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#356522 - 09/12/06 05:31 AM This question may seem dumb but.....
Highroller Offline


Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 491
Loc: Arlington, TX
ok guys, i've only used the pureone's previously and now i've been using a Napa gold oil filter. Whenever i startup using the napa gold oil filter, the needle on the oil pressure gauge would be higher than with the pureone's. This is my first time using any other filter besides pureone's and i'm a little concerned of the higher oil pressure during startup. It's not dangerously high but i need to know if it's just the more free flowing filter that is allowing the oil pressure to start up higher than the more restrictive pureone's?

The needle during startup with the pureone's always would start at the half point (between low and high). The needle with the napa gold would be a little higher at startup.
There's no oil leaks around the oil filter gaskets, no oil leaks anywhere (this is a new 06 titan). After warming up for about 20 mins. the needle would go back down to normal, stopping at the half point.

So, should i credit my higher oil pressure during startup to the higher psi of the supposedly more flowing napa gold oil filter? These big V8 engines take about forever to warmup and i usually see the needle going up and down alot before the 20min. warmup due to stoppage and acceleration. With the napa gold, accelerating to about 30mph from a stop would make the needle go higher near the High mark than with the pureone's. I just get nervous when that needle goes up near that High mark even when i'm gently taking the speed up to 30mph. Thanks for the schooling and any comments would be completely appreciated if it's even bad ones. [Big Grin]

[ September 12, 2006, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Highroller ]

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#356523 - 09/12/06 05:47 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Engine? Where's your sender?

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#356524 - 09/12/06 05:53 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12920
Loc: By Detroit
If you have a Ford, likely you have a dummy gauge that reads somewhere in the middle when there is more than say 8 or 9 psi (or whatever the setting is) and shows no pressure when below that. With the engine hot the needle on a real gauge will move up and down going from idle to say 2000 rpms. If it dosen't you have a dummy gauge. The higher reading would then just be a coincidence. Wix is very good and not restrictive.

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#356525 - 09/12/06 06:39 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Highroller Offline


Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 491
Loc: Arlington, TX
oops forgot to mention that it's a 06 nissan titan V8 5.6L.

-Gary, i dont know what you mean by sender?

-TallPaul,i think it's coincidence too that one would expect a higher oil pressure reading on the gauge during startup and warmup operations with a Napa Gold over a Pureone but im just trying to make sure if this is somewhat normal because i dont know what to expect being with a new vehicle and with a new oil filter being on there. From the first time i bought the truck, it's always been like that with the needle going up and down during stop and acceleration for the initial 20 min. warmup drive (so i guess it's a normal thing to do?). After warmup, needle on the oil pressure gauge stays relatively still at the middle mark.

thanks for the input guys.

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#356526 - 09/12/06 08:04 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12920
Loc: By Detroit
Strange. Mine stays high until warmed up and then when hot will fluctuate with RPM. But it does sound like you have a real gauge.

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#356527 - 09/12/06 08:07 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Oil sender/sensor location. Above or below the filter.

I've only heard of it happening a couple of times ..where you get higher pressure readings with a different filter. If this was an older vehicle, I'd say that your relief valve was stuck or scored ..but it's not likely. This would have me thinking that your sender/sensor is between the pump and the filter ..and that you don't reach the relief setting ..but this filter is showing more resistance then a PureOne. If you had a real gauge it would be a little easier to index. Normally a filter adds up to nothing in added pressure production ..maybe 2 psi added. It usually passes quickly. You'll see engines that, upon startup, gain pressure to a certain point ..and then the needle slows and finally comes to rest at a peak pressure.

If I read you correctly, after warm up the reading(s) are normal [Confused]

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#356528 - 09/12/06 09:29 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Highroller Offline


Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 491
Loc: Arlington, TX
-TallPaul, after engine operations are fully warmed, the only times the pressure readings would fluctuate is when i do WOTs (usually 2600 rpm and above). During normal street drivings,from stop to accel, it would only get to about 2200 rpm and then shift gears and the pressure readings would stay in the same position.

-Gary, i wish i can comment on the oil sender location. Maybe ill try to research and come up with something in a lil. I forgot to mention one key VERY important thing that may trigger another debate. I did two oil filter changes over several days ago. This Napa gold oil filter is the second one and is the current one on right now. The first one was a Wix. I noticed that both of these filters had higher pressure readings upon startup. I changed out the Wix, because i saw oil leaking out of the gasket. My oil filter mount is slanted downwards ( about 45 degree angle). The oil was leaking towards the bottom end of the gasket, and was dripping down towards the top part of the oil filter. I was certain that i tighten properly, 3/4 turns after contact like always... But, so far with the napa gold, no visible leaks to be seen.
And yes, after driving for about 10-20 mins., the needle or pressure readings stays down at the midpoint of the gauge. So, whenever i stop and accel again, the pressure readings dont fluctuate as did during initial warmup operations (about the first 10 mins. of driving). I consider this to be normal for this truck because it has been like this since the day i bought this truck new (it only had 15 miles at the time if that helps).

Maybe if i can go back to the pureone's during this oci, i can see if the pressure readings are the way that it should be when i had my previous pureone's on. i havent been to pepboys in awhile but does anyone know if they still have them on the shelves?

[ September 13, 2006, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Highroller ]

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#356529 - 09/12/06 09:52 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Hmm. I wonder if the gauge is just dampened slow enough that you don't see slight fluctuations unless they're above a certain level. You should always have an decent span between cold and hot visc/pressure. Your running pressure (hot) should be lower at idle and higher when cruising. This doesn't appear to happen in your case.

I'm just wondering if they compress the gauge response into a narrow range and it doesn't change until you've gone beyond a certain amount. Many temp gauges are setup this way. They hang mostly at center span unless you're really approaching high temps.

This still wouldn't explain the different reading with a WIX/NAPA over a PureOne.

I'd really love to get to the bottom of this. Unfortunately, I think that you're not going to see it with another PureOne ...and just leave it at that. That's what I'd normally do ..but I'm no longer normal [Big Grin]

This occurred in my wife's jeep. For years it hit 58psi when cold and stayed there when off idle. It would maybe push just a little higher for a couple of minutes when it was cold out (40's or lower). Then, this past winter, it started to push to almost 80lbs [Eek!] . I thought that it may have something to do with the filter (but I couldn't imagine what [Confused] ) so I swapped out the Ecore for a PureOne ..and the same thing happened. I then knew that my relief valve was stuck/scored/varnished/whatever.

For the filter to effect an elevation in pressure, the sender has to be between the pump and the filter ..and then I'm lost. The relief should limit the peak pressure .. even if the filter is (almost) clogged.

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#356530 - 09/12/06 10:14 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Highroller Offline


Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 491
Loc: Arlington, TX
Is there anyway that an oil pressure gauge can be related to an oil temp. gauge?

It seems so with this particular vehicle...

My main concern now is that of oil pressure. I would like to know if it's the filter that's causing the higher pressure readings upon startup. Could it be that i have a super-sensitive oil pressure sender/sensor? [I dont know] [LOL!] I tend to believe that Wix/Napa are less resistant than Pureones and that in itself could account for the higher pressure readings im getting at startup (more oil flowing/less resistance = more oil pressure)? But i guess it shouldn't impact the oil pressure readings that much like you said, Gary. Maybe my next oil change, ill use a pureone and then another napa gold after that to see if there's any change, if any.

Well, i gave it an effort. Thanks for all the inputs guys. Ill post any change whenever it may occur. I plan on sticking with this napa gold until after i do an UOA of this (using 5.5 qt GC green and 1 qt GC gold if anyone wants to know). Might be skewed due to the oil filter change after 300 miles but these are my last qts. of GC green.

[ September 13, 2006, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Highroller ]

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#356531 - 09/12/06 06:25 PM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Pete C. Offline


Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 938
Loc: Zip 28056
Did you by any chance change your oil weight when you changed your filter?

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#356532 - 09/12/06 07:27 PM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
I'd ask that question too ..except that in every instance I can remember (with few exceptions) using a higher viscosity usually meant that you remained at peak pressure longer ..or reached it more often. That is, you always went to a peak pressure at startup ..but it took longer (the oil getting more fluid or warmer) to come off of the peak. Not that you didn't reach it.

No matter how I mix it up I can't get it to work. The only instance that this makes sense is where the relief isn't integrated with the oil pump and the system is relieved down stream from the filter. This is the case with the PS and some marine applications (Volvo). I've never seen it in a passenger car/LT engine before [I dont know]

I also think that the PureOne should, in a zero downstream PSID comparison, should be more restrictive then a WIX.

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#356533 - 09/12/06 08:24 PM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Highroller Offline


Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 491
Loc: Arlington, TX
I was using Mobil 1 T&SUV 5w-30 SM AND also switched to GC green 0w-30 with pureones and it "peaked" normally before. This is the first time that this has happened when i switched to another filter; actually like i said, this has happened with two Wix/napa filters.

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#356534 - 09/12/06 08:30 PM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12920
Loc: By Detroit
quote:
Originally posted by Highroller:
(more oil flowing/less resistance = more oil pressure)?

Greater flow/less resistance = lower pressure. This is why pressure should drop from cold to hot oil as the oil thins when it warms.

I should note I have had engines where the pressure hits the warm peak just off idle. Others, it will climb fairly uniformly up to around 2000 rpm.

You should have highest pressure cold and gauge reading fluctuation hot. May only see fluctuation from idle up to 1200 or 1500 rpm though.

There was a thread (for the life of me I can't remember where or even all that much of the content or even if it was on BITOG) about a new type of dummy gauge that unlike the Ford "gauge" (off or on), actually gives variable readings, but they were not direct from oil pressure (or were they even off oil pressure at all). Maybe it reads oil temperature and converts into dampened oil pressure readings (who knows).

These goofy pseudo gauges come about because dealers don't like customers bringing cars back saying something is wrong because the oil pressure gauge is fluctuating wildly. Hey, I was fooled (or a fool) for many years thinking I had very good oil pressure, not knowing I was looking at an idiot gauge.

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#356535 - 09/12/06 08:54 PM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
That's what I'm wondering. Not necessarily a true idiot gauge ..but one that's spanned to be fairly number and gravitate toward center span. That is, it reacts very little until you reach a certain level.

That still wouldn't explain a difference with just a swap of a filter. [I dont know]

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#356536 - 09/13/06 09:27 AM Re: This question may seem dumb but.....
TallPaul Offline


Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 12920
Loc: By Detroit
Well the expert is stumped too. I guess, so long as the gauge does not peg the high end and is running in the "normal" range, you really don't have anything to worry about. Now, if it were me, I would keep on worrying this thing to death and finally end up installing a real gauge. First step would be to research what type of "gauge" is in it. If real, then need to fix it. If not, replace.

If nothing else, intensely focusing on this gauge issue will help you forget about your other problems and give you a sense of purpose in life. Ah, when all else fails, philosophize.

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