Does anyone here with a Ram 1500 eco-diesel...

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Originally Posted By: jrmason

That is nothing more than an opinionated statement.VM Motori has been building diesel engines since the 40's. They are a very reliable platform.

My advice to the OP is to decide on a travel trailer (or at least narrow it down to a few) so that you can get a better idea of the max GVW and tongue weight. Some trailers are more tongue weight heavy than others and with a half ton pick up you will likely exceed your payload before you exceed the tow ratings. I have no experience with the new Ram 1500, but I have been following a guys report on his new Ecodiesel and he has very positive things to say about it. He hauls his race car in an enclosed car hauler several hundred miles each way. His previous truck was an F250 power stroke and the new Ram gets similar fuel mileage pulling the exact same trailer and obviously much better when empty.
I'm usually the guy that recommends erring on the side of caution and stepping up to a larger tow vehicle if there are any doubt's,and this is no different. All I'm saying is, figure out what exactly your needs will be, and go from there.

If your interested, here is a link to the thread I mentioned.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/threa...wer-and-cooling


Originally Posted By: jrmason
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/conte...L-RIGHT-FOR-YOU

Sorry, wrong link. This is the one I meant to post.

Those links are mine. Here's some more.

http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1...er-7600lbs.html

http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1500-diesel-towing-hauling/1336-2nd-roadtrip-starts-tomorrow-~800mi-24-7500lb-trailer-3.html

It's really a terrific truck. Sure, the cargo/towing capacity is kinda limited, but I wouldn't get over-wrought about it. The same truck with the Hemi has a >2000lbs more towing capacity because it did better drag racing up the side of a mountain. If you routinely drag race your trailer up the side of a mountain then the J2807 criteria is a good fit for you and maybe the Ecodiesel isn't.

My point is that it's a mistake to look at the low towing capacity of the Ecodiesel and imagine that there are brake, suspension, or frame strength issues involved. Go look at the Hemi #'s and think warm thoughts.

That said, the rear springs are pretty darn soft. As you'll note in the above threads, you'll want to spend an hour installing a $100 pair of airbags or the rear will droop embarrasingly.

The ED gets incredible mpg in DD mode and is like driving a big sedan. The roadtrips in my old F-250 diesel were pretty unpleasent. The noise level from the engine, road, and windstream left me half deafened upon arrival at a distant event. The stiff suspension made very freeway expansion crack pound my spine. Very unpleasent. And as I said the Ram ED is like driving a big sedan....a big really nice comfortable sedan.
 
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Originally Posted By: RangerGress

My point is that it's a mistake to look at the low towing capacity of the Ecodiesel and imagine that there are brake, suspension, or frame strength issues involved. Go look at the Hemi #'s and think warm thoughts.


That's a good way to get someone mamed or killed. There are issues and that's why Chrysler rated the Ecodiesel what they did. I don't know what they are and neither do you unless you designed the vehicle.

If they could tow better #s than Ford and GM they would. And they would shout it from the hilltops. Chrysler says they can't and no amount of rationalizing will change that FACT.

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The ED gets incredible mpg in DD mode and is like driving a big sedan.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/1500?engineconfig_id=8453&bodystyleconfig_id=&submodel_id=

22.1/23.1 MPG

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-150?engineconfig_id=2815&bodystyleconfig_id=&submodel_id=
15.3/15.4 MPG

I'd take the lower TCO of the gas (any gas engine) over that of a Diesel in this situation. $80+ oil changes get old real quick. As do expensive filters and DEF and fuel costs higher than Premium Unleaded.

The OP needs to figure what he intends to tow and go from there. If it's a utility trailer or a small boat, the EcoDiesel may be OK. If not, he needs to look elsewhere. The MPG numbers may be high but it's more than offset by the high cost of fuel and maintenance.
 
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I think the issue is that all the half tons ride on roughly the same springs and axles, and the diesel engine itself just weighs more. You can only get so much out of a half ton truck.
 
My wife has a 2002 Superduty with the diesel engine, pricy and higher oil change prices. But she likes the diesel engine. Sometimes the $$$$ factor doesn't matter, if it did people wouldn't buy high performance vehicles. I would consider the diesel engine. Test drive a diesel and gas truck and see how they run.
 
I am fairly sure I will get a diesel, I just love the low RPM torque they produce, and the better mileage may make the higher cost of diesel fuel a non issue. Maintenance costs are not much of an issue as I do almost all maintenance and repairs myself. I have not really started my serious physical search yet, but will be considering an 05- early 07 Dodge with the 5.9 and minimal smog, as well as new truck offerings. With all the discussion and excellent points brought up here, I am strongly leaning towards a 2500. I have a 1/2 ton Chevy now and would not even consider doing the kind of towing I want to do with that truck, it is very weak with even a 4000 lb. trailer.
 
Here is my post from the Chevy Colorado post. I think a lot applies here...

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How so? We'll use the Ram Ecodiesel as it's a close competitor to the F150 that has a Diesel engine.

The 2.7 is getting in the low to mid 20's for MPG #'s from the mags. According to Fuelly, the Ram Ecodiesel is averaging 23.1 ( http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/1500?engineconfig_id=8453&bodystyleconfig_id=&submodel_id= )

Just today around here:
Regular: $2.73
Diesel: $3.34

Add in the $4k upcharge for a Diesel and then the $80-100+ oil changes... ( http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1500-diesel-maintenance/3289-%24%7E80-00-diy-oil-change.html )

I just fail to see a reasonable payback for the Diesel when the cost to acquire, cost to run, and cost to maintain is so much higher. Perhaps if Diesel were at least close to gas it would be a good choice but it seems about on par or more expensive.


$80 DIY oil changes every 10k add up quickly.

I get if you want a Diesel for whatever reasons. That's fine but I still don't think it's any cheaper to run. Run the #'s and see the total cost over 10k, 50k, 100k.

If you love the low RPM power, etc, take an Ecoboost out for a spin. Same low RPM power with maintenance costs of a gas engine. My last oil change with Pennzoil Platinum and a Fram Ultra was under $40.

The older Diesels are probably the best bet since they don't have the new emissions stuff, which can get pricey to fix and rob MPG's.
 
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Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: supton
Yep, that's why when I was shopping, I figured whenever I was towing I'd still have family in the truck. Ergo, 10k towing? Not a chance. Not in a half ton anyhow. Seemed like 5k was about all I could hit, reasonably, given people and cargo load, across the line for half-tons.


They have to be equipped properly. The F150 in my sig has the Max Tow pacakge. Payload from the yellow sticker is about 1860lbs. 4x200 = 800, leaves 1060 for tongue weight. At 10% = 10,060 lbs trailer weight.

Now the "properly equipped" trucks are rare birds on the lots, both new and used. When they appear they tend to go QUICK.


Im not about to start another ford vs whatever war, but its pretty hard to dispute real world driving and experiences like Ranger Gress has provided. I've not come across one negative report on the ecodiesel and towing. I've been in a truck identical to yours, and all I can say is Fords numbers don't add up, and that can be confirmed by driving one with a load behind it. I've recently posted links proving how Ford and GM determine their payloads, I can post it again if you like. I can also post the most recent tow comparisons between the big 3 half tons if you haven't seen it or care to read it again. I rode across PA with a close friend in his 12 ecoboost towing a large 6k+ lb boat and it was an uncomfortable ride as a passenger to say the least. Coming from someone who has two F*words in my driveway. They'll be the last.
 
I've read your posts and they are your experiences. Can't argue that. But your assertations of the #'s are wrong and I think it was pointed out in those threads too.

I'm not going to start an argument but I'll take your experience and point you to the pages of RV guys and others that tow right up to 11.5k with a properly equipped F150 and say great things about it. I'll let you know as we're planning for a 9-10k RV behind ours this year.

I'm sure there are plenty of Chevy guys doing the same. And Ram folks towing up to what they say it can tow.

What you'd be a moron to do is exceed what the manufacturer says as far as payload and GVWR/GAWR. No matter what the brand. The Ecodiesel is a poor tow rig at Chrysler's published #'s. That's the facts and until they change them you'd be a moron to go over them. You'd open yourself to some large liabilities if things go sideways. That goes for any manufacturer's equipment.

Can it be done? Sure thing. I've had a cu yard of topsil in the bed of my F150 - estimated over a ton. Handled it fine. But I was going less than 5 miles and took that risk myself. Would I reccomend it to someone else? Nope.

Chrysler did the engineering on the truck, they did the testing, and the #'s are what they certify it to be safe as. What would their reasoning be to "sandbag" the #'s?

It has nothing to do with Ford Vs Chevy Vs Ram but staying within the capabilities of your tool. If the OP is set on a Ram then he wold be best served to search for one with enough capacity. If it's a 2500 that's fine. If it's a properly set up 1500 that's fine too. But if he wants to be open to other brands he can get the feature he likes about the Diesel (low RPM torque) in a unit that may fit the bill with lower TCO.
 
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Interesting thread; Just went through all this a few weeks ago...

Set out for a Ram 1500 Diesel; didn't like the idea of towing so close to its limit. Ended up with a 2500 w/ Cummins. $5k spread between the two. Usually tow 7k lbs. over the Sierras. I rather have more torque, stability, and braking power (including engine brake)... than not enough.
As for mpg; I can get 23-24mpg keeping it under 70 mph. Not bad for a truck that is close to 7,000lbs unloaded.

You can debate this to death, but for towing, no question it is the right tool for the job. I'm fine with the extra diesel expenses.

There was a great thread over at TDR about the gas vs. diesel debate; it considered the (poor) resale value of gas 2500 trucks.
I didn't even consider that, but apparently it is true.
 
Originally Posted By: RangerGress
The ED gets incredible mpg in DD mode and is like driving a big sedan. The roadtrips in my old F-250 diesel were pretty unpleasent. The noise level from the engine, road, and windstream left me half deafened upon arrival at a distant event. The stiff suspension made very freeway expansion crack pound my spine. Very unpleasent. And as I said the Ram ED is like driving a big sedan....a big really nice comfortable sedan.


And this is precisely why we have our RAM in the driveway! The ride quality is leagues above Ford and Chevy, very much like a fine sedan. It even handles well!

Since few folks ever tow or haul much it is a CHOICE, and it is governed by FEELINGS, not just cold hard facts gleaned from magazines and statistics. The RAM is a beautifully functional truck and if properly equipped can tow well.

Mine has been to the junkyard, where we used the fabulously functional cargo locking device to pin a rear van door in place so well it couldn't even rattle, then to the dump with a cut up shed of aluminum for scrap, to the store where Ramboxes absorbed all our purchases, then to my Son's house to pick up 3 folks to take them to dinner in excellent comfort.

Very functional...
 
We, the naysaysers and I, may have to just agree to disagree.

The ED truck weighs ~4% more than the Hemi truck. No way that weight is the cause of 25% reduction in towing capacity. Once you go read up on the J2807 standard, you'll see what I'm saying re. it being oriented mostly on WOT up steep mountains. There's 2 engine tests, a handling test, braking test, and hitch structural test. Are you going to argue that the ED, relative to the Hemi, doesn't handle or brake as well, or it comes with a weaker hitch?

The whole "maimed or killed" makes good copy, but it's alarmist foolishness. In fact, the handling and braking of modern trucks is an order of magnititude superior to the trucks of the 80's and 90's. Certainly the 1/2 ton ED handles with vastly more "certainty" then my old (2000) F-250 did.

I used to think like you. I was sure that it was patently unsafe to tow a large fraction of the rated weight. I'm not longer so exciteable. All a person needs to do to safely tow their rated weight is to make sure their trailer brakes are in good order, and distribute the weight in the trailer such that the tongue weight is right. Then just drive like a responsible adult and it will be fine.

Cost of diesel. As you'll see discused in my links above, diesel isn't that expensive if you shop around a bit. I ran 89 octane, mid grade in GA, in my '06 F-150. Altho rated for 87, I figured it would be better to up a grade for towing. The price delta for diesel is much larger than what you normally see for gas. Within a mile of my house gas prices vary by ~10cents, but diesel by 50cents. What that means is that you have to shop a little harder for diesel. I can always find diesel for ~10% more than 89 octane. The Ram gets 1/3rd better mpg as a DD than the F-150 did, and almost double the mpg when towing.

Re. "Chrysler did the engineering on the truck, they did the testing, and the #'s are what they certify it to be safe as." That's not accurate. It would be more accurate to state that "Ram's marketing department asserts the performance is up to those #'s."
 
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I just looked up the towing specs of my old '99 Dodge Ram 1500. That truck was a complete POS. Everything about that truck was awful. The weak engine sucked gas like there was no tomorrow. When towing the tranny was hopeless at being in the right gear. The handling was scary bad and the brakes were mushy and vague. In 2008 I swore I'd never own a Ram again.

Yet the tow capacity of the '99 Ram was only slightly less then my 2014 ED. So when one says the towing with the ED at it's capacity is unsafe, what is the measuring stick for that statement? Certainly it's not historic norms.
 
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I look at it this way. The truck was given the tow rating by the manufacturer for a reason. I don't know what the reason is, but I can figure out that if the truck actually could tow at the higher payloads and tow ratings, you know that Ram would be beating that drum and advertising it to high heaven. They aren't.

ow price gasoline here is just under 2.20 a gallon. Low priced Diesel is 3.30 a gallon. Diesel has generally been over a $1 more a gallon for a few months now. Nationally, the Energy Information Administration notes that gas averages 2.55 a gallon and diesel is 3.41 a gallon.
 
Originally Posted By: RangerGress
We, the naysaysers and I, may have to just agree to disagree.

The ED truck weighs ~4% more than the Hemi truck. No way that weight is the cause of 25% reduction in towing capacity. Once you go read up on the J2807 standard, you'll see what I'm saying re. it being oriented mostly on WOT up steep mountains. There's 2 engine tests, a handling test, braking test, and hitch structural test. Are you going to argue that the ED, relative to the Hemi, doesn't handle or brake as well, or it comes with a weaker hitch?


Here's a good discussion of J2807:
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0912_sae_tow_ratings_finally_pass_sniff_test/

Sounds pretty good to me. And seems to be more than WOT up mountains. It's maintaining speed, braking, handling, etc. IOW the whole package. It's also not mandatory.

I don't know what the difference is between the 2 and I'll never find out as I'll never, ever own a Chrysler vehicle (I think we all know that). But there is a tangible difference!

But what possible reason would they have to not say it will tow as much as the Hemi. There has to be a reason. There has to be a reason the Ecodiesel's payload is way lower than the other Ram's (which are lower than the competition). By your own admission the 4% increase in weight is offset by a huge amount of payload decrease. Something has to be giving there and only Chrysler knows the answer.

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The whole "maimed or killed" makes good copy, but it's alarmist foolishness.


Really? Exceeding the capability of any piece of equipment is not a good practice. At some point it will bite you where the sun doesn't shine. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but someday.

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In fact, the handling and braking of modern trucks is an order of magnititude superior to the trucks of the 80's and 90's. Certainly the 1/2 ton ED handles with vastly more "certainty" then my old (2000) F-250 did.


It's also 15 years newer with newer suspension components. I'd hope a new vehicle would handle better than a 15 year old unit.

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I used to think like you. I was sure that it was patently unsafe to tow a large fraction of the rated weight. I'm not longer so exciteable. All a person needs to do to safely tow their rated weight is to make sure their trailer brakes are in good order, and distribute the weight in the trailer such that the tongue weight is right. Then just drive like a responsible adult and it will be fine.


And again, with a payload less than 900 lbs what are you going to tow with an Ecodiesel and not be overweight? A family of 4 and stuff (4x200=800lbs) and you're done before you put a trailer on!

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Cost of diesel. As you'll see discused in my links above, diesel isn't that expensive if you shop around a bit. I ran 89 octane, mid grade in GA, in my '06 F-150. Altho rated for 87, I figured it would be better to up a grade for towing. The price delta for diesel is much larger than what you normally see for gas. Within a mile of my house gas prices vary by ~10cents, but diesel by 50cents. What that means is that you have to shop a little harder for diesel. I can always find diesel for ~10% more than 89 octane. The Ram gets 1/3rd better mpg as a DD than the F-150 did, and almost double the mpg when towing.


I'll let everyone use Gasbuddy. Here's a sampling:
Sheetz, a large convenience store chain today:
87 Gasoline: $2.55
Diesel: $3.29
Flying J:
87 Gasoline: $2.57
Diesel: $3.29

Not sure if these are state differences but this is in PA, in a trucking heavy area too.

Again, I can do an oil change with a top synthetic and a top filter for ~$40. According to the link I provided, the Ram guys are excited for "only" $80 DIY oil changes in their units. They are both 10k OCI's so I can do mine twice to your once.

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Re. "Chrysler did the engineering on the truck, they did the testing, and the #'s are what they certify it to be safe as." That's not accurate. It would be more accurate to state that "Ram's marketing department asserts the performance is up to those #'s."


And if the marketing department thought they could get away with higher numbers they would!!! Something is holding them back and I don't buy it's just J2807. If it is then Chrysler is a much worse engineering company than I thought. My guess is it all ties back to the low payload of the Diesel truck. But what is anyone's guess.
 
I'd assume the low tow rating is due to the low payload. The real question is, why's the payload so low? An ecoboost F-150 beats that payload rating by 1000+ lbs if it's optioned right (mind you, with a solid rear axle and leaf springs compromising the ride a bit).
 
I'll add this:
Let's use the Ecodiesel's competition - the 2.7L F150.

The 2.7 is getting in the low to mid 20's for MPG #'s from the mags.
According to Fuelly, the Ram Ecodiesel is averaging 23.1

We'll use 20MPG for the 2.7 and 23.1 for the Ecodiesel. Assume 50 miles per day.
50*365= 18,250 miles per year.
Ford 2.7 will require 912.5 (18250/20) gallons of 87 Octane for a cost of $2,326.88
EcoDiesel will require 790.04 (18250/23.1) gallons of Diesel for a cost of $2,599.24

So where's the savings again?

I'll even play with my #'s in an Ecoboost 3.5: 1086.31 gallons (18250/16.8) of 87 Octane for a cost of: $2770.09. Or for $171 per year I can have a vehicle that will out-everything that Ram Ecodiesel.
 
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Originally Posted By: 390pi
Interesting thread; Just went through all this a few weeks ago...

Set out for a Ram 1500 Diesel; didn't like the idea of towing so close to its limit. Ended up with a 2500 w/ Cummins. $5k spread between the two. Usually tow 7k lbs. over the Sierras. I rather have more torque, stability, and braking power (including engine brake)... than not enough.
As for mpg; I can get 23-24mpg keeping it under 70 mph. Not bad for a truck that is close to 7,000lbs unloaded.


You can debate this to death, but for towing, no question it is the right tool for the job. I'm fine with the extra diesel expenses.



There was a great thread over at TDR about the gas vs. diesel debate; it considered the (poor) resale value of gas 2500 trucks.
I didn't even consider that, but apparently it is true.


This is hard to argue with. I've had an HD diesel pickup for many years and for my needs I will never own anything else. I can just about guarantee anybody who says their comfortable towing 10k+ with a half ton has likely never towed similar weights with an HD pick up. Which is why initially I recommended the OP narrow his camper choices down to get a better idea of his needs, hard to justify owning an HD diesel pickup if a half ton is all that's needed. If an HD can't be justified and doesnt make sense EXCEPT the few times a year you need to tow your camper,it may be wiser to compromise with a smaller camper.
 
Another data point is that a 4x4 crew cab longbox ecodiesel in the midrange packages has a cargo capacity of 1190lbs.
I think the super low cargo numbers come from adding heavy options like a fold box cover to a fully loaded truck.
I won't argue that Ram dropped the ball on cargo ratings, but I suspect its from the coil spring rear allowing too much sag.
I assume the torture testing the suspension goes through, can't allow too much bottoming out as that puts many times the load through the axle and into the frame that a normal load would. With RangerGress adding air bags, he's avoided frequent bottoming out and probably is operating in the safe window for the whole truck even though he's technically "overloaded".
 
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