ATF partial change through the neck

[MalfunctionProne]

Alright. Topped off the 1999 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer 5.4L Triton with one quart ATF yesterday. I noticed the trans felt unusually hot. Not abnormal, being behind engine and all, but the fluid sure looks dirty. 155,000 miles and likely never been serviced, as I dont remember it being done. Now, usually, I see if I can get the siphon pump hose down the fill neck, hot, and replace equal amount of fluid as removed. This partial mixing ensures that I dont shock a healthy trans to death, old wives tale as that may be, it may not "supposed" to happen but IIRC, it does - sometimes.

Any pros and cons to changing fluid this way.

I selected Supertech HM that replaces Mercon fluids, red quart trans fluid for the top-off. Also asking if I should change that out, one gallon at a time, neck hot method.

 

[Astro14]

I would do a cooler line flush. And don't be surprised if it coes out looking horrible at that mileage....

At 60K, the fluid in my Expedition was black, and I had done some towing. It was a 2000, with the 5.4, tow package and 3.73 gears. It was built to tow, but the fluid looked awful anyway...

 

[Oro_O]

At that mileage, I would pump it out the cooler line as he said. I've done that on three vehicles in the last few years and it's not bad, and instead of ending up with fluid only 1/2 as dirty as before, you get clean fluid. Why drop 1/2 your engine oil and add new to dirty if you don't have to do so? That wives tale has legs...

I have had GREAT results with using both Mag1 synthetic ATF and Valvoline Maxlife synthetic ATF. The latter $17/gallon at Walmart, Mag1 $26 for 6qts delivered via Amazon Prime.

If the fluid is that nasty, I'd also add some Transtune to it prior to the change. But just getting a clean, quality, fresh fluid in there would be a big plus. Also, if you are "topping up" and losing some, I'd use the MaxLife.

 

[SZR48207]

If the trans has been exhibiting any non-normal behavior, I would argue that you not fully exchange all the ATF.

Reason being, contaminated ATF will contain particulates of clutch material that provide the necessary friction for the trans to shift and take off smoothly.

A phased approach would be a better option as to not shock the trans with a complete fluid swap.

 

[gman2304]

I done exactly what you're describing to my 2005 Chevy Avalanche 4l60e with 167,000 mile about 6 months ago. I even used the Supertech HM fluid. Siphoned and measured and refilled about 4 times while driving a week between siphons. I know, I'm supposed to drop the pan , replace the filter, use synthetic fluid, etc. So far it shifts like new and the fluid is nice and red and at a minimal cost with little labor involved. I too have heard that a tranny can be shocked and cause problems when a complete fluid and filter replacement is done after years of being neglected. I think your plan is solid as it has worked well for me so far...at least the majority of fluid is replaced which is better than nothing.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Reddy45
If the trans has been exhibiting any non-normal behavior, I would argue that you not fully exchange all the ATF.

Reason being, contaminated ATF will contain particulates of clutch material that provide the necessary friction for the trans to shift and take off smoothly.

A phased approach would be a better option as to not shock the trans with a complete fluid swap.


*slight* shuddering at speed, most niticeable 30MPH or so. Has improved, since fixing underfull condition. Fluid not black, but looks like Brown Sugar oatmeal color.

Added a bottle of LGR, too. Yup.. hit NAPA before WM.

orks perfect... tryna keep it that way. Low miles truck, clean in body and mechanics. Interior, too, except for front seats...

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Almost home, reading more when I get there.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
I done exactly what you're describing to my 2005 Chevy Avalanche 4l60e with 167,000 mile about 6 months ago. I even used the Supertech HM fluid. Siphoned and measured and refilled about 4 times while driving a week between siphons. I know, I'm supposed to drop the pan , replace the filter, use synthetic fluid, etc. So far it shifts like new and the fluid is nice and red and at a minimal cost with little labor involved. I too have heard that a tranny can be shocked and cause problems when a complete fluid and filter replacement is done after years of being neglected. I think your plan is solid as it has worked well for me so far...at least the majority of fluid is replaced which is better than nothing.


+1000000

4L60E, eh? I'll bet you savex its life, with that.

Wow.. your plan is exactly the same as mine! Reason, too! Yup, I heard: "Don't flush anything unless you have money for a new (that anything) - in this case, trans." Slow and gradual. Yes.. I agree.

 

[HangFire]

I think your plan is good, I use the same cautious reasoning. There's no harm to the slow approach, and it's getting better care than it ever did before. I would wait on the more aggressive drain quantities until later. Step up a little at a time with some drive-time in between.

At some point you will want to drop the pan and clean or replace the magnets and replace the filter. If you have the 4R100 make sure you get the right long or short pickup tube filter.

The only Con is that some hand pumps are very slow. After growing old while using a MityVac (which is great for brake bleeding by the way) I bought an OTC 2357, it is much faster.

 

[JHZR2]

Nothing wrong with doing it this way, and in some ways it will be better because it can be gentler/slower. Id also look at how much you can remove that way, so you can calculate dilution ratios.

Don't make it a habit in lieu of pan drops and all.

 

[camrydriver111]

Does it not have a drain plug? Why not drain and refill?

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Does it not have a drain plug? Why not drain and refill?

I can't speak for the OP, but my reasons are 1.) easier on the back, and 2.) it's easier to measure out a small quantity than trying to put the drain plug back in while fighting the stream.

Once I got the drain-n-fills going, the larger quantities of pulling the drain plug don't bother me, so I do it that way during an oil change.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Does it not have a drain plug? Why not drain and refill?

I can't speak for the OP, but my reasons are 1.) easier on the back, and 2.) it's easier to measure out a small quantity than trying to put the drain plug back in while fighting the stream.

Once I got the drain-n-fills going, the larger quantities of pulling the drain plug don't bother me, so I do it that way during an oil change.


Yeah, crawling up under car is not exactly necessary, and has its benefits!

In sequence:

 

[raytseng]

I change out ATF on my lexus/toyotas using a mityvac which pulls 2.5 quarts in about 2minutes. works fine for me (perhaps the other mityvac is not working right, there have been reports that the QC of these have gone down).
The amount pulled out is equal to the drain/fill amount in the manuals.

The only caveat is to make sure your hose is free of barbs and knicks that may catch on something in the tube, is clean and in good shape. Otherwise snip/get a new hose.

That fluid looks pretty black, probably a good idea to repeat every OCI until it clears up.

Did it change the driving feel?

 

[Lubener]

I have done this with a suction gun halfway between a pan drop/ filter change. Helps keep additive package in check.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
That fluid looks pretty black, probably a good idea to repeat every OCI until it clears up.

Did it change the driving feel?


Yes it did! No more "shudder" when driving around town when fully warmed/hot.

I was tempted to change out 4 more quarts, another $16 of fluid, but decided to let it "mix in." I heard some say it is ok to dk it right away, but. The new fluid, should clean for some time. THEN repeat, as said!

Trans is like butter now. And I think that was first trans "service," ever. Pushing 156k miles. Low, for a 1999...

 

[barkingspider]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Does it not have a drain plug? Why not drain and refill?



I have done both ways, and I prefer the drain plug and refill method. Faster and easier for me. To each his own

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
I change out ATF on my lexus/toyotas using a mityvac which pulls 2.5 quarts in about 2minutes. works fine for me (perhaps the other mityvac is not working right, there have been reports that the QC of these have gone down).


I take it you have a bigger MityVac than I.

I have the little MityVac MV8000, with a 1 pint (aprox) reservoir, so pulling down 2.5 quarts would require many fill/empty cycles. I bought it for brake bleeds and it does fine for that job. QC seems fine.

If I needed to do a vacuum testing or a bunch of high volume fluid draws, I wouldn't hesitate to get a MityVac 7201 or 7800. For now I get by with the MV8000 and an OTC 2357 Fluid Transfer pump. Both store easily in any depth tool chest drawer.

 

[gman2304]

I bought a Liquivac from they're website for 60 bucks shipped. It holds 6 qts and will empty the pan on my 4l60e in just a couple of minutes.

 

[MalfunctionProne]