Harley Davidson - Formula +

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Dave @ Red line says their 75W90 GL-5 gear oil does not affect yellow metals. Heres what he said in an email.

Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in the shared Sportster primary/transmission the 75W90 is recommended, a product that has been used extensively and performs well.

The 75W90 is the product we have have used for a number of years with very good results in Sportster/Buell transmissions, matching the viscosity and type fluid called for.
The 80W Motorcycle Gear Oil is a lower viscosity than called for, the ShockProof gear oils can due to their unique characteristics could cause sticking of the Harley clutches.
The 75W90 would be preferred and recommended over 80W Motorcycle Gear Oil in these applications.

There can be issues with some GL-5 gear oils in certain applications. Some can be corrosive to brass, bronze or copper, not an issue with our GL-5 gear oils, they don’t cause corrosion, pitting or metal removal. In a synchro equipped transmission the friction modifiers contained in many gear oils can make them too slippery, though not the case in a motorcycle transmission with dog rings.


So if you want the right viscosity and dont want to worry about it damaging anything, go with Redline http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=133&pcid=4
 
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This list may not be updated...

ASTM D-130 ratings fall on a scale going from 1A (least corrosive) to 4C (most corrosive) From a corrosive standpoint, an oil with a 1A or 1B rating is considered safe.

SAFE GL-5 Oils
Amsoil M/T Fluid MTF..5W-30.............. 1A Light Orange
Red Line MT-90.......75W-90 GL4......... 1A Light Orange
Amsoil Long Life FGR 75W-90 GL5......... 1B Dark Orange
Amsoil Severe Gr SVG 75W-90 GL5....... 1B Dark Orange
Amsoil MT & Gear MTG 75W-90 GL4...... 1B Dark Orange
Mobil 1 Synthetic....75W-90 GL5......... 1B Dark Orange
Castrol Hypoy C......80W-90 GL5......... 1B Dark Orange
Castrol SYNTEC.......75W-90 GL5........ 1B Dark Orange
Citgo Citgear Std XD 75W-90 GL4........ 1B Dark Orange
GM Synthetic Axle....75W-90 GL5........ 1B Dark Orange
Pennzoil Gearplus....80W-90 GL5.......... 1B Dark Orange
Pennzoil Synthetic...75W-90 GL5......... 1B Dark Orange
Red Line NS Gear Oil 75W-90 GL5......... 1B Dark Orange
Red Line 75W90 GL-5..75W-90 GL5....... 1B Dark Orange
Torco SGO Syn G LS....75W-90 GL5...... 1B Dark Orange
Valvoline High Perf..80W-90 GL5........... 1B Dark Orange
Valvoline SynPower...75W-90 GL5......... 1B Dark Orange

MARGINAL GL-5 Oils
Delo Gear Lubric ESI 80W-90 GL5.......... 2A Claret Red
Delo Trans Fluid ESI 50W..................... 2A Claret Red

UNSAFE GL-5 Oils
Royal Purple MaxGear 75W-90 GL5......... 4A Trans Black
Mopar Syn LS additive..75W-90 GL5....... 4A Trans Black
Lucas 75/90 Synthetic75W-90 GL5......... 4B Graphite Blk
 
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I admit I may be a lil paranoid and use the Formula+ in my transmission because Harley says to, but I'm using Delo 400 15W-40 truck in my primary now. Current fill in the engine is Castrol 20W-50 motorcycle oil. BTW the transmission shifts nice and smooth like it should with the H-D oil. I do get a clunk sometimes when I shift from N into 1, but that's typical.
 
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You'll never lose the clunk no matter what oil you use. Harleys clunk. Fresh oil and waiting a few seconds after you pull the clutch in to put it in gear will lessen it, but it will never go away.
 
I use M1 75W-90 in the transmission and Rotella 15W-40 in the primary.

Hold the clutch for 15 seconds and blip the trottle and wait 10 more seconds and all you get is a click.

After it's warmed up, cut that time in half.

No clunk
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
You'll never lose the clunk no matter what oil you use. Harleys clunk. Fresh oil and waiting a few seconds after you pull the clutch in to put it in gear will lessen it, but it will never go away.



Really?

My bike didn't get that memo,since with redline shockproof heavy there isn't a clunk anymore.
It wasn't an instant difference though. It took maybe a week but one morning I got out and put it into gear and I noticed it didn't clunk anymore.
Using syn 3,m1 20w-50 v-twin,even royal purple gear oil and Amsoil severe gear....all clunked. Some worse than others.
Severe gear had the least clunk of them though,but once I went redline I never looked back.
That's the whole reason I use redline gear oils exclusively in everything I own that needs gear oil.
It's shearproof,will run extended intervals and in my experience if there are problems this stuff will fix them.
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
You will lose the clunk if you loose the formula. Use any type of Gl-5 rated gear oil in the trans, and you'll be amazed how quiet it gets when you put it in gear.,,




He's right. In my experience with my Harley I found that gear oil lessens the clunk,redline shockproof eliminates it.
Unless my 6 speed is some kind of anomaly.
 
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
Can't use RedLine shock proof in a Sportster transmission. Dave at Redline says it will gum up the clutch. The big twins are OK to use it in.



I can believe it. Mines not a sporty. I've got a street Bob.
It's good to know that redline does have an option for the sportsters though as referenced on page one of this thread.
I'd love to use redline fluids exclusively in everything I own. But 22 bucks a quart vs 25 bucks a jug just doesn't make fiscal sense in my mind.
So I'll have to relegate redline to my dreams,and gear drives,since in those cases I'll spend the extra money.
 
I also use Redline Shockproof in my Harley's transmission. The clunk in mine is less obvious with the Redline, and by pulling in the clutch and waiting a few seconds it lessens it quite a bit when engaging 1st gear. When going through the gears I can hear the clunk as well. My sons 07 CVO RK has the 6 speed and his isn't as loud as my old 5 speed but his 6 speed has the clunk as well. I'm OK with it but it will never shift as smoothly or quietly as the metrics I have owned.
 
when i had an 06 sporty i used amsoil 20-50 changed yearly + never added a drop. i moved up to victory but its still Amsoil 20-50 changed yearly. i thought redline was costly in the USA but i see its brutal elsewhere. Harley is cheap so their contracted oil is also, cheaply made + overpriced + underperforming IMO
 
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Originally Posted By: benjy
when i had an 06 sporty i used amsoil 20-50 changed yearly + never added a drop. i moved up to victory but its still Amsoil 20-50 changed yearly. i thought redline was costly in the USA but i see its brutal elsewhere. Harley is cheap so their contracted oil is also, cheaply made + overpriced + underperforming IMO


There are some UOA's out here with Genuine Harley conventional oil @ 5K OCI's that turn in good numbers.
 
Originally Posted By: shanneba
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Believe it or not this is exactly what I wanted to see, I wish I could find the UOA or VOA from Blackstone.

The info from the VOA was already posted-
Formula+ VOA

Red Line makes a 75w-110 gear oil that is about the same viscosity as the Formula+.
I used Red Line MT-90 in my Sportster primary/trans, seems good so far (about 2000 miles)


Yes, but its 8 years old. But since the time I made this post I have decided to stick with the Formula One for Primary and Trans. No reason to switch, not yet anyway, bike runs great with it and I havent seen a reason/proof from anyone why something is better.
I just see comments based on the "marketing" words of the company they have chosen to use.
Im not against using something different just against switching to something else with no proof of a better product.
I know Harley oil has a good mark up to it but so does a lot of the products selling a lot of hype and no fact. So I might as well stay with the Harley product unless it is far inferior which has never been proven.
and the price .... ? pennies ... over the life of the bike and in relation to the cost of the bike! *L*
 
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If it were only pennies nobody would think twice about it. But the real fact is it's dollars. Dollars spent on a item that works OK, VS one that cost less and gives you a better product. Here's an example, Buy 4 Qts of Harley's HD 360 oil, and 4 qts of Valvoline VR-1 Racing oil, both 20/50 wt. You can send a sample of each off to be analysed, or look up the VOA and several UOA's in the motorcycle oil section to see how they hold up. You will see Harley's oil will work and so will Valvoline's oil. The main difference is the cost. So if your not getting proof Harley's oil does anything better for the added cost, why pay for the name?,,
 
Ah, but we are talking about transmission and primary's with Primary + in this thread. Not Harley engine oil.

I have no issues with the engine oils....conventional 360 20/50 Harley oil, VR1 and Amsoil in the engine, the VR1 turns in some GREAT UOAs as well as the Amsoil and darn close with the conventional Harley 360 almost splitting hairs with the previous two. I'm using the Harley 360 in the engine as the bike is new and only on its first oil change, in time, maybe years I very well may try the VR1 ... But first will see how the UOAs go on the 360 as some previous posts, one with 8 oil changes/UOAs show darn close wear numbers with the conventional Harley 360 to the Amsoil, again in the engine. Other UOAs also show some fantastic VR1 results. I prefer conventional right now on the bike as I change oil every 3000 miles or so, sometimes less. Depends on how much riding I do but 2 times a year is the minimum I change my oil.

There is proof for these oils but no proof on the Primary + is inferior to more expensive or the same price, gear/transmission/primary oils.
 
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I found this online as it refers to this site. As you can see it's nothing to get excited about. Here's a link to H-D Formula Virgin Oil Analysis: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=926039#Post926039 And here's what the site said.



Harley Davidson FORMULA+ Trans and Primary Chaincase VOA

(Mini VOA via Amsoil)

Petroleum based.

Ca 169
P 230
B 210
S - some
Zn - essentially none
No other elemental additives.

Vis. within SAE 50 range.

Listed as a GL-1, does test out as a GL-3.

Harley owners may be better served by using a lube that meets GL-4 requirements and has more P and Zn, and a basestock resistant to shear.
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
I found this online as it refers to this site. As you can see it's nothing to get excited about. Here's a link to H-D Formula Virgin Oil Analysis: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=926039#Post926039 And here's what the site said.
.....

Listed as a GL-1, does test out as a GL-3.

Harley owners may be better served by using a lube that meets GL-4 requirements and has more P and Zn, and a basestock resistant to shear.


Ah yes, agreed, nothing to get excited about in the VOA but its transmission oil not engine oil, even though the VOA is EIGHT years old chances are it is the same formula, maybe, but again, no proof that another transmission or engine oil is any better in a manual transmission because no wear tests are done on it.
Also contrary GL4/5 gear lubes are not normally used not used in transmissions and just like automobiles you will never see a recommendation to put a GL4 or 5 gear lube in a manual transmission. Although the GL4/5 are much safer now, they are known to attack yellow metals in the transmission, GL4/5 is normally in differentials. Though for some reason people go out and put in in manual transmissions thinking its better but its not. Your better off with plain engine oil.
 
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