0W-20 on cars calling for a 30 weight oil.

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: Shark
The new 5.0's call for 5w20 but if you have the track pack then 5w50! Same [censored] engine.


Interesting. That's quite a big difference.

The track pack does have a different differential, but it appears the engines are the same, unless there are differences Ford doesn't advertise.


People ask more why the 50 weight oil was specified more than the 20 on that one. Turns out Ford Motorcaft's 5W-50 is not very good at remaining a 50. And track use was intended to be severe, a la a thrashing.

Ford GT said 5W-50 as well. Would these engines be better served on lighter oil?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: Shark
The new 5.0's call for 5w20 but if you have the track pack then 5w50! Same [censored] engine.


Interesting. That's quite a big difference.

The track pack does have a different differential, but it appears the engines are the same, unless there are differences Ford doesn't advertise.


People ask more why the 50 weight oil was specified more than the 20 on that one. Turns out Ford Motorcaft's 5W-50 is not very good at remaining a 50. And track use was intended to be severe, a la a thrashing.

Ford GT said 5W-50 as well. Would these engines be better served on lighter oil?



The standard 5.0 in the mustang gt and the 5.0 with the track pack aren't the same. One has piston squirters,one doesn't. Tuning is significantly different and let's face it ford is compensating for elevated oil temps with the track pack cars. The track pack cars also have less engine management nannies lowering power once an overheat is sensed.
Use what ford tells you to use. Simple. I'm part of many mustang forums and they aren't dissolving using what Ford says to use.
In fact if I was tracking a non track pack mustang I'd be running thicker oil to compensate for the elevated oil temps.
Oil is a compromise so consider operating environment,how the engine is operated and oil change interval.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy


The standard 5.0 in the mustang gt and the 5.0 with the track pack aren't the same. One has piston squirters,one doesn't. Tuning is significantly different and let's face it ford is compensating for elevated oil temps with the track pack cars. The track pack cars also have less engine management nannies lowering power once an overheat is sensed.
Use what ford tells you to use. Simple. I'm part of many mustang forums and they aren't dissolving using what Ford says to use.
In fact if I was tracking a non track pack mustang I'd be running thicker oil to compensate for the elevated oil temps.
Oil is a compromise so consider operating environment,how the engine is operated and oil change interval.


That is incorrect. The engines are identical and make the same power, I replied to you already about that in another thread BTW. The BOSS 302 had the squirters deleted, the standard GT had them. Then they were deleted from the standard GT later on, for the 2013MY IIRC.

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2014/trim/gt//viewall/

Originally Posted By: Ford

The GT Track Pack includes:

TORSEN® helical differential with 3.73:1 axle ratio

Upgraded Boss® 302 radiator
High-performance Brembo ™ friction material upgrade (unique corner modules)
Upgraded front and rear brakes (with unique caliper finish) and booster
Unique front corner modules
19 x9.0 premium painted (dark stainless) aluminum wheels and 255/40R19 Z-rated summer-only tire
Tire mobility kit (HJBAB)
Unique ESC module tuning


There is nothing different about the engine and given the package is a little over 2 grand, expecting it to have a major mechanical difference like piston squirters, which would require a differently assembled engine, doesn't make sense.

 

[Nate1979]

Doesn't the track pack include an oil cooler?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Doesn't the track pack include an oil cooler?



I don't remember off hand. I thought it did when first released but I'm not exactly sure as of right now.


Many is like to apologize to everyone. Apparently the piston squirters are gone in relation to both variants of the 5.0.
I don't post inaccurately on purpose and do appreciate when someone informs me I'm mistaken so as of 2012 the engines are mechanically the same thing.

Sorry for posting inaccurately gents. I'm less current than I thought I was so in the future I'll check twice before posting once.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Doesn't the track pack include an oil cooler?


Yes, a coolant-oil heat exchanger. Member bdcardinal posted a link to it in one of the threads about his car.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Clevy


The standard 5.0 in the mustang gt and the 5.0 with the track pack aren't the same. One has piston squirters,one doesn't. Tuning is significantly different and let's face it ford is compensating for elevated oil temps with the track pack cars. The track pack cars also have less engine management nannies lowering power once an overheat is sensed.
Use what ford tells you to use. Simple. I'm part of many mustang forums and they aren't dissolving using what Ford says to use.
In fact if I was tracking a non track pack mustang I'd be running thicker oil to compensate for the elevated oil temps.
Oil is a compromise so consider operating environment,how the engine is operated and oil change interval.


That is incorrect. The engines are identical and make the same power, I replied to you already about that in another thread BTW. The BOSS 302 had the squirters deleted, the standard GT had them. Then they were deleted from the standard GT later on, for the 2013MY IIRC.

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2014/trim/gt//viewall/

Originally Posted By: Ford

The GT Track Pack includes:

TORSEN® helical differential with 3.73:1 axle ratio

Upgraded Boss® 302 radiator
High-performance Brembo ™ friction material upgrade (unique corner modules)
Upgraded front and rear brakes (with unique caliper finish) and booster
Unique front corner modules
19 x9.0 premium painted (dark stainless) aluminum wheels and 255/40R19 Z-rated summer-only tire
Tire mobility kit (HJBAB)
Unique ESC module tuning


There is nothing different about the engine and given the package is a little over 2 grand, expecting it to have a major mechanical difference like piston squirters, which would require a differently assembled engine, doesn't make sense.




Sorry overkill. I didn't see your post in the thread you corrected me in. If I had I wouldn't have posted it again.

Again gents I apologize for not checking my facts. In the future I'll will be sure to confirm my thoughts prior to posting them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Hey, no problem Clevy, the upgrades you spoke of were present on the BOSS 302. I figured you probably just got them confused.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Doesn't the track pack include an oil cooler?


Yes, a coolant-oil heat exchanger. Member bdcardinal posted a link to it in one of the threads about his car.



So it works both ways then? Heats the oil with warm coolant until the oil temp exceeds coolant,then cools it.

I much prefer that type to just oil to air. It keeps oil temps much more consistent. From what I understand the generation Chevys I've got have that type of oil cooler on all towing option equipped trucks and to paraphrase Steve here he mentioned that he thinks it's a part of why the first gen LS engines are so durable.
My Harley has oil to air oil cooler and it cools the oil significantly when at highway speeds. From 250f to 190f at 70mph,which is enough that it affects the oil pumps operation.

 

[OVERKILL]

Exactly right! And the same type that is on my M5

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Hey, no problem Clevy, the upgrades you spoke of were present on the BOSS 302. I figured you probably just got them confused.



I knew they were on the boss 302 however I thought the track pack cars were the same mechanically as the boss,just slightly detuned.
However had I given it some real thought it should have been clear they weren't the same. Piston squirters require some changes in the bottom end,so on that point alone it requires modified parts,which is then obvious that they can't be the same.
Anyways I'm clear now. I'm glad we have members here who are interested enough in what we post here that they will take the time to insure that we stay as factual as possible.
I'm also glad that members here can help teach and correct guys like me when incorrect and do it in a manner that is complimentary and not rude or disrespectful.
There are reasons why members here are respected,and it's their actions no matter what the situation is why they are so respected.
Men can say volumes about themselves even when only a few words are exchanged.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: Shark
The new 5.0's call for 5w20 but if you have the track pack then 5w50! Same [censored] engine.


Interesting. That's quite a big difference.

The track pack does have a different differential, but it appears the engines are the same, unless there are differences Ford doesn't advertise.


People ask more why the 50 weight oil was specified more than the 20 on that one. Turns out Ford Motorcaft's 5W-50 is not very good at remaining a 50. And track use was intended to be severe, a la a thrashing.

Ford GT said 5W-50 as well. Would these engines be better served on lighter oil?



The standard 5.0 in the mustang gt and the 5.0 with the track pack aren't the same. One has piston squirters,one doesn't. Tuning is significantly different and let's face it ford is compensating for elevated oil temps with the track pack cars. The track pack cars also have less engine management nannies lowering power once an overheat is sensed.
Use what ford tells you to use. Simple. I'm part of many mustang forums and they aren't dissolving using what Ford says to use.
In fact if I was tracking a non track pack mustang I'd be running thicker oil to compensate for the elevated oil temps.
Oil is a compromise so consider operating environment,how the engine is operated and oil change interval.


Just for clarity to the correction, the 2011-12 5.0 had the oil squirters and Ford removed them starting in 2013. But the Boss 5.0 never had them.

The Boss 5.0 differences are:

Intake manifold
Heads
Exhaust cams
Valves
Valve springs
Pistons
Connecting rod material
Crank bearing material
No oil squirters
Oil cooler
Flywheel
Dampers
Springs
Swaybars
Differential

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne

People ask more why the 50 weight oil was specified more than the 20 on that one. Turns out Ford Motorcaft's 5W-50 is not very good at remaining a 50. And track use was intended to be severe, a la a thrashing.

Ford GT said 5W-50 as well. Would these engines be better served on lighter oil?


Putting on my guessing hat and using it to throw ideas out.

One coud surmise that Ford seem to be happy with the 5W part of their oil recommendations, as they haven't gone down the 0W20 path on their regular 5W20 recommendation...they seem to think 5W will get the job done.

As to the 50 ?

Probably to do with the HTHS that they want after being in service.

5W40 would probably have fitted their bill fine, however consumers are going to find a "racing oil" in 5W50 a lot easier than they are in 5W40 (which is typically motorbike or diesel oil).50

Not saying that they intend the oil to go out of grade "as it's poured out of the bottle", but it probably doesn't need to reamin a 50 in either road or track applications.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: nickolas84
In my case (Opel Corsa C MY2004) it is officially OK to run Dexos 1 0W-20 in Israel, but most of Europe is limited to Dexos 2 that only goes down to 0W-30.
This could be for real reasons or marketing stuff (there is no Dexos 1 in Greece).

I am looking for experiences, not opinions. So far I have not found a single case of engine damage due to using a 0W-20 oil on a 30 weight designed engine. Are there any reports of engine damage?


I infer from your comments the OEMs experience is not good enough for you ? You acknowledge in the opening post it's unwise to depart from the OEMs recommendation.

The OEMs recommendation is not an opinion.

Some threads here spin me out such as this one

.

The engine is designed for 0w-30. Each to their own.

 

[Al]

I did a 5W-20 oil change years ago in my 01 Nissan Sentra SR20DE engine which called for 5W-30. I saw no difference in MPG. Unfortunately I didn't do a UOA.

I see no point in going to a 20 wt oil in an engine calling for 30 wt. oil. No upside here.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Al
I did a 5W-20 oil change years ago in my 01 Nissan Sentra SR20DE engine which called for 5W-30. I saw no difference in MPG. Unfortunately I didn't do a UOA.

I see no point in going to a 20 wt oil in an engine calling for 30 wt. oil. No upside here.


I respectfully disagree! Using as light an oil as possible usually lets the engine rev more freely, less internal resistance, etc! Especially on small engines, as in my Honda. You had a 2.0L the Honda was a 1.6L. Both four-bangers. Yours faster, no doubt...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: Al
I did a 5W-20 oil change years ago in my 01 Nissan Sentra SR20DE engine which called for 5W-30. I saw no difference in MPG. Unfortunately I didn't do a UOA.

I see no point in going to a 20 wt oil in an engine calling for 30 wt. oil. No upside here.


I respectfully disagree! Using as light an oil as possible usually lets the engine rev more freely, less internal resistance, etc! Especially on small engines, as in my Honda. You had a 2.0L the Honda was a 1.6L. Both four-bangers. Yours faster, no doubt...


Motorcycle engines rev pretty bloody freely.....

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: Al
I did a 5W-20 oil change years ago in my 01 Nissan Sentra SR20DE engine which called for 5W-30. I saw no difference in MPG. Unfortunately I didn't do a UOA.

I see no point in going to a 20 wt oil in an engine calling for 30 wt. oil. No upside here.


I respectfully disagree! Using as light an oil as possible usually lets the engine rev more freely, less internal resistance, etc! Especially on small engines, as in my Honda. You had a 2.0L the Honda was a 1.6L. Both four-bangers. Yours faster, no doubt...


Big claims call for big proof.

Pick 5 main bearings and 10 cam bearings of any size that you consider reasonable, and demonstrate how much extra power is liberated by them running an HTHS100 oil of 5cst versus 7cst.

That's representative of the power available to "rev more freely".

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: Al
I did a 5W-20 oil change years ago in my 01 Nissan Sentra SR20DE engine which called for 5W-30. I saw no difference in MPG. Unfortunately I didn't do a UOA.

I see no point in going to a 20 wt oil in an engine calling for 30 wt. oil. No upside here.


I respectfully disagree! Using as light an oil as possible usually lets the engine rev more freely, less internal resistance, etc! Especially on small engines, as in my Honda. You had a 2.0L the Honda was a 1.6L. Both four-bangers. Yours faster, no doubt...


Motorcycle engines rev pretty bloody freely.....
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
Originally Posted By: Al
I did a 5W-20 oil change years ago in my 01 Nissan Sentra SR20DE engine which called for 5W-30. I saw no difference in MPG. Unfortunately I didn't do a UOA.

I see no point in going to a 20 wt oil in an engine calling for 30 wt. oil. No upside here.


I respectfully disagree! Using as light an oil as possible usually lets the engine rev more freely, less internal resistance, etc! Especially on small engines, as in my Honda. You had a 2.0L the Honda was a 1.6L. Both four-bangers. Yours faster, no doubt...


Big claims call for big proof.

Pick 5 main bearings and 10 cam bearings of any size that you consider reasonable, and demonstrate how much extra power is liberated by them running an HTHS100 oil of 5cst versus 7cst.

That's representative of the power available to "rev more freely".


Alright! I reference the butt dyno here.

 

[Mazda3LA]

My wife's car is a 2013 nissan altima that calls for 0w20 but 5w30 can also be used if 0w20 is not available. I have used both grades and have not seen any difference. I use 5w30 conventional because my wife only drives the car around 5000 miles every six months. Not worth purchasing synthetic if it's going to be used for 5000 miles.