Alternative to Motul 300V 10-40 in road race bike?
- Thread starter Eskimo
- Start date
- Status
KernelK - I didn't build the engine, KWS Motorsports did, so I don't know what their exact numbers are, and they're pretty tight-lipped about much of what they do.
From what I gather, their tolerances are typical of what any high-end engine builder would do. This isn't a specific example, but if the allowed tolerances are +/- .010 on a part from the factory, they shoot for +/- .005, that kind of stuff.
From what I gather, their tolerances are typical of what any high-end engine builder would do. This isn't a specific example, but if the allowed tolerances are +/- .010 on a part from the factory, they shoot for +/- .005, that kind of stuff.
Originally Posted By: KernelK
I hope they aren't giving you +/- .005 on your rod bearings.
I said it wasn't a specific example..
I hope they aren't giving you +/- .005 on your rod bearings.
I said it wasn't a specific example..
Originally Posted By: sunruh
O2SE,
i think rraiderr has proven that in a weekend of being at the track his gixxer can whip the oil pretty dang good.
now how much the r6 diffs from the gixxer is certainly a factor (or not) in how they kill it.
Well, I don't know what rraiderr has proven or not. A GSX-R 600 is comparable to an R6 as far as being hard on oil, or not.
My streetbike that I mentioned, has higher piston speeds than an R6, when both are at their respective Redline. I've done numerous UOA's and just physically inspecting the actual parts, to determine my OCI.
Now granted, I can't spend all my time at Redline, unless I want to go to jail.
But even with some hard usage the oil is still fine, and the shifting is smooth, even if I do 3k oil and filter changes.
Anyway, I'd let the UOA's and inspection of parts be your guide to an appropriate OCI.
O2SE,
i think rraiderr has proven that in a weekend of being at the track his gixxer can whip the oil pretty dang good.
now how much the r6 diffs from the gixxer is certainly a factor (or not) in how they kill it.
Well, I don't know what rraiderr has proven or not. A GSX-R 600 is comparable to an R6 as far as being hard on oil, or not.
My streetbike that I mentioned, has higher piston speeds than an R6, when both are at their respective Redline. I've done numerous UOA's and just physically inspecting the actual parts, to determine my OCI.
Now granted, I can't spend all my time at Redline, unless I want to go to jail.
But even with some hard usage the oil is still fine, and the shifting is smooth, even if I do 3k oil and filter changes.
Anyway, I'd let the UOA's and inspection of parts be your guide to an appropriate OCI.
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Originally Posted By: Eskimo
Anyway.. Larry, I am following your logic on viscosity. I'm not baiting when I ask this, but why not a 0w-20 then? (my guess is the additives packages and base stocks used for them are not desirable for this application, not because of anything inherent with the viscosity?)
No problem Eskimo...
It has noting to do with additives and base stocks and everything to do with viscosity
for it is written in the owners manual by Honda's engineers that I may run either a 30 40
or 50 for 8,000 intervals and still meet and exceed my mileage expectations...
I choose 0W30 because it gives the right flow at the normal operating temperature of
212ºF of the engine and that would be the viscosity of 10 at operating temps... so that
means for every 1000 rpms increase Mr.RC45's oil pressure increases another 10 psi... a
30w flows more oil at higher rpms which flows more oil between the critical bearings
which carries away more heat and I'm not wasting HP just pumping oil through the blow off valve...
0w30 psi
1000 10
2000 20
3000 30
4000 40
5000 50
6000 60
7000 70
8000 80
9000 90
10000 99
11000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
0w40
1000 12
2000 24
3000 36
4000 48
5000 72
6000 84
7000 96
8000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
9000 99
10000 99
11000 99
15W50 psi
1000 15
2000 30
3000 45
4000 60
5000 75
6000 90
7000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
8000 99
9000 99
10000 99
11000 99
Quote Mobil 1 on the viscosity of their synthetic 0 30 weight oil:
Temperature ( F )....Viscosity Flow
212ºF..........................10 (operating)
104ºF..........................56 (start up)
32ºF..........................100 (estimate)
Mr.RC45 Oil Press Gauge shows the problem with oil... it doesn't want to flow when its cold this is 0w30 at 112º resisting at 18 psi
The same 0w30 at 203F Oil flowing 10 psi perfect
You see I just don't talk... I went to trouble to installed a digital oil pressure gauge
on MrRC45 to know... 0w30 at 8000 rpms 82 Psi close enough to perfect...
Anyway.. Larry, I am following your logic on viscosity. I'm not baiting when I ask this, but why not a 0w-20 then? (my guess is the additives packages and base stocks used for them are not desirable for this application, not because of anything inherent with the viscosity?)
No problem Eskimo...
It has noting to do with additives and base stocks and everything to do with viscosity
for it is written in the owners manual by Honda's engineers that I may run either a 30 40
or 50 for 8,000 intervals and still meet and exceed my mileage expectations...
I choose 0W30 because it gives the right flow at the normal operating temperature of
212ºF of the engine and that would be the viscosity of 10 at operating temps... so that
means for every 1000 rpms increase Mr.RC45's oil pressure increases another 10 psi... a
30w flows more oil at higher rpms which flows more oil between the critical bearings
which carries away more heat and I'm not wasting HP just pumping oil through the blow off valve...
0w30 psi
1000 10
2000 20
3000 30
4000 40
5000 50
6000 60
7000 70
8000 80
9000 90
10000 99
11000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
0w40
1000 12
2000 24
3000 36
4000 48
5000 72
6000 84
7000 96
8000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
9000 99
10000 99
11000 99
15W50 psi
1000 15
2000 30
3000 45
4000 60
5000 75
6000 90
7000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve
8000 99
9000 99
10000 99
11000 99
Quote Mobil 1 on the viscosity of their synthetic 0 30 weight oil:
Temperature ( F )....Viscosity Flow
212ºF..........................10 (operating)
104ºF..........................56 (start up)
32ºF..........................100 (estimate)
Mr.RC45 Oil Press Gauge shows the problem with oil... it doesn't want to flow when its cold this is 0w30 at 112º resisting at 18 psi
The same 0w30 at 203F Oil flowing 10 psi perfect
You see I just don't talk... I went to trouble to installed a digital oil pressure gauge
on MrRC45 to know... 0w30 at 8000 rpms 82 Psi close enough to perfect...
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Eskimo, first off, congrats on acquiring your R6! As far as comparable oil goes, Motul 300V is widely recommended from a variety of engine builders and tuners and would be absolutely fine in your application. If you desire to use a similar oil without it being as pricey as other members have mentioned Redline would be your next closest comparison. They are both Ester based full synthetics, followed by Redline's Viscosity index rating at 163 vs 160, along with similar flashpoints in excess of 450 degrees, and then their additive formulations begin to differ. Redline utilizes 2500 PPM of Zinc followed by 2100 PPM of Phosphorus, while Motul is down at 915 PPM of Zinc and 833 PPM of Phosphorus. Redline then also adds a heavy dose of Moly at 500 PPM compared to Motul's 146. UOA's would be necessary to determine mileage/hour OCI's, but if you wanted to employ an inexpensive oil and change more frequently, Rotella's 15W40 would also be a fine alternative.
REDLINE MOTORCYCLE OIL STATS
BITOG MOTUL 300V VOA
MOTUL 300V TECHNICAL DATA SHEET
As far as utilizing a lower viscosity oil during race conditions, I would lean toward your engine builders recommendation of using a 40 grade oil and not a 30 grade. While thinner viscosity oils are being used in the car industry to keep up with CAFE requirements on fuel economy, the motorcycle industry has not followed suit for a variety of reasons. The JASO standard was formed by the Society of Automotive Engineers of Japan to better formulate motorcycle specific oils due to the automotive industry leaning towards thinner viscosity oil with lower coefficients of friction (friction modifiers) and go on to state and I quote, "Therefore it is a concern that 4-cycle engine oils for automobiles may cause clutch and transmission problems in motorcycle four cycle engines because the construction of the motorcycle engine is an “all in one” design." They then continue to list ongoing problems associated with the thinner viscosity oils that, "cause clutch slippage and gear pitting wear in motorcycle transmissions...leading to poor gear durability" with these problems tested and observed in the field.
JASO T 903 IMPLEMENTATION MANUAL
Furthermore from Chemistry and Technology of Lubricants they also state, ""As the integral motorcycle gearbox design can often give rise to higher shear loss in multi-grade lubricants than when used in passenger car application, after shear targets are set which reflect this while retaining sufficient base viscosity to afford an acceptable degree of gearbox wear protection from pitting or scuffing."
Chemistry and Technology of Lubricants by Roy M. Mortier, Malcolm F. Fox and Stefan T. Orszulik (December 1,2009)
Due to the fact that you will be in race conditions and displacing tremendous heat and stress to not only the motor, but also the clutch and the gearbox; I believe using the 40 grade oil would offer greater oil film strength and protection to the above stated parts. Furthermore, since the R6 uses wet clutch lubrication along with the extremely high percentage of shear that the oil will encounter that we've all seen through various UOA's (in and outside of race conditions) not just from the clutch/gearbox, but also from fuel dilution, I would rather have the oil shear (either from permanent or temporary shear) from a 40 down to a 30 grade, rather than from a 30 down to a possible 20 grade. While it is possible to attain a 1-2 hp increase from using a 30 grade due to having less viscous drag, I wouldn't be willing to take the risk of increased engine/gearbox wear that highly funded racers or racing teams can afford to take in order to achieve even the slightest increase in horsepower via more frequent rebuilds.
REDLINE MOTORCYCLE OIL STATS
BITOG MOTUL 300V VOA
MOTUL 300V TECHNICAL DATA SHEET
As far as utilizing a lower viscosity oil during race conditions, I would lean toward your engine builders recommendation of using a 40 grade oil and not a 30 grade. While thinner viscosity oils are being used in the car industry to keep up with CAFE requirements on fuel economy, the motorcycle industry has not followed suit for a variety of reasons. The JASO standard was formed by the Society of Automotive Engineers of Japan to better formulate motorcycle specific oils due to the automotive industry leaning towards thinner viscosity oil with lower coefficients of friction (friction modifiers) and go on to state and I quote, "Therefore it is a concern that 4-cycle engine oils for automobiles may cause clutch and transmission problems in motorcycle four cycle engines because the construction of the motorcycle engine is an “all in one” design." They then continue to list ongoing problems associated with the thinner viscosity oils that, "cause clutch slippage and gear pitting wear in motorcycle transmissions...leading to poor gear durability" with these problems tested and observed in the field.
JASO T 903 IMPLEMENTATION MANUAL
Furthermore from Chemistry and Technology of Lubricants they also state, ""As the integral motorcycle gearbox design can often give rise to higher shear loss in multi-grade lubricants than when used in passenger car application, after shear targets are set which reflect this while retaining sufficient base viscosity to afford an acceptable degree of gearbox wear protection from pitting or scuffing."
Chemistry and Technology of Lubricants by Roy M. Mortier, Malcolm F. Fox and Stefan T. Orszulik (December 1,2009)
Due to the fact that you will be in race conditions and displacing tremendous heat and stress to not only the motor, but also the clutch and the gearbox; I believe using the 40 grade oil would offer greater oil film strength and protection to the above stated parts. Furthermore, since the R6 uses wet clutch lubrication along with the extremely high percentage of shear that the oil will encounter that we've all seen through various UOA's (in and outside of race conditions) not just from the clutch/gearbox, but also from fuel dilution, I would rather have the oil shear (either from permanent or temporary shear) from a 40 down to a 30 grade, rather than from a 30 down to a possible 20 grade. While it is possible to attain a 1-2 hp increase from using a 30 grade due to having less viscous drag, I wouldn't be willing to take the risk of increased engine/gearbox wear that highly funded racers or racing teams can afford to take in order to achieve even the slightest increase in horsepower via more frequent rebuilds.
Lots of excellent feedback here, even if no one can seem to agree on a certain oil!
(From what I've found, the Redline oil is +/- $1 for a gallon vs. the Motul, so they're both a wash as far as cost goes in my case)
One thing for sure, since I already have the 300V in the bike - Do the UOA after a weekend and see where I am on it, and go from there.
Again, thanks - I can tell that your posts definitely took some time to create, and wanted you to know it's appreciated.
One thing for sure, since I already have the 300V in the bike - Do the UOA after a weekend and see where I am on it, and go from there.
Again, thanks - I can tell that your posts definitely took some time to create, and wanted you to know it's appreciated.
Originally Posted By: Eskimo
sunruh- This is my first year racing a 600, which spins the crank a helluvalot faster than my stock 1000 v-twin racebike did, with higher specific hp/L, and this one has more exacting tolerances. It's also 5k to replace if I lunch it in the middle of the season, so I'd like to do what I can to make it last.
Not sure what you mean by "weekend warrior", but if you're baiting or just trying to be generally condescending, I'm not interested. Thus far, both of your posts here have been laced with it.
i help run one of if not the biggest motorcycle forums on the planet. at this very instant i type this we have 1245 users online and 305,548 members. i have heard your question about - which is the best oil regardless of price well over a 1000 times in the 14years ive been help running that site. then once the real price is detailed, all gets changed. just like yours did above. thanks for proving it yet again.
sunruh- This is my first year racing a 600, which spins the crank a helluvalot faster than my stock 1000 v-twin racebike did, with higher specific hp/L, and this one has more exacting tolerances. It's also 5k to replace if I lunch it in the middle of the season, so I'd like to do what I can to make it last.
Not sure what you mean by "weekend warrior", but if you're baiting or just trying to be generally condescending, I'm not interested. Thus far, both of your posts here have been laced with it.
i help run one of if not the biggest motorcycle forums on the planet. at this very instant i type this we have 1245 users online and 305,548 members. i have heard your question about - which is the best oil regardless of price well over a 1000 times in the 14years ive been help running that site. then once the real price is detailed, all gets changed. just like yours did above. thanks for proving it yet again.
Originally Posted By: Eskimo
Lots of excellent feedback here, even if no one can seem to agree on a certain oil!
(From what I've found, the Redline oil is +/- $1 for a gallon vs. the Motul, so they're both a wash as far as cost goes in my case)
One thing for sure, since I already have the 300V in the bike - Do the UOA after a weekend and see where I am on it, and go from there.
Again, thanks - I can tell that your posts definitely took some time to create, and wanted you to know it's appreciated.
It really boils down to weather or not you want to run a premium synthetic or weather you're okay with shorter OCI's of a petroleum based motorcycle oil like Shell Rotella. I was curious though, you will have already broken in the motor prior to your initial race day correct? I have a co-worker that has an 09 R6 that has in excess of 30K miles and has been a dedicated track bike for the past 5,000 of those miles. While the engine was not purpose built by an engine tuner/builder, it is heavily modified and I have done a variety of mechanical work on his bike. He commonly races and instructs at Buttonwillow Raceway here in California and has only been willing to use synthetic oil in his bike. Initially he had used Motul 300V in a 10W40 viscosity, and then after long debating it, went to using Redline in their 20W50 variety due to the race conditions his bike sees, plus the fact that the ambient track temperatures can range anywhere from 80-100F degrees depending on the month. He hasn't noticed any longer lap times or a decrease in performance due to viscous drag, but he will commonly perform an OCI after three track days and the oil will have held up pretty well. With that being the case, I would perform a UOA after your second track day on the oil to see if you can establish any trends.
At that rate of performing an OCI every two races, I've seen many use Rotella 15W40 and have it perform flawlessly as well, especially considering how inexpensive it can be obtained and that it meets the highest JASO MA/MA2 specs and it's widespread success throughout this forum.
Shell Rotella 15W40 VOA
Lots of excellent feedback here, even if no one can seem to agree on a certain oil!
One thing for sure, since I already have the 300V in the bike - Do the UOA after a weekend and see where I am on it, and go from there.
Again, thanks - I can tell that your posts definitely took some time to create, and wanted you to know it's appreciated.
It really boils down to weather or not you want to run a premium synthetic or weather you're okay with shorter OCI's of a petroleum based motorcycle oil like Shell Rotella. I was curious though, you will have already broken in the motor prior to your initial race day correct? I have a co-worker that has an 09 R6 that has in excess of 30K miles and has been a dedicated track bike for the past 5,000 of those miles. While the engine was not purpose built by an engine tuner/builder, it is heavily modified and I have done a variety of mechanical work on his bike. He commonly races and instructs at Buttonwillow Raceway here in California and has only been willing to use synthetic oil in his bike. Initially he had used Motul 300V in a 10W40 viscosity, and then after long debating it, went to using Redline in their 20W50 variety due to the race conditions his bike sees, plus the fact that the ambient track temperatures can range anywhere from 80-100F degrees depending on the month. He hasn't noticed any longer lap times or a decrease in performance due to viscous drag, but he will commonly perform an OCI after three track days and the oil will have held up pretty well. With that being the case, I would perform a UOA after your second track day on the oil to see if you can establish any trends.
At that rate of performing an OCI every two races, I've seen many use Rotella 15W40 and have it perform flawlessly as well, especially considering how inexpensive it can be obtained and that it meets the highest JASO MA/MA2 specs and it's widespread success throughout this forum.
Shell Rotella 15W40 VOA
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
I wouldn't be willing to take the risk of increased engine/gearbox wear that highly funded racers or racing teams can afford to take in order to achieve even the slightest increase in horsepower via more frequent rebuilds.
What risk??? It doesn't matter if an owner runs a 30 40 or 50 viscosity oil no one is
wearing out their engines or gearboxes... but it does matter how much rear wheel HP is
wasted in oil drag...
I wouldn't be willing to take the risk of increased engine/gearbox wear that highly funded racers or racing teams can afford to take in order to achieve even the slightest increase in horsepower via more frequent rebuilds.
What risk??? It doesn't matter if an owner runs a 30 40 or 50 viscosity oil no one is
wearing out their engines or gearboxes... but it does matter how much rear wheel HP is
wasted in oil drag...
Originally Posted By: Eskimo
Anyway.. Larry, I am following your logic on viscosity. I'm not baiting when I ask this, but why not a 0w-20 then? (my guess is the additives packages and base stocks used for them are not desirable for this application, not because of anything inherent with the viscosity?)
You've chosen the wrong side.
I've seen "Larry" post absurdity like synthetic oil is more slippery and lots of complete and utter nonsense when it comes to engine oil.
He may know bikes but when it comes to oil he's less than educated and perpetuates many of the common myths associated with synthetic oils.
His posts about grade is nonsense. The bearings require a specific ht/hs value to keep them from rubbing,it's just that simple.
Sunruh on the other hand is as close as you are going to get to a motorcycle oil expert. If he seems rude it's because he's no nonsense and has very little time for dilly dally and so on.
So if your smart you'll listen to sunruh. He is the man when it comes to bike oils.
He's got hundreds of used oil analysis from various bikes using various oils,so condider that.
Go and read busy little shops posts since he's been a member here. If they don't clue you in to just how "misinformed" Larry is then you are beyond help.
Anyway.. Larry, I am following your logic on viscosity. I'm not baiting when I ask this, but why not a 0w-20 then? (my guess is the additives packages and base stocks used for them are not desirable for this application, not because of anything inherent with the viscosity?)
You've chosen the wrong side.
I've seen "Larry" post absurdity like synthetic oil is more slippery and lots of complete and utter nonsense when it comes to engine oil.
He may know bikes but when it comes to oil he's less than educated and perpetuates many of the common myths associated with synthetic oils.
His posts about grade is nonsense. The bearings require a specific ht/hs value to keep them from rubbing,it's just that simple.
Sunruh on the other hand is as close as you are going to get to a motorcycle oil expert. If he seems rude it's because he's no nonsense and has very little time for dilly dally and so on.
So if your smart you'll listen to sunruh. He is the man when it comes to bike oils.
He's got hundreds of used oil analysis from various bikes using various oils,so condider that.
Go and read busy little shops posts since he's been a member here. If they don't clue you in to just how "misinformed" Larry is then you are beyond help.
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
It really boils down to weather or not you want to run a premium synthetic or weather you're okay with shorter OCI's of a petroleum based motorcycle oil like Shell Rotella. I was curious though, you will have already broken in the motor prior to your initial race day correct?
The engine is broken in, but still fresh.. The previous owner ran a track day and 2 races with it.
I think what you said above is really the crux of my original query.. I'm willing to do an oil change after every race weekend, and am willing to do that OC with the Motul, if that's truly what it takes to protect the bike.
But from the sounds of it, 15-40 rotellaT will protect it just as well for the short amount of time it'll be in there with no downsides, so the cost savings is there, for my particular case.
Would you say that's a correct statement?
It really boils down to weather or not you want to run a premium synthetic or weather you're okay with shorter OCI's of a petroleum based motorcycle oil like Shell Rotella. I was curious though, you will have already broken in the motor prior to your initial race day correct?
The engine is broken in, but still fresh.. The previous owner ran a track day and 2 races with it.
I think what you said above is really the crux of my original query.. I'm willing to do an oil change after every race weekend, and am willing to do that OC with the Motul, if that's truly what it takes to protect the bike.
But from the sounds of it, 15-40 rotellaT will protect it just as well for the short amount of time it'll be in there with no downsides, so the cost savings is there, for my particular case.
Would you say that's a correct statement?
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Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
I wouldn't be willing to take the risk of increased engine/gearbox wear that highly funded racers or racing teams can afford to take in order to achieve even the slightest increase in horsepower via more frequent rebuilds.
What risk??? It doesn't matter if an owner runs a 30 40 or 50 viscosity oil no one is
wearing out their engines or gearboxes... but it does matter how much rear wheel HP is
wasted in oil drag...
The risk of increased wear is thouroughly documented in various books and manuals on the subject (hence the ones I previously used as references) and the primary reason that the Japanese Automotive Standard Organization developed the JASO MA specification that is used and accepted today throughout the motorcycle industry. I want to clarify that although many manufacturers allow the use of 10W30, it must be noted that the viscosities are highly dependent and based off ambient temperature. For example, my coworker racing his R6 at Buttonwillow Raceway where temperatures easily exceed 90F degrees plus the higher engine operating temps seen during those race conditions, as per the Yamaha service manual (and your own manual to your RC45) would have you use a 40 grade oil, not a 30 grade due to the tendency of the oil to thin at hotter temperatures and greater oil film strength.
Again, an additonal 1-2 hp could be achieved through using a thinner oil via a decrease in viscous drag, but that gain would be hardly recognizable while riding the bike, and as I mentioned earlier, my coworker noticed no drop in his lap times going from 10W40 to 20W50.
In addition, with the high tendency for shared sump motorcycles to cause shear instability (even outside of race conitions) and that fuel dilution can also decrease the oils operating viscosity, it would be wise to have a 40 grade shear down to a 30 grade rather than the possibility of it going from a 30 down to a 20 grade and be completely outside the manufactures oil viscosity recommendations for proper engine, clutch, and gearbox protection.
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
I wouldn't be willing to take the risk of increased engine/gearbox wear that highly funded racers or racing teams can afford to take in order to achieve even the slightest increase in horsepower via more frequent rebuilds.
What risk??? It doesn't matter if an owner runs a 30 40 or 50 viscosity oil no one is
wearing out their engines or gearboxes... but it does matter how much rear wheel HP is
wasted in oil drag...
The risk of increased wear is thouroughly documented in various books and manuals on the subject (hence the ones I previously used as references) and the primary reason that the Japanese Automotive Standard Organization developed the JASO MA specification that is used and accepted today throughout the motorcycle industry. I want to clarify that although many manufacturers allow the use of 10W30, it must be noted that the viscosities are highly dependent and based off ambient temperature. For example, my coworker racing his R6 at Buttonwillow Raceway where temperatures easily exceed 90F degrees plus the higher engine operating temps seen during those race conditions, as per the Yamaha service manual (and your own manual to your RC45) would have you use a 40 grade oil, not a 30 grade due to the tendency of the oil to thin at hotter temperatures and greater oil film strength.
Again, an additonal 1-2 hp could be achieved through using a thinner oil via a decrease in viscous drag, but that gain would be hardly recognizable while riding the bike, and as I mentioned earlier, my coworker noticed no drop in his lap times going from 10W40 to 20W50.
In addition, with the high tendency for shared sump motorcycles to cause shear instability (even outside of race conitions) and that fuel dilution can also decrease the oils operating viscosity, it would be wise to have a 40 grade shear down to a 30 grade rather than the possibility of it going from a 30 down to a 20 grade and be completely outside the manufactures oil viscosity recommendations for proper engine, clutch, and gearbox protection.
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Originally Posted By: Eskimo
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
It really boils down to weather or not you want to run a premium synthetic or weather you're okay with shorter OCI's of a petroleum based motorcycle oil like Shell Rotella. I was curious though, you will have already broken in the motor prior to your initial race day correct?
The engine is broken in, but still fresh.. The previous owner ran a track day and 2 races with it.
I think what you said above is really the crux of my original query.. I'm willing to do an oil change after every race weekend, and am willing to do that OC with the Motul, if that's truly what it takes to protect the bike.
But from the sounds of it, 15-40 rotellaT will protect it just as well for the short amount of time it'll be in there with no downsides, so the cost savings is there, for my particular case.
Would you say that's a correct statement?
I completely understand your dilemma Eskimo. If you're willing to swap out the oil every second race I would use the Rotella 15W40 without looking back. Again, after two races I would have a UOA performed to establish wear levels and trends and see how the lube held up. While the 300V is a great oil, the only way to get your money out of it would be to perform extended OCI'S which very well may not be possible while racing, while the Rotella meets the exact same specs and certifications as the 300V, but can be had at Walmart for $13 a gallon, and sadly that wouldn't even cover 1 qt. of 300V!
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
It really boils down to weather or not you want to run a premium synthetic or weather you're okay with shorter OCI's of a petroleum based motorcycle oil like Shell Rotella. I was curious though, you will have already broken in the motor prior to your initial race day correct?
The engine is broken in, but still fresh.. The previous owner ran a track day and 2 races with it.
I think what you said above is really the crux of my original query.. I'm willing to do an oil change after every race weekend, and am willing to do that OC with the Motul, if that's truly what it takes to protect the bike.
But from the sounds of it, 15-40 rotellaT will protect it just as well for the short amount of time it'll be in there with no downsides, so the cost savings is there, for my particular case.
Would you say that's a correct statement?
I completely understand your dilemma Eskimo. If you're willing to swap out the oil every second race I would use the Rotella 15W40 without looking back. Again, after two races I would have a UOA performed to establish wear levels and trends and see how the lube held up. While the 300V is a great oil, the only way to get your money out of it would be to perform extended OCI'S which very well may not be possible while racing, while the Rotella meets the exact same specs and certifications as the 300V, but can be had at Walmart for $13 a gallon, and sadly that wouldn't even cover 1 qt. of 300V!
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
BusyLittleShop said:
Or, you could say the difference is close to 25%.
How does it sound when I put it that way?
How does it sound when I put it that way?
Originally Posted By: Atesz792
Or, you could say the difference is close to 25%.
How does it sound when I put it that way?
That's a very big difference.
If one had an engine designed to run a 10w-40 grade oil and at the end of a race a UOA revealed a drop in viscosity in the order of 25%.
I should imagine the oil would be automatically condemned outright.
Let alone pour it in (extra thin) fresh out of the bottle.
IMO, this whole thin oil mantra is getting ridiculous.
Especially when ignorant people are extrapolating modern oil viscosity trends that are designed solely to pursue fuel economy, and are accompanied with the appropriate engineering, to equate to being some sort of new-age way forward and best for all machines currently in existence.
Or, you could say the difference is close to 25%.
How does it sound when I put it that way?
That's a very big difference.
If one had an engine designed to run a 10w-40 grade oil and at the end of a race a UOA revealed a drop in viscosity in the order of 25%.
I should imagine the oil would be automatically condemned outright.
Let alone pour it in (extra thin) fresh out of the bottle.
IMO, this whole thin oil mantra is getting ridiculous.
Especially when ignorant people are extrapolating modern oil viscosity trends that are designed solely to pursue fuel economy, and are accompanied with the appropriate engineering, to equate to being some sort of new-age way forward and best for all machines currently in existence.
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