2010 VW TDI w/DPF Delete - alternative to 507

[slipstream444]

I'm looking to move away from the relatively weak 507 spec oil now that my car no longer has a DPF, the EGR valves are bypassed/removed, and the cat was also removed (Rawtek downpipe+midpipe, Malone tune). I understand the 507 spec is designed to protect emissions components and handle extra fuel dilution (although dilution is much less of a concern due to the fact my car no longer goes into a re-gen cycle), leaving wear prevention being my prime consideration.

I'm considering some of the Delvac offerings as well as Amsoil Series 3000 Diesel 5W30 as a replacement, but would appreciate some insight on choosing a much more robust oil and what other considerations need to be met when choosing an alternative oil. Once again - emission control components are no longer a concern and I'm just looking to switch to an oil that will prevent wear and protect any other engine related components serviced by the oil.

Here is a little history with this car:

I used the Castrol OEM (SLX Pro, which is now in the Edge line of oil) throughout the warranty period and changed oil every 5000-7500 miles. I switched to Amsoil's Euro low SAPS 507 oil at about 38,000 miles. Unfortunately, the turbo died at 70,000 miles. I returned to the Castrol OEM oil after the turbo was replaced, and the car went through it's second DPF shortly thereafter. VW actually covered all the parts with respect to the turbo failure (I paid labor) and they replaced both DPFs under warranty. Ultimately I chose to take the shiny new replaced DPF and put it on a shelf and install the delete kit. The small DPFs (fuel cleaned) used on these CR diesels have been problematic - and the warranty on the DPF runs out at 100K miles.

 

[Darwin1138]

Are you inducing any over boost with your Malone tune, and if yes how much? If you are increasing anything over 10 % the torque at less than 2000 rpm you probably would need to increase the viscosity to a SAE 5W-50 or an HTHS of 4.0 as far as quality goes anything with an ACEA E7 rating will be fine.

 

[slipstream444]

There is an increase in torque below 2000 RPM - greater than 10%. There is no increase over stock until just below 1800 RPM, and then the torque rises rapidly. Peak torque is 390 lb ft, at the flywheel (approximately 330 at the wheels) where stock was 240 at the FW.

My concerns are in regard to oil flow when I go with a higher viscosity oil - especially when the temps are cold. The only other consideration I need to ensure is covered is with regard to the CR pump's cam follower wear.

 

[vinu_neuro]

You're not going to do better than a Delvac1 or Rotella T6 product.

 

[toneydoc]

Rotella T6 5w40 at Walmart for 21.74 per gallon.
Made to work in diesel engines. Good additive package and proven for many miles in diesel motors.
Good price at wally world.
Or you could consider some of the Mobil 1 turbo products. Maybe a little more pricey but hard to beat the Mobil 1 stuff.

 

[Cujet]

I'll add a recommendation for my favorite turbo oil. Mobil 1, 5W-40 TDT. It still has sufficient ZDDP and is an excellent oil. HTHS is about 3.8 by memory.

However, more interestingly, TDT still produces lower wear metals than all commonly available oils.

 

[drolds]

Slipstream, It sounds as if you know your topics. Since you have removed the DPF, you can potentially run any decent diesel oil. Hopefully, you will see greater longevity for the major components (turbo; inj. pump; engine, etc.). I don't know if your engine had problems specifically due to the DPF and EGR or if there are weaknesses in your particular engine. I would not blame either the Castrol SLX nor the Amsoil 507 VW-spec oil. However, with DPF & EGR now a non-issue, I would definitely look at pre- emissions oils with a better additive package (greater ppm of ZDDP).
While I have pondered acquiring a diesel vehicle of my own, I have thought about oils. The Amsoil HDD 5W-30 is an extremely robust synthetic diesel oil not suitable for DPFs due to higher ZDDP. Even when used in place of a 15W-40, it does not seem to thin out much all and consistently returns quite good UOA reports. In your particular case, the oil analysis on this oil and maybe another one or two will interest many of us. Maybe you could do one close to the 10,000 mi. change interval and post it. I have one customer of mine who is now using the Amsoil 507 oil in a 2012 Jetta clean diesel; no problems so far at 52,000 mi. If he ever has issues with the car beyond the warranty period, the results of your mods to your 2010 VW may be very interesting. Also, we all want to know what kind of fuel economy results from your car's upgrades.
Dr. Olds

 

[Darwin1138]

Originally Posted By: slipstream444
There is an increase in torque below 2000 RPM - greater than 10%. There is no increase over stock until just below 1800 RPM, and then the torque rises rapidly. Peak torque is 390 lb ft, at the flywheel (approximately 330 at the wheels) where stock was 240 at the FW.

My concerns are in regard to oil flow when I go with a higher viscosity oil - especially when the temps are cold. The only other consideration I need to ensure is covered is with regard to the CR pump's cam follower wear.

You didn't mention what engine you have, I first assumed that it was the 1.6 because is the one that I am familiar with, but now I think that you have a 2.0. Anyway, it is good that there is no change below 1800 rpm and I suppose that that speed is fine with that engine, so you could run an oil with an HTHS of 3.5, I would just suggest a couple of early UOA to look for bearing material.

And for oils, the most restrictive spec that I now of cam and cylinder wear is the MB 228.5 & 228.51. Delvac 1 5W-30 is really good but it complies with the MB spec 228.51 that puts limits to sulphur, phosphorous and chlorine to protect DPFs. The spec 228.5 doesn't put any of those limits and establishes a minimum TBN of 12 and sulphated ash between 1.0 and 2.0, so that could be a good option for you.

This is the official list of MB 228.5 approved oils (page 4), take a look to see if there is anything that you could easily find on your location.

And those torque figures are really awesome.

 

[Olas]

In Europe we use 505.01 for pre-emissions stuff and 504/507 for emissions equipped vehicles. Yours is PD, right? Redline 5w30

 

[riggaz]

Have you told us what engine it is yet?

 

[Olas]

Best guess is a 2.0 16v tdi, either 140 or 170 bhp.

The new generation of PD motors..

 

[riggaz]

The new generation are common rail now, which at 2010 he might have.

 

[Darwin1138]

Originally Posted By: slipstream444
The only other consideration I need to ensure is covered is with regard to the CR pump's cam follower wear.


I think that by CR he means common rail, although I think that the pump failures are related only to PD engines, and that is the reason to only use 505.01.

 

[radoroc]

Originally Posted By: slipstream444
There is an increase in torque below 2000 RPM - greater than 10%. There is no increase over stock until just below 1800 RPM, and then the torque rises rapidly. Peak torque is 390 lb ft, at the flywheel (approximately 330 at the wheels) where stock was 240 at the FW.

My concerns are in regard to oil flow when I go with a higher viscosity oil - especially when the temps are cold. The only other consideration I need to ensure is covered is with regard to the CR pump's cam follower wear.


I just wanted to point out that VW rates the hp and tq at the crank, not the wheels. Stock is rated at 140hp/236lb-ft at the crank. Malone stage 2 is rated at 184hp/333lb-ft at the crank, and 164hp/295lb-ft at the wheels.

 

[Bang]

I run Redline 0w40 in a similarly setup (Rawtek + Malone Stage 2) 2013 Passat TDI (Engine code CKRA). More than a year and 30k+ miles since the Mod and nothing unusual to report. The UOA on the first change after the Mod was typical. I have not done a UOA since but I'm planning to on the next change in a few weeks.

 

[rhhsiao]

Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 TDT.

 

[iamatt]

What about Amsoil AMO or HDD in the CR 2.0 CJAA with dpf and egr removed? Thanks!

 

[dsldub]

Originally Posted By: Darwin1138

You didn't mention what engine you have, I first assumed that it was the 1.6 because is the one that I am familiar with, but now I think that you have a 2.0.


North American Clean Diesel including Canada are only available in 2.0 Common Rail rated @ 140 hp

 

[maintenanceMan]

I have a mercedes om642 with no egr/dpf. I've tried several different oils. The one it seems to like best is mobil one euro ow40. It gets substantially better fuel economy than the t6. After removal, it's been brilliant to see my oil still clean appearing on the dipstick in between intervals.

 

[whizbyu]

Is this a Touareg? I have a Q7 TDI that had a HPFP failure replaced under warranty.
Where did you get the DPF delete kit?