Please school me on Diesel Maint vs. Gas

[wn1998]

I am very interested in a 2013 VW golf TDI with 17k on the the clock at the local dealer. What exactly am I getting myself into if I do make the plunge into the diesel world.

1. OCI- I currently change my own and do 6 month 8-9k OCI's
2. Anythng else that must be done every year or every other year that I don't currently do
3. I live in Chicago and car is garaged. Do I need a block heater or will I have fuel gel issues with our severe winters?

Thank you all!

 

[expat]

I know people that live in Calgary that have one and just drive it with recommended OCI's

Starts just like a gas engine.

 

[krismoriah72]

I had a 2009 TDI Jetta that i bought brand new. I loved the car but its quirky and hard to get used to. During the winter without block heater...it takes a very long time to warm up.. just idling would probably take 30 minutes to get heat inside the car. Driving takes about the same amount of time to warm up. The TDI has almost no power until its warmed up, test drive one cold to see what i mean.

Oil changes- about the same as a normal car..u need to use special oil 5W40 or 10w30 diesel synthetic. The belly pan is a pain to change oil but you get used to it once u get the special tools.

Maintenance- timing belts are not fun.. special tools are needed and better off getting a dealer to do them..pricy. On mine i felt like most things were designed for a dealer to do.

Fuel- most every place has diesel fuel now..but u will be paying more at the pump for the fuel. Yes u get better mileage but in the end u still have to pay more for the fuel.

Starting- mine had glowplugs...so u turn the key to a position then wait for a light to go out then u crank..no big deal.

Its a good fun car for someone that wants a little bit quirky..fun can be had with hypermiling and getting the 50mpg tanks.. it sounds and feels good to put your foot into the turbo and hear it whistle but u will be defeating the purpose.

 

[Newreet]

You'll get the best information on this and related questions at www.tdiclub.com

The following maintenance information is based on my 2005.5 Jetta TDI:

• The fuel filter is changed more often. My owner's manual says to do it every 20K miles; I do it every 15K miles. The Mann filters I use are typically $20 to $25 and I usually buy them at Amazon. Changing the fuel filter is rather easy because it is located at the top of the engine and involves unscrewing 5 little bolts, raising the cover (with the little hoses still connected), sliding the old filter out, removing a little bit of diesel fuel from the filter canister to prevent splashing, sliding the new filter in, laying a new gasket on top of the filter, and replacing the ring gasket on the cover.
• The oil is changed less often but is more expensive to buy and harder to locate. My owner's manual says to do it every 10K miles and this is what I do. I don't remember the price because I buy several of them at a time maybe once every 3 years from places on the Internet that sell VW maintenance things. The oil must meet a VW specification noted in the owner's manual. Not many of the places that sell motor oil sell oil that meets the VW specs, so again I usually get it from places on the Internet that sell VW maintenance things. PepBoys has one oil that meets the VW specs for my engine. My engine needs 4.5 to 5 liters of oil at each oil change. The oil is usually $6 to $15 per liter depending on where we buy it. Changing it is easy because the oil filter is located at the top of the engine. I use an oil suction device to remove the oil from the oil pan through the dip stick tube, so for oil changes I never get under the car. Some people have strong opinions on the use of oil suction devices versus removing/replacing the bolt on the oil pan so I will leave it at that.
• Mine has a manual transmission. I've heard the VW automatic transmissions (called DSG, direct shift gearbox) require service by the dealer every 40K miles which means resetting a computer, changing the fluid, changing the filter, and paying a bill that could be between $250 and $400. If the transmission is not manual then get a quote from the local VW dealers or other places that can do this service.
• The engine has a timing belt which must be replaced based on the change interval found in the owner's manual. I think for my engine it is every 90K or 100K miles. This is fairly labor intensive so the cost is relatively high. The cost is also relatively high because it is not uncommon to find TTY (torque to yield) bolts that stretch slightly when first tightened and need to be replaced each time they are removed. Also as with most other engines diesel and gasoline alike, it makes sense to change the water pump and the coolant/antifreeze at the same time.

This is all I can think of mentioning based on my car. Of course there are other things such as cabin/pollen air filters and engine air filters, batteries, headlight bulbs, tires, etc. but those are all in line with what we'd find with a vehicle containing a gasoline engine.

Yes I listed 4 things that can be viewed as negatives for a VW vehicle with a diesel engine. However there are also many positives for a VW vehicle with a diesel engine. You probably know them already since you are considering a for a VW vehicle with a diesel engine. By the same token there are also negatives and positives for a vehicle with a gasoline engine. The bottom line is we all have different needs and while for some drivers a vehicle with a gasoline engine makes sense there are also other drivers where a vehicle with a diesel engine makes sense.

For me diesel was the answer because I drive about 100 highway miles daily and needed a vehicle that uses the least amount of fuel (and indirectly requires the fewest trips to the gas station). Going 700 to 850 miles on each tank of diesel is the norm for me. My tank holds 14.5 gallons. The price of diesel varies from station to station, with time, and generally costs more relative to gasoline during the times of the year homeowners tend to get their oil furnace tanks refilled. Typically diesel costs close to the price of high octane gasoline but again it varies. Since my car averages in the mid 50s - nearly twice what most of the other vehicles on the roads with me average - I am not bothered by this.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[cpayne5]

I have a 2013 Passat, so my experience should be similar to what you're looking for.

VW offers free service for the first 30k miles. Oil changes, air filters, fuel filter, tire rotations, etc. Not sure if this is transferable on a used car. We bought our Passat new January 4, 2013 (ordered it). Have nearly 40k on it now.

I did my own 30k service as the VW dealer is an hour away and I have a fairly well setup garage/shop (with a lift), so I just did it myself.

VW specs 507.00 oil (which is a 5w-30). I buy Pennzoil Ultra Euro L from Amazon via subscription. It was $43ish for my last delivery of 6 quarts. I find that Wix via Amazon is the cheapest, most convenient filter to obtain. $13 (though I found a "used" one on Amazon this time that cost me only $7 - it was brand new, but the box wasn't pristine). The oil changes end up being a little more costly than my other vehicles, but VW specs 10k OCIs.


Fuel filters get changed every 20k. Timing belt interval is 30k. Mine is a manual, so I don't have to worry about the 40k DSG service.

The car has been great. Trouble free. I was leery at buying a VW at first, but it's been just as reliable through these first 40k miles as any car I've owned.

Mine doesn't have a blockheater and started and ran fine in the 0* weather the polar vortex brought my area last winter.

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

Timing belt interval is 30k.


?; Astounding. I suspect this would be a non starter as a consideration for purchase for a large # of bitogrs.

 

[Mackelroy]

I prefer vehicles the you can easily see the oil filter and the drain plug and not have to jack up the vehicle to change the oil.

Last time I looked at the vw's the had a big cover covering the whole bottom side of the motor. That was a turn off to me doing my own changes.

 

[Cardenio327]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts

Timing belt interval is 30k.


Looks like it is 80,000 miles for 2002 and newer. Prior to 2002 it was 60,000 for manual transmission equipped TDIs and 40,000 for automatics.

Wasn't there a law in California that made it illegal to sell a new car which had a timing belt interval of less than 100,000 miles?

 

[dblshock]

burn up your fuel savings and valuable time at the VW service desk..no thanks.

 

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

Timing belt interval is 30k.


?; Astounding. I suspect this would be a non starter as a consideration for purchase for a large # of bitogrs.


Sorry, the timing belt interval is 130k for my Passat. Typo.

I believe the Golf/Jetta TDI from the same model year is 120k.

 

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
I prefer vehicles the you can easily see the oil filter and the drain plug and not have to jack up the vehicle to change the oil.

Last time I looked at the vw's the had a big cover covering the whole bottom side of the motor. That was a turn off to me doing my own changes.


Yeah, in order to change the oil in my Passat, you have to remove a belly cover. I have a lift in my garage which makes it a lot easier, but it shouldn't be too difficult to remove with ramps. I've done worse jobs using ramps and/or stands.

The cartridge oil filter is accessible from up top.

 

[Fordtrucktexan]

I thought about a diesel Jetta for the fuel economy and well, let's be honest, it's kinda cool to say you have a diesel car. I read about the 30k timing belt and other maintenance items, and decided the gasser Saturn I daily drive now will be fine.

The diesel truck I have now has required just a little maintenance. Here's a pic from the last time something went wrong. Luckily I don't mind a challenge and have tools, otherwise I couldn't afford to maintain this truck at all.

 

[supton]

^ looks like minor maintance.

I have never taken the oil drain bolt out of my 2004 VW; only topside oil changes. I even did an OCI at 14k a time or two. 300kmiles later... I wouldn't say it purrs but it clearly still runs. Initially I did fuel filters every 20k but after 100k I started doing every 40k. I figure, the worst that can happen is low fuel flow if I go too long.

But the DPF is something stupid, requiring checking after 120k(?) and possibly an expensive replacement. I mean, if you go in knowing how often to replace the timing belt, and the DPF, and what it will cost, you can factor that into the decision making process, and plan around it.

Me, I like the car, but when it's done, back to gas I go. DPF, crazy injection system cost if it breaks, and having to drive hours to get competent service. It's been fun, but I own a spare vehicle now for a reason.

I agree with the suggestion to go to tdiclub.com for more info.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

Timing belt interval is 30k.


?; Astounding. I suspect this would be a non starter as a consideration for purchase for a large # of bitogrs.
Then you will never buy exotic Italians in your life

 

[wn1998]

Thank you all for the help. After reading up at the TDI forums I don't think the diesel route is the way for me to go. Thank you for all of your replies.

 

[hattaresguy]

After about 2005ish when the emissions got really bad diesel hasn't made financial sense anymore.

I have owned several diesel cars and love them, but the newest I'd consider is a 2005 E320CDI with the last of the I6's.

 

[2004tdigls]

you do not need to remove the belly pan to change the oil, purchase an oil extractor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTzkM-TXxCA

I own a 2004 tdi and I have never removed the belly pan or the oil pan bolt (which is subject to stripping)

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
I had a 2009 TDI Jetta that i bought brand new. I loved the car but its quirky and hard to get used to. During the winter without block heater...it takes a very long time to warm up.. just idling would probably take 30 minutes to get heat inside the car. Driving takes about the same amount of time to warm up. The TDI has almost no power until its warmed up, test drive one cold to see what i mean.

Oil changes- about the same as a normal car..u need to use special oil 5W40 or 10w30 diesel synthetic. The belly pan is a pain to change oil but you get used to it once u get the special tools.

Maintenance- timing belts are not fun.. special tools are needed and better off getting a dealer to do them..pricy. On mine i felt like most things were designed for a dealer to do.

Fuel- most every place has diesel fuel now..but u will be paying more at the pump for the fuel. Yes u get better mileage but in the end u still have to pay more for the fuel.

Starting- mine had glowplugs...so u turn the key to a position then wait for a light to go out then u crank..no big deal.

Its a good fun car for someone that wants a little bit quirky..fun can be had with hypermiling and getting the 50mpg tanks.. it sounds and feels good to put your foot into the turbo and hear it whistle but u will be defeating the purpose.


I am going to pick yours apart because it has a lot of bad info...

It have never took more than 10 miles or 20 mins to get heat in any VW diesel. Something is wrong with yours and you are never supposed to idle ANYTHING mechanical that long to warm up. A TDI never will anyway. Also 2009+ vehicles have a supplemental electric heater as well. You need to drive the car for it to work though.

TDI's have the same power cold as warm slightly more when at operating temp mind you. Something is wrong with your car quite possibly.

Timing belts are not fun on any car let alone a TDI. Special tools are required for almost everything automotive to do the job right. This is not a fault of a TDI or VW.

Yes you need to use a specialty oil but synthetic 5w40 isn't that hard to find anymore. Napa even carrys a lot of the newer diesel oils. You should never run 10w30 only synthetic 5w30 if it meets spec in a newer TDI.

Diesel fuel is synonymous with gasoline everywhere now.

Fuel economy only matters whether you are driving in a cold climate and doing short trips. That is where it will take the biggest hit and you will have to shorted your OCI as a result. I could flog my TDI's all day and the mileage rarely changes from what I would get if I didn't.

The biggest question is whether you do more highway or city driving and how long it is. That will determine whether a TDI is right for you.

It's like any other vehicle besides that.

 

[fdcg27]

The only diesels I've ever owned were a couple of W123 240Ds.
These cars were astoundingly slow but were absolute tanks.
Once you got the car running, it made no difference whether the alternator worked or not, since there was no need for electrics for the engine to run.
The fully mechanical fuel injection, with a Bosch inline pump was trouble free as were the glow plugs.
For a garaged car, cold wether starting is no problem.
It wasn't for the 240Ds and the newer diesels are much better cold weather starters than was the 123.
The only maintenance consisted of frequent oil changes and periodic changes of the two fuel filters.
A late TDI would be an entirely different beast, much faster and far more economical.
A diesel is something neat to own and everyone should try at least one.
VWs do have some reliability and durability problems.
You do have to wonder what a two year old car with but 17K is doing on a used car lot.
Lemon lawed?

 

[rhhsiao]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
I had a 2009 TDI Jetta that i bought brand new. I loved the car but its quirky and hard to get used to. During the winter without block heater...it takes a very long time to warm up.. just idling would probably take 30 minutes to get heat inside the car. Driving takes about the same amount of time to warm up. The TDI has almost no power until its warmed up, test drive one cold to see what i mean.

Oil changes- about the same as a normal car..u need to use special oil 5W40 or 10w30 diesel synthetic. The belly pan is a pain to change oil but you get used to it once u get the special tools.

Maintenance- timing belts are not fun.. special tools are needed and better off getting a dealer to do them..pricy. On mine i felt like most things were designed for a dealer to do.

Fuel- most every place has diesel fuel now..but u will be paying more at the pump for the fuel. Yes u get better mileage but in the end u still have to pay more for the fuel.

Starting- mine had glowplugs...so u turn the key to a position then wait for a light to go out then u crank..no big deal.

Its a good fun car for someone that wants a little bit quirky..fun can be had with hypermiling and getting the 50mpg tanks.. it sounds and feels good to put your foot into the turbo and hear it whistle but u will be defeating the purpose.


I am going to pick yours apart because it has a lot of bad info...

It have never took more than 10 miles or 20 mins to get heat in any VW diesel. Something is wrong with yours and you are never supposed to idle ANYTHING mechanical that long to warm up. A TDI never will anyway. Also 2009+ vehicles have a supplemental electric heater as well. You need to drive the car for it to work though.

TDI's have the same power cold as warm slightly more when at operating temp mind you. Something is wrong with your car quite possibly.

Timing belts are not fun on any car let alone a TDI. Special tools are required for almost everything automotive to do the job right. This is not a fault of a TDI or VW.

Yes you need to use a specialty oil but synthetic 5w40 isn't that hard to find anymore. Napa even carrys a lot of the newer diesel oils. You should never run 10w30 only synthetic 5w30 if it meets spec in a newer TDI.

Diesel fuel is synonymous with gasoline everywhere now.

Fuel economy only matters whether you are driving in a cold climate and doing short trips. That is where it will take the biggest hit and you will have to shorted your OCI as a result. I could flog my TDI's all day and the mileage rarely changes from what I would get if I didn't.

The biggest question is whether you do more highway or city driving and how long it is. That will determine whether a TDI is right for you.

It's like any other vehicle besides that.


Just to piggyback off what you said. All the new TDIs require a 5W-30 low-saps diesel oil certified for VW507. They're easily available online or at Napa, Pep Boys, etc.