I ran 20-50 in a 98 suburban what called for 5-30 in about its third oil change. The truck is still alive and doing well. Truck didn't know the difference.
Why The Dislike For 20W-50?
- Thread starter Red91
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My airplane likes 20W50. Not sure why you would use it in a car engine.
Originally Posted By: Red91
Just curious....why is 20W-50 so unpopular among most members on this board? I understand that things change, and modern car makers are calling for thinner oils, but why is 20W-50 spoken of with contempt in older cars and applications? It seems it was very popular from the 80's up until the middle of the last decade. I've used it in the past and even have some I purchased recently for top off. I find no fault with it, in the right application. These days I use QSGB 5W-30, but my truck is burning some oil, and next time it needs a quart, it's getting QSGB 20W-50.
Nothing wrong with 20W50. Of course the fact that there's nothing wrong with a hand crank car doesn't inspire me to drive one.
Just curious....why is 20W-50 so unpopular among most members on this board? I understand that things change, and modern car makers are calling for thinner oils, but why is 20W-50 spoken of with contempt in older cars and applications? It seems it was very popular from the 80's up until the middle of the last decade. I've used it in the past and even have some I purchased recently for top off. I find no fault with it, in the right application. These days I use QSGB 5W-30, but my truck is burning some oil, and next time it needs a quart, it's getting QSGB 20W-50.
Nothing wrong with 20W50. Of course the fact that there's nothing wrong with a hand crank car doesn't inspire me to drive one.
Why buy 20W50 when you can get SAE50 for the same price?
A modern group 2 SAE50 will likely pass 25W, and it has a 1001 uses.
(About 999 of them would tilt this pin-ball machine.)
A modern group 2 SAE50 will likely pass 25W, and it has a 1001 uses.
(About 999 of them would tilt this pin-ball machine.)
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: zray
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
There is nothing to dislike if I can't use it in my oldest car that spec for 10w30.
That shouldnt stop you. I use M-1. 15w-50 in all my vintage cars: Mustsngs, Shelbys, , jaguar XKE, , triumph. They all are driven very hard, and love that oil. Over 100,000 in some of the Mistangs and Shelbys, zero measurable wear.
Z
How are you checking wear just curious?
I changed oil pan gasket and real main seal. It easy to drop the crankshaft a bit to facilitate the seal replacement. Once a couple of the main bearing caps,are off you can see if there is any wear. Placti-gauge was simple to use at that point. I checked half the rod beings in the same manner.
A very simple procedure and only adds an hour at most to the rear seal replacement job.
Z
Originally Posted By: zray
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
There is nothing to dislike if I can't use it in my oldest car that spec for 10w30.
That shouldnt stop you. I use M-1. 15w-50 in all my vintage cars: Mustsngs, Shelbys, , jaguar XKE, , triumph. They all are driven very hard, and love that oil. Over 100,000 in some of the Mistangs and Shelbys, zero measurable wear.
Z
How are you checking wear just curious?
I changed oil pan gasket and real main seal. It easy to drop the crankshaft a bit to facilitate the seal replacement. Once a couple of the main bearing caps,are off you can see if there is any wear. Placti-gauge was simple to use at that point. I checked half the rod beings in the same manner.
A very simple procedure and only adds an hour at most to the rear seal replacement job.
Z
In the early '90s I drove a '79 Buick Estate Wagon with the 403 CID V-8. I was in my early 20s and didn't know much. Someone convinced me that 20W-50 was better than 10W-40 so I started using it. The car seemed to run fine, but the timing chain broke at about 100k miles. Probably had nothing to do with lubrication.
My Alfa specs Euro 15w-50, so for years I used Kendall GT-1 High Performance 20w-50 for its higher zinc levels. When it got harder to find locally, I switched to Rotella 15w-40. I don't think the old girl minds it.
Originally Posted By: Red91
Just curious....why is 20W-50 so unpopular among most members on this board? I understand that things change, and modern car makers are calling for thinner oils, but why is 20W-50 spoken of with contempt in older cars and applications? It seems it was very popular from the 80's up until the middle of the last decade. I've used it in the past and even have some I purchased recently for top off. I find no fault with it, in the right application. These days I use QSGB 5W-30, but my truck is burning some oil, and next time it needs a quart, it's getting QSGB 20W-50.
I would say it is mostly group think.
Just curious....why is 20W-50 so unpopular among most members on this board? I understand that things change, and modern car makers are calling for thinner oils, but why is 20W-50 spoken of with contempt in older cars and applications? It seems it was very popular from the 80's up until the middle of the last decade. I've used it in the past and even have some I purchased recently for top off. I find no fault with it, in the right application. These days I use QSGB 5W-30, but my truck is burning some oil, and next time it needs a quart, it's getting QSGB 20W-50.
I would say it is mostly group think.
20W-50 is very much an obsolete dino grade although it is still popular in some hot third world countries as it's cheap.
With any vehicle you're better off with the much higher VI 5W-50 or even a 5W/10W-60 if you actually need a heavy oil.
With any vehicle you're better off with the much higher VI 5W-50 or even a 5W/10W-60 if you actually need a heavy oil.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
With any vehicle you're better off with the much higher VI 5W-50 or even a 5W/10W-60 if you actually need a heavy oil.
Not sure why anybody who needed the HTHS of a 15W40 would be directed towards a 50, with a 40 grade HTHS, which to quote some on the board shears out of grade as you pour it out of the bottle.
If you need an HTHS in the low to mid 4s, you'd be best advised getting that in a lower VI 40 than an non shear stable unstable 50...e.g. Amsoil 10W40 is same KV40 as M1 5W50 for near same HTHS, 4.2 versus 4.4.
If you need an HTHS in the 5s...then you don't get there using a 5W/10W 50 or 60.
With any vehicle you're better off with the much higher VI 5W-50 or even a 5W/10W-60 if you actually need a heavy oil.
Not sure why anybody who needed the HTHS of a 15W40 would be directed towards a 50, with a 40 grade HTHS, which to quote some on the board shears out of grade as you pour it out of the bottle.
If you need an HTHS in the low to mid 4s, you'd be best advised getting that in a lower VI 40 than an non shear stable unstable 50...e.g. Amsoil 10W40 is same KV40 as M1 5W50 for near same HTHS, 4.2 versus 4.4.
If you need an HTHS in the 5s...then you don't get there using a 5W/10W 50 or 60.
Well that's your old school opinion which every
modern auto manufacturer disagrees with.
Hence the only 50 grade oil on the Porsche A40 list is a 5W-50 and for virgin 5cP HTHS applications it's the 10W-60 grade for certain M series BMWs, Bugattis etc.
In fact even the 10W-40 grade is obsolete for auto applications let alone the 15W-40 grade.
modern auto manufacturer disagrees with.
Hence the only 50 grade oil on the Porsche A40 list is a 5W-50 and for virgin 5cP HTHS applications it's the 10W-60 grade for certain M series BMWs, Bugattis etc.
In fact even the 10W-40 grade is obsolete for auto applications let alone the 15W-40 grade.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Well that's your old school opinion which every
modern auto manufacturer disagrees with.
Hence the only 50 grade oil on the Porsche A40 list is a 5W-50
This list ???
Populated almost entirely with 5W40s and only two 5W50 offerings, both of which are a Mobil 1 5W50...looks like Porsche agree with me CATERHAM.
Well that's your old school opinion which every
modern auto manufacturer disagrees with.
Hence the only 50 grade oil on the Porsche A40 list is a 5W-50
This list ???
Populated almost entirely with 5W40s and only two 5W50 offerings, both of which are a Mobil 1 5W50...looks like Porsche agree with me CATERHAM.
My JD LT130 tractor with TuffTorq K51 transaxle loves 20W50. In fact, many hystat transaxles run better on 20W50.
For car engines, unless I have an old school force fed cammed up thumper, I'll pass, but I would use it if I had to. As others have said, if the conditions are right, it wont harm a thing.
For car engines, unless I have an old school force fed cammed up thumper, I'll pass, but I would use it if I had to. As others have said, if the conditions are right, it wont harm a thing.
I have to disagree with the term "obsolete", in reference to thicker, older grades of engine oil. If it is still on the spec list of a current production car, which it is in most non NA countries, then it isn't obsolete. Personally, I disagree with the term "obsolete" altogether. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's worse. Just because something "better" has come about, doesn't mean the old was bad to begin with. Even if 20W-50 is one day removed from spec list in hotter climates, I'd still disagree with it being obsolete. Someone, somewhere, has a use for it, and more than likely it's an automotive use. I respect everyone's opinion on the matter, honestly, I do. Calling anything above a 5W-30 obsolete however, seems like diluted misinformation. Even ND 30 isn't obsolete; it has purposes that it will meet just fine. I use it in air compressor pumps, and I'd probably use it in a Model T Ford with it's original running gear. That.........or 20W-50
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Well that's your old school opinion which every
modern auto manufacturer disagrees with.
Hence the only 50 grade oil on the Porsche A40 list is a 5W-50
This list ???
Populated almost entirely with 5W40s and only two 5W50 offerings, both of which are a Mobil 1 5W50...looks like Porsche agree with me CATERHAM.
Do try to stay focused, this thread is about the 20W-50 grade which Porsche has stopped recommending for model years going back at least
30 years.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Well that's your old school opinion which every
modern auto manufacturer disagrees with.
Hence the only 50 grade oil on the Porsche A40 list is a 5W-50
This list ???
Populated almost entirely with 5W40s and only two 5W50 offerings, both of which are a Mobil 1 5W50...looks like Porsche agree with me CATERHAM.
Do try to stay focused, this thread is about the 20W-50 grade which Porsche has stopped recommending for model years going back at least
30 years.
Originally Posted By: Red91
I have to disagree with the term "obsolete", in reference to thicker, older grades of engine oil. If it is still on the spec list of a current production car, which it is in most non NA countries, then it isn't obsolete. Personally, I disagree with the term "obsolete" altogether. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's worse. Just because something "better" has come about, doesn't mean the old was bad to begin with. Even if 20W-50 is one day removed from spec list in hotter climates, I'd still disagree with it being obsolete. Someone, somewhere, has a use for it, and more than likely it's an automotive use. I respect everyone's opinion on the matter, honestly, I do. Calling anything above a 5W-30 obsolete however, seems like diluted misinformation. Even ND 30 isn't obsolete; it has purposes that it will meet just fine. I use it in air compressor pumps, and I'd probably use it in a Model T Ford with it's original running gear. That.........or 20W-50
I don't know why you have a problem with the word "obsolete" because it doesn't mean that an obsolete product will no longer work.
A rotary dial phone will still work but it is certainly obsolete. How long does it take for the latest smart phone to become obsolete? Two years or less.
The 20W-50 grade is certainly obsolete as it has been replaced with equally heavy (for the few engines that actually require it) 15W/10W/5W/0W-50/60 grades that don't have the same cold start performance limitations.
I have to disagree with the term "obsolete", in reference to thicker, older grades of engine oil. If it is still on the spec list of a current production car, which it is in most non NA countries, then it isn't obsolete. Personally, I disagree with the term "obsolete" altogether. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's worse. Just because something "better" has come about, doesn't mean the old was bad to begin with. Even if 20W-50 is one day removed from spec list in hotter climates, I'd still disagree with it being obsolete. Someone, somewhere, has a use for it, and more than likely it's an automotive use. I respect everyone's opinion on the matter, honestly, I do. Calling anything above a 5W-30 obsolete however, seems like diluted misinformation. Even ND 30 isn't obsolete; it has purposes that it will meet just fine. I use it in air compressor pumps, and I'd probably use it in a Model T Ford with it's original running gear. That.........or 20W-50
I don't know why you have a problem with the word "obsolete" because it doesn't mean that an obsolete product will no longer work.
A rotary dial phone will still work but it is certainly obsolete. How long does it take for the latest smart phone to become obsolete? Two years or less.
The 20W-50 grade is certainly obsolete as it has been replaced with equally heavy (for the few engines that actually require it) 15W/10W/5W/0W-50/60 grades that don't have the same cold start performance limitations.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Do try to stay focused, this thread is about the 20W-50 grade which Porsche has stopped recommending for model years going back at least
30 years.
OK, speaking of staying focussed...hands up who brought 5W50, 5W60, 10W60, OEMs, and the Porsche list into the thread...then when pressed claims the other is getting distracted.
Your SOP is getting old CATERHAM.
You brought in the unicorn grades, then Porsche. Porsche Clearly don't think the HTHS of a 50 grade is warranted, so your argument regarding them is pointless.
Do try to stay focused, this thread is about the 20W-50 grade which Porsche has stopped recommending for model years going back at least
30 years.
OK, speaking of staying focussed...hands up who brought 5W50, 5W60, 10W60, OEMs, and the Porsche list into the thread...then when pressed claims the other is getting distracted.
Your SOP is getting old CATERHAM.
You brought in the unicorn grades, then Porsche. Porsche Clearly don't think the HTHS of a 50 grade is warranted, so your argument regarding them is pointless.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The 20W-50 grade is certainly obsolete as it has been replaced with equally heavy (for the few engines that actually require it) 15W/10W/5W/0W-50/60 grades that don't have the same cold start performance limitations.
I thought that you were an advocate of the HTHS being the indicator of oil grade, both by statement, and your continual reference to Redline 30s being 40s etc. 5W50 is not "equally heavy" as 20W50 in HTHS, only in Kinematic...and it's clearly not as shear stable.
So which is the new CATERHAM definition of oil grade, HTHS or KV...?
The 20W-50 grade is certainly obsolete as it has been replaced with equally heavy (for the few engines that actually require it) 15W/10W/5W/0W-50/60 grades that don't have the same cold start performance limitations.
I thought that you were an advocate of the HTHS being the indicator of oil grade, both by statement, and your continual reference to Redline 30s being 40s etc. 5W50 is not "equally heavy" as 20W50 in HTHS, only in Kinematic...and it's clearly not as shear stable.
So which is the new CATERHAM definition of oil grade, HTHS or KV...?
I just don't care for it is all. It's a word similar to retarded, gay, fat, ugly, etc. It's a word meant to separate the supreme from the filth, the upper class from the peasants. It's basis is to demean one to promote another. I believe on a forum dedicated to oil, we should be more accepting of all grades, whether we'd use them personally or not. Telling a new member not to use 20W-50 in an application that is acceptable is not a fair use of the knowledge. For instance, if a new member post that they are looking for an oil recommendation for a '75 Cadillac Eldorado with a 500ci V8, or a '72 Duster with a slant 6, QSGB 20W-50 is an acceptable grade for those engines. As is M1 15W-50, PYB 5W-30, Rotella 15W-40, GC 0W-30, Havoline 10W-30, etc. All can be and should be considered, rather than everyone going for one oil, one grade, end of story. None of the suggestions are wrong, just as neither are the opinions and personal experiences associated with them. I personally admire your research and experience with thin oils, and many of your findings have made me feel better about thin oils in general. I just can't get behind thin being the be all, end all answer for every scenario. As for the word obsolete, I just find it to be derogatory. Maybe that's a personal flaw of mine. (shrug)
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