slack because of his father and his Asbergers.
I wanted to get a feel for his strengths and weaknesses to help build him up.

The example I provided earlier was just the most prominent, out of a number that occurred over a three day period.
3 days was as long as he lasted with me.
The Asbergers wasn't the problem.
Sadly he was not missed too much.
And I was saddened and disappointed by his performance overall, as I had come to realise it reflected badly upon his upbringing in a number of ways.
In this regard, the results have been less than impressive to say the least.

In my younger days I have worked with lads my own age, and over the years employed people who would've bought and sold him while he was looking around and wondering where they went.
At no point did I set him up to fail what so ever, as it was in nobody's best interests.
Nor is it my style, as I am always mindful of giving clear and concise instructions regardless of who they may be, because it's more cost effective than sending an Email to somebody that's working along side of me under constant supervision.
This way nobody can say "you didn't tell me".

With the modern day reliance upon technology, people aren't listening to others when being communicated to effectively.
IMO, in a lot of cases they are distracted by the novelty of the technology.
Worse still, it's even possible their heads are filled with just liking the idea of having the technology available to them and at their disposal.
They should be focusing on where they are and what they are doing. Also have an understanding of what's actually required to be successful.
And not just looking the part whilst being surrounded by their technology.

Given his fathers values(which are very similar to mine), it's a poor result for the lad to say the least.
I only hope he never asks for a critique of his sons performance.

He had an opportunity to ask but never took it up at the time.
I can only assume he knows deep down what I will be saying to him.


I put it to you.
Just because you were traumatised by your earliest experience when starting out.
It doesn't necessarily follow that all employers are monsters. Although I have certainly worked for a few over the years.

If the boy was in the military.
He would've had a very hard time of it before they eventually drummed him out.
 
There is nothing wrong with using technology to augment both business and daily life. However, there is a large segment of the population who have become completely dependent upon technology, and rather than use technology as a tool, they allow technology to use them.

As an example, look at the segment of the population who can't put their cell phone down, fearful they may miss a text or be "out of touch". Using that same example, they often can't get from place to place without their cell phone or other navigation system telling them how to get there, often incorrectly.

Also look at those who are quite literally addicted to social media, but can't carry on a simple face to face conversation, or those who haven't learned reasonable spelling and grammar. Rather than learn a skill and then allow the technology tool to augment that skill, they've bypassed the learning stage and completely rely upon the technology to do it for them.

There is even a new "syndrome" available-the smart phone withdrawal syndrome-for those who find it painful to put down their gadget.
 
Originally Posted By: Ducman
In this day and age the technology in itself is the weakness. That's why Sony was hacked in the first place. If they were using old school technology it would never have been an issue at all.

What might that be and how would it effectively serve a corporation the size of Sony? Certainly, IT, its policies and procedures (or the lack thereof) failed them in a disastrous way, but what old school technology would have prevented this and been effective? <---an honest question (not a sarcastic one).
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Quote:
This is coming from a cynical guy who thinks most people I encounter have poor decision-making skills, too.


I wonder if those decision making skills would be better if they didn't outsource so much of their brain function to technology?

Ed


I wrote a long rebuttal, but then I realized that after everything I typed, the end result is that I agree with you.

Now, I do still believe that technology isn't the cause for poor decision-making skills, but it does possibly make them more dangerous (I'm thinking of people who text and drive as examples.) It's also much easier to get into debt, post incriminating information, etc.

Growing up my dad didn't have a credit card. He bought POS car after POS car for hundreds, not thousands of dollars. We were boaters, but the boat he bought was what he could afford, not what he could pay off in half a decade or more.

In contrast, I pay for almost everything with credit, since the credit card company literally pays me to use it (rewards cash back,) but I admit that I buy more [censored] than I really need. I try to buy refurbished and used when I can, but the fact remains: I own a lot of gadgets and [censored] I don't need, like my oil stash haha. If I lived how my father lived while growing up, I'd probably be able to retire fat dumb and happy at 50, though what fun would that be!

In today's day and age, every one can own fancy things and it only costs your better judgement...
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
There is nothing wrong with using technology to augment both business and daily life. However, there is a large segment of the population who have become completely dependent upon technology, and rather than use technology as a tool, they allow technology to use them.

As an example, look at the segment of the population who can't put their cell phone down, fearful they may miss a text or be "out of touch". Using that same example, they often can't get from place to place without their cell phone or other navigation system telling them how to get there, often incorrectly.

Also look at those who are quite literally addicted to social media, but can't carry on a simple face to face conversation, or those who haven't learned reasonable spelling and grammar. Rather than learn a skill and then allow the technology tool to augment that skill, they've bypassed the learning stage and completely rely upon the technology to do it for them.

There is even a new "syndrome" available-the smart phone withdrawal syndrome-for those who find it painful to put down their gadget.

I refer to this as High-Tech vs. High-Touch or Digital vs. Analog.

To mis-quote a Dan Fogelberg song, tech "glitters and shines. Badgers and binds. And constantly needs updating (& checking)."

I understand the lure, the awe and the hook and it's not just the young who are hooked and they're not all hooked for the same reason either.

When "touch" is missing, some dive into "tech". Especially when there is no "touch". Tech becomes a (constant) distraction...for all age groups. I have an older-woman friend and she IS addicted. She takes calls in the middle of eating out, looking at Christmas lights, happy hours, yak, yank, yak, yak, jak. She's standing in a busy restaurant parking lot, thumbs-a-goin, texting her kid who was already inside. I stood there in amazement looking at her...just clueless and absorbed....and oblivious. Not a very deep pool.

As a E.E., I've been involved in computers and all things electrical & electronic for decades now. But the 'shine' has worn off of computers & phones. To me, they're tools. They're not a destination either.

I'll use another story to illustrate my point: Woodworking with power tools vs. hand tools. I've seen guys buy their way into WW, aquiring equipment and jigs, but not basic skills. Case-in-point: Fancy router jigs that'll do double dovetails, assymetric joints and wash the dog. I know a guy who bought one of these things and rapidly became frustrated when he couldn't make a double dovetail joint like the guy at the show did. He started at chapter 8 instead of at the beginning. He thought that by buying the jig, expertise comes with it. Wrong. He didn't understand wood.

Hand tools are not obsolete in the face of power tools. Fundamental to both is learning how to sharpen. Dull tools, blades, irons, chisels, bits are worthless and dangerous. Not everything that is new is properly sharp either.

Tech has come so fast at the consumer that they're just blind-sided and overwhelmed with both it and the flood of information that comes along with it. The digital domain has arrived and nothing will ever be the same. No doubt. However, with too much tech, one can lose touch...in so many ways. So much of social media is just junk food and a very poor substitute for analog touch.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Quote:
This is coming from a cynical guy who thinks most people I encounter have poor decision-making skills, too.

I wonder if those decision making skills would be better if they didn't outsource so much of their brain function to technology?

Ed

Now, I do still believe that technology isn't the cause for poor decision-making skills, but it does possibly make them more dangerous (I'm thinking of people who text and drive as examples.) It's also much easier to get into debt, post incriminating information, etc.


It can contribute directly to poor decisions and I'll give a personal example a bit later. I was referring to people having the mental tools and practical experience to make good decisions.

I'm not anti technology. I've got a GPS, calculator, smart phone, etc. and make use of them regularly. They are a tool I use, but I don't use them to not have to think. The brain is like any other part of the body; use it or loose it. Figuring change and counting it back to the customer builds neural pathways and exercises the brain. Reading a number off of a cash register and putting a wad of bills in a customer's hand does not. Looking at a physical map or Google Maps and getting an idea of your route before plugging in an address into your GPS is good for the brain. Poking in an address and blindly following "Betty's" directions, not so much. Neural pathways formed by actually doing, thinking, and learning are there for you to draw on in other circumstances, including decision making.

An example of technology leading directly to poor decision making is blindly following a GPS.

There was an example in this area where a lady drove off a dock into Puget sound following her GPS.

I bought one about 5 years ago. I was playing with it on trips from Reno to Seattle and back. I'd been making that trip for 15 years before, taking both major routes. The GPS was aways trying to get me to take the central Oregon route. I knew that it was a few miles shorter, but took longer, so would stick to the I5 route if I was in a hurry. A year or so after I got the GPS there was a local (Reno) news story about a couple that had gotten stranded in the mountains following their GPS from Portland to Reno. I had assumed the GPS would take me to Klamath Falls and then on to Reno on major roads. The route it was trying to take included a dirt Forest Service road though the mountains. They had blindly followed the GPS onto a dirt road in the winter, late in the day, with a storm coming in. Poor decision making at it's worst. They spent the night in the car stuck in the snow. The were rescued the next day, fortunately no worse for the wear. GPS's or smart phones are wonderful for small scale navigation. They suck at giving you the big picture. Sometimes looking at an old school map and getting the big picture might save your life.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Ducman
I had an offsider recently helping me on a job.

I gave him clear instructions on the easiest(quickest) way to get to a local hardware warehouse about 1km away as we needed some supplies for the job.


I had a coworker (actually boss
mad.gif
) whose 98 Sunfire was low on coolant. I didn't want to explain dexcool to him so I said, go to walmart and get their generic, which I knew to be a dexclone. He of course went to Target and got Peak conventional green.

Eventually the long metal pipe running on the top of his 2.2 OHV corroded and I got to fix THAT, and he took forever to pay me. A prince among men. However, I could manipulate him to my needs at work, and use him as a buffer against HIS boss, so, there's that.


crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I then asked her to break a 100 dollar bill. She asked my what bills I would like. I said 10 ten dollar bills, 2 twenties, 2 fives and 10 ones and she gave me exactly that.


That's funny...I'll have to try that.
 
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