06 MINI Cooper S - NAPA Syn5w30 - 10,221 mi

[Bugzii]

A little late in posting this...

Filtration: Air filter is 30k at the time of this sample and oil filter is 10k. Both are made by Wix.

Third UOA for this motor. Unlike the last 2 batches that went 19+ months, this one lasted only six. The motor experienced cold-start every morning and had one mile of surface street before entering the freeway. Overall, driving was about 85/15 (Hwy/City). The high Moly count is from a can of Lubro-Moly Mos2 Anti-Friction additive. Even though cold-starts seemed to be quieter, the UOA doesn't show it had any positive effect compared to the last batch of NAPA Syn. Might stop using it after the current batch.

Comments are welcomed...

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

-First UOA, Mobil 1, 32 months
-Second UOA, NAPA Syn, 20 months

 

[Jimzz]

Why stop using it? Looks ok to me and can be had for $3.50 a Quart on sale. I even used the 10w30 Napa Syn in my Lawn mower and air compressor.

 

[SLATRON]

He's talking about not using the LM moly not the Napa oil.

 

[Bugzii]

Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Why stop using it? Looks ok to me and can be had for $3.50 a Quart on sale. I even used the 10w30 Napa Syn in my Lawn mower and air compressor.


Wasn't clear but Slatron's right... I meant the LM Moly.

I think NAPA Syn has proven itself sufficient for 10k use, considering Blackstone's Universal Average is around 6000 miles for this motor.

 

[Bandito440]

What quantity of LM was added to what quantity of oil in the sump?

 

[Bugzii]

One can of LM Moly is 300mL and sump capacity is 5 quarts with filter.

 

[vinu_neuro]

Does BMW call for an LL-01 oil in Mini engines or any 5W-30.

 

[Bugzii]

Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Does BMW call for an LL-01 oil in Mini engines or any 5W-30.


BMW/MINI does call for LL-01 specs... or the exact words on the bottle "LL-01, ACEA A3/B3, API SM"

The User Manual says, "use oils with specification of API SH or higher".

The LL-01 spec is for extended drains. Problem is... TBN of Mini LL-01 oil can be depleted by or before 15k.

For the 2002-06 generation, the count-down is set at 15k miles. Mini uses on-board algo to figure out when to change the oil.... lower or higher depending on driving patterns. As my driving is mostly Highway, on-board fuzzy logic tells me that 17-18k miles is appropriate. Of course I've never gone that far and tried to stay within 2-3 TBN as buffer.

 

[Pontual]

A full can of MoS2 and the insolubles are just 0.2%? Where it went, crevices, plated?

 

[Bugzii]

Originally Posted By: Pontual
A full can of MoS2 and the insolubles are just 0.2%? Where it went, crevices, plated?


Plated I hope...

I wondered about that myself. When I first put it in, the oil has a dark grey color. As time went on, the grey lessened and the color turned back to more like regular oil. By 7k miles, there was no way I could tell. There is some faint residual I can see on the filter element.

The same has happened to my Prius. In this case I only use 150mL because the sump size is only 3.2 quarts. By 3k, the color of the oil no longer has any hint of grey. Will see what shows up in the UOA when it's sent in.

 

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted By: Bugzii
Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Why stop using it? Looks ok to me and can be had for $3.50 a Quart on sale. I even used the 10w30 Napa Syn in my Lawn mower and air compressor.


Wasn't clear but Slatron's right... I meant the LM Moly.

I think NAPA Syn has proven itself sufficient for 10k use, considering Blackstone's Universal Average is around 6000 miles for this motor.



Ahhh sorry I saw you say last batch of Napa Syn so thought that was what you were referring to.
Good to hear its working well.

 

[vinu_neuro]

Originally Posted By: Bugzii
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Does BMW call for an LL-01 oil in Mini engines or any 5W-30.


BMW/MINI does call for LL-01 specs... or the exact words on the bottle "LL-01, ACEA A3/B3, API SM"

The User Manual says, "use oils with specification of API SH or higher".

The LL-01 spec is for extended drains. Problem is... TBN of Mini LL-01 oil can be depleted by or before 15k.

For the 2002-06 generation, the count-down is set at 15k miles. Mini uses on-board algo to figure out when to change the oil.... lower or higher depending on driving patterns. As my driving is mostly Highway, on-board fuzzy logic tells me that 17-18k miles is appropriate. Of course I've never gone that far and tried to stay within 2-3 TBN as buffer.





LL-01 is more that just extended drain. By not using a spec oil you're losing wear protection, oxidative stability and piston deposit resistance. The wear protection is based on physical and chemical properties that are missing in a non-Euro OEM oil. 3.5 vs 3.0 HTHS, and phosphrous levels are also significantly higher.

The BMW LL-01 oil leaves much to be desired in my experience with my parents' X5's, but there are plenty of good readily available options from M1,Castrol and Pennzoil.

 

[Bugzii]

Technically you're correct but these things... Wear, Oxidation, Deposits - wouldn't these show up on an UOA?

My UOAs were all at 10k, whereas the Universal Average is around 6k.

 

[vinu_neuro]

No, and certainly not a UOA from Blackstone. There is an article on the main page regarding the use of UOA's.

 

[Bugzii]

Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
No, and certainly not a UOA from Blackstone. There is an article on the main page regarding the use of UOA's.


Really? What the heck are we all doing here anyway? Is there a secret sub-directory where there are pictures of naked ladies soaked in the "golden lube of the month" I'm not aware of?

I take "factory-approved oil" as well as "recommended OCI" with a grain of salt. Only a couple of years ago Mini rolled back the OCI to 10k for the 2nd gen (2007-13) and 3rd gen (2014-) because their $8/Qt "high performance, full synthetic" LL-01 oil couldn't handle the excessive fuel dilution and carbon deposit... which were obvious to anyone who had their oils analyzed. UOA doesn't tell us everything about an engine but regular sampling does help set a trend. Metal wear, deposits, contamination, oxidation will be obvious if something is not right with the engine, filtration, etc.

Here's a '03 MCS with over 340k. The owner has used various brands of synthetic through the years and even changed the oil according to the on-board computer. The last few batches he's gone over 20k. His driving is ideal though... long commute and no traffic so he rolls up the miles fast.

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/r50-r53-hatch-talk-2002-2006/206507-oil-analysis-2.html

 

[jayg]

Great OCI with a good priced oil. If it were me, I'd skip the can of moly and just run straight Napa oil and repeat.

Also that guy with 340k on RP 5w30 has a good thing going on.

 

[vintageant]

Thanks!

Wear elements are low and consistent. If it were my engine, I'd keep using that MoS2.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: vintageant
Thanks!

Wear elements are low and consistent. If it were my engine, I'd keep using that MoS2.

+1
IMO the MoS2 is actually benefiting the engine and the UOA results. It is living up to L-M's claims.

 

[Bugzii]

Thanks guys.

 

[montero1]

Originally Posted By: Bugzii
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
No, and certainly not a UOA from Blackstone. There is an article on the main page regarding the use of UOA's.


Really? What the heck are we all doing here anyway? Is there a secret sub-directory where there are pictures of naked ladies soaked in the "golden lube of the month" I'm not aware of?

I take "factory-approved oil" as well as "recommended OCI" with a grain of salt. Only a couple of years ago Mini rolled back the OCI to 10k for the 2nd gen (2007-13) and 3rd gen (2014-) because their $8/Qt "high performance, full synthetic" LL-01 oil couldn't handle the excessive fuel dilution and carbon deposit... which were obvious to anyone who had their oils analyzed. UOA doesn't tell us everything about an engine but regular sampling does help set a trend. Metal wear, deposits, contamination, oxidation will be obvious if something is not right with the engine, filtration, etc.

Here's a '03 MCS with over 340k. The owner has used various brands of synthetic through the years and even changed the oil according to the on-board computer. The last few batches he's gone over 20k. His driving is ideal though... long commute and no traffic so he rolls up the miles fast.

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/r50-r53-hatch-talk-2002-2006/206507-oil-analysis-2.html







I think whats amazing about the guy with 300+K on his Mini,is he's using only 1.5 quarts for 20+k runs. I use .5 qts every 1k....and his is supercharged. This is why I don't harp on using LL-01. When I change the oil, I fill up with whatever synthetic is on sale, and a lot of my top-up oil is dino. I change w/ a new filter every 10k.