OVERKILL
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That's from the new MSDS for M1 0w-40 in Germany, dated November 21st, 2014. It shows 50-60% PAO now.
M1 0w-40 is synthetic in Germany again.....
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That's from the new MSDS for M1 0w-40 in Germany, dated November 21st, 2014. It shows 50-60% PAO now.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: aa1986
Is that definitely for "New Life 0w40" and not "ESP 0w40"?
Yes. I checked the MSDS for the Turbo Diesel oil (same as the New Life) and it showed the same information.
Is that definitely for "New Life 0w40" and not "ESP 0w40"?
Yes. I checked the MSDS for the Turbo Diesel oil (same as the New Life) and it showed the same information.
OVERKILL
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Excellent. That means it has had that percentage since at least January in Germany then. The USA MSDS doesn't show that information on it.
Esso XD-3 was the 1st 0W40 I tried. It was an "old school" CH-4 with 1.5 ash and 12.5 TBN.
At fist the only place I could find that oil was at the commercial bulk dealers.
We lost our Esso branded products, now everything is Mobil.
My commercial card lock is Esso and it would be nice to
eliminate one account by purchasing all my lubricants there.
Obviously I'm not looking for a 12.5 TBN high ash oil anymore.
What is the Mobil CJ-4/SM replacement for the old Esso XD-3 0W40?
At fist the only place I could find that oil was at the commercial bulk dealers.
We lost our Esso branded products, now everything is Mobil.
My commercial card lock is Esso and it would be nice to
eliminate one account by purchasing all my lubricants there.
Obviously I'm not looking for a 12.5 TBN high ash oil anymore.
What is the Mobil CJ-4/SM replacement for the old Esso XD-3 0W40?
So let's say there's 60% PAO, what about the rest of it? Let's be generous and say 15% additive package and 10% VII (both are over-estimates). That still leaves at least 15% unaccounted for. Add to that, all Mobil 1 0W-40 oils on the mobiloils.de website are described as "Mobil SHC Synthese Technology™".
I'm going with a Group III/IV mix.
I'm going with a Group III/IV mix.
Originally Posted By: weasley
So let's say there's 60% PAO, what about the rest of it? Let's be generous and say 15% additive package and 10% VII (both are over-estimates). That still leaves at least 15% unaccounted for. Add to that, all Mobil 1 0W-40 oils on the mobiloils.de website are described as "Mobil SHC Synthese Technology™".
I'm going with a Group III/IV mix.
Ha think?
I think it's that magical elixir called visom.
So let's say there's 60% PAO, what about the rest of it? Let's be generous and say 15% additive package and 10% VII (both are over-estimates). That still leaves at least 15% unaccounted for. Add to that, all Mobil 1 0W-40 oils on the mobiloils.de website are described as "Mobil SHC Synthese Technology™".
I'm going with a Group III/IV mix.
Ha think?
I think it's that magical elixir called visom.
What pour point is that new MSDS indicating?
Originally Posted By: tig1
He said Mobil only has one 0-40.
Well, that's not true because in Europe they also have 0w-40 ESP.
He said Mobil only has one 0-40.
Well, that's not true because in Europe they also have 0w-40 ESP.
I don't know if you remember but last year i posted seeing Mobil 1 0w40 on German shelves with "Full Synthetic" on the label again.
The thoughts at the time were it was probably NOS, now i don't know. If most of the remaining % is ester and add pack then it certainly legally qualifies as full synthetic.
A great oil in any case but not as good as the German Castrol 0w40 when it was formulated with VISOM which brings up another point.
Notice the German produced Castrol 0w40 pour point -60f and includes titanium. This sounds like the top of the line product sold as edge in Germany and is very expensive.
Could it be that when Castrol lost out to Shell on the OEM contract they didn't want to slow production of their full synthetic plant and just diverted it to the US market?
I might be wrong but IIRC the plant that produces Castrol synthetics is near Ingolstadt and had a lot of investment put in that plant less than 10 years ago.
It only makes sense Mobil would go back to synthetic for the 0w40, they were the only major lube producer in Germany without a full synthetic labeled flagship product.
They played the German consumer for stupid with their SHC labeling but the German consumer is no fool, they caught onto this wording game in no time.
They might not be oil savvy but they do know the best oils have Full Synthetic or Voll Synthese on the label, if it doesn't its nothing more than dino or a dino blend.
The thoughts at the time were it was probably NOS, now i don't know. If most of the remaining % is ester and add pack then it certainly legally qualifies as full synthetic.
A great oil in any case but not as good as the German Castrol 0w40 when it was formulated with VISOM which brings up another point.
Notice the German produced Castrol 0w40 pour point -60f and includes titanium. This sounds like the top of the line product sold as edge in Germany and is very expensive.
Could it be that when Castrol lost out to Shell on the OEM contract they didn't want to slow production of their full synthetic plant and just diverted it to the US market?
I might be wrong but IIRC the plant that produces Castrol synthetics is near Ingolstadt and had a lot of investment put in that plant less than 10 years ago.
It only makes sense Mobil would go back to synthetic for the 0w40, they were the only major lube producer in Germany without a full synthetic labeled flagship product.
They played the German consumer for stupid with their SHC labeling but the German consumer is no fool, they caught onto this wording game in no time.
They might not be oil savvy but they do know the best oils have Full Synthetic or Voll Synthese on the label, if it doesn't its nothing more than dino or a dino blend.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: weasley
So let's say there's 60% PAO, what about the rest of it? Let's be generous and say 15% additive package and 10% VII (both are over-estimates). That still leaves at least 15% unaccounted for. Add to that, all Mobil 1 0W-40 oils on the mobiloils.de website are described as "Mobil SHC Synthese Technology™".
I'm going with a Group III/IV mix.
The percentage of PAO still makes it a "full synthetic" by the German definition. The rest of it not taken up by VII and the additive package is probably a blend of AN's, Esters, some Group III (VISOM) and perhaps some other base stocks for additive solubility.
They are all "mixes". They have to be. The thing was that this oil was NOT majority PAO for some time. VISOM replaced PAO as the dominant base oil. This appears to have now changed.
So let's say there's 60% PAO, what about the rest of it? Let's be generous and say 15% additive package and 10% VII (both are over-estimates). That still leaves at least 15% unaccounted for. Add to that, all Mobil 1 0W-40 oils on the mobiloils.de website are described as "Mobil SHC Synthese Technology™".
I'm going with a Group III/IV mix.
The percentage of PAO still makes it a "full synthetic" by the German definition. The rest of it not taken up by VII and the additive package is probably a blend of AN's, Esters, some Group III (VISOM) and perhaps some other base stocks for additive solubility.
They are all "mixes". They have to be. The thing was that this oil was NOT majority PAO for some time. VISOM replaced PAO as the dominant base oil. This appears to have now changed.
I would say based on numbers that it is same stuff like in the U.S.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I don't know if you remember but last year i posted seeing Mobil 1 0w40 on German shelves with "Full Synthetic" on the label again.
The thoughts at the time were it was probably NOS, now i don't know. If most of the remaining % is ester and add pack then it certainly legally qualifies as full synthetic.
A great oil in any case but not as good as the German Castrol 0w40 when it was formulated with VISOM which brings up another point.
Notice the German produced Castrol 0w40 pour point -60f and includes titanium. This sounds like the top of the line product sold as edge in Germany and is very expensive.
Could it be that when Castrol lost out to Shell on the OEM contract they didn't want to slow production of their full synthetic plant and just diverted it to the US market?
I might be wrong but IIRC the plant that produces Castrol synthetics is near Ingolstadt and had a lot of investment put in that plant less than 10 years ago.
It only makes sense Mobil would go back to synthetic for the 0w40, they were the only major lube producer in Germany without a full synthetic labeled flagship product.
They played the German consumer for stupid with their SHC labeling but the German consumer is no fool, they caught onto this wording game in no time.
They might not be oil savvy but they do know the best oils have Full Synthetic or Voll Synthese on the label, if it doesn't its nothing more than dino or a dino blend.
Interesting.
So you'd consider the Edge 0w40 in the US as better than M1 0w40? Its the same product as the German Voll Synthetic whereas we don't know which base oil the US M1 0w40 uses.
And can you explain more about Castrol with Visom? I thought Visom was exclusive to Mobil and not a true synthetic. How would Castrol get Visom and be even better than full syn M1 or Edge or even M1 with Visom?
I don't know if you remember but last year i posted seeing Mobil 1 0w40 on German shelves with "Full Synthetic" on the label again.
The thoughts at the time were it was probably NOS, now i don't know. If most of the remaining % is ester and add pack then it certainly legally qualifies as full synthetic.
A great oil in any case but not as good as the German Castrol 0w40 when it was formulated with VISOM which brings up another point.
Notice the German produced Castrol 0w40 pour point -60f and includes titanium. This sounds like the top of the line product sold as edge in Germany and is very expensive.
Could it be that when Castrol lost out to Shell on the OEM contract they didn't want to slow production of their full synthetic plant and just diverted it to the US market?
I might be wrong but IIRC the plant that produces Castrol synthetics is near Ingolstadt and had a lot of investment put in that plant less than 10 years ago.
It only makes sense Mobil would go back to synthetic for the 0w40, they were the only major lube producer in Germany without a full synthetic labeled flagship product.
They played the German consumer for stupid with their SHC labeling but the German consumer is no fool, they caught onto this wording game in no time.
They might not be oil savvy but they do know the best oils have Full Synthetic or Voll Synthese on the label, if it doesn't its nothing more than dino or a dino blend.
Interesting.
So you'd consider the Edge 0w40 in the US as better than M1 0w40? Its the same product as the German Voll Synthetic whereas we don't know which base oil the US M1 0w40 uses.
And can you explain more about Castrol with Visom? I thought Visom was exclusive to Mobil and not a true synthetic. How would Castrol get Visom and be even better than full syn M1 or Edge or even M1 with Visom?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Trav was saying that the Castrol 0w-40 was a better product than the VISOM version of M1 0w-40 in his opinion.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: aa1986
So what's better on US shelves now?
Probably just depends on your preference. I like Mobil better than Castrol, so for me the M1 0w-40 is a no-brainer. For somebody who doesn't like XOM though, perhaps they'd prefer the Castrol product
So what's better on US shelves now?
Probably just depends on your preference. I like Mobil better than Castrol, so for me the M1 0w-40 is a no-brainer. For somebody who doesn't like XOM though, perhaps they'd prefer the Castrol product
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