PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives

Originally Posted By: Rosetta
"Most amine compounds are made by the reaction of some form of ammonia, NH3, with other chemicals."

Witch other chemicals would be?


Too long a list to post here.

One can always consult an Organic Chemistry book and see some of the other compounds.

One could always start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amine
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
Mola,

Your valuable contribution to this BITOG community is highly appreciated as always.

Q.



I couldn't agree more.

Thanks Molekule
 
No, just look for most epoxy (like Araldite) glue, the hardener part is mostly PEA. Jeffamine D400 (Huntsman) or Baxxodur EC302 (BASF), they're pure PEA.
 
Originally Posted By: Rosetta
No, just look for most epoxy (like Araldite) glue, the hardener part is mostly PEA. Jeffamine D400 (Huntsman) or Baxxodur EC302 (BASF), they're pure PEA.


The current topic and the one that is the focus of this discussion
is PEA and Amine-based Fuel System Additives.

We're not discussing adhesives, curing agents, or cutting fluids or any other off-topic compound.
 
I'm sorry, I thought I was discussing some PEA also, where it is also found.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
............This is what I've always believed and is the reason I run a PEA FSC near the end of my OCI. I also believe it is better to run it during short trip driving (several stop and starts to allow the PEA to 'soak in' to the valves etc...) rather than on a long highway drive. It seems like a long highway drive is a good thing subsequent to the FSC treatment (to blow out the previously softened carbon)................


I used to believe the same thing. However, Gumout recently posted a Q&A as part of the introduction of their new "multi-system fuel additive." In that Q&A they said that it was better to use the product during a long drive rather than several shorter trips. They went on to say that the performance of the product was dependent upon combustion chamber temperature and that a sustained higher temp would create a better cleaning environment than would several shorter (and possibly lower temp) trips.

Clearly the above is paraphrased. More info is available wherever that particular thread is located.
 
As far as I know, once you are driving at sustained high speed, the temperature stabilizes and does not keep on increasing. Also I have often seen higher engine coolant temperature during stop and go driving than (barely illegal) high speed highway runs.

Only yesterday I advised my son to NOT use it up on a 450 mile one way MA->VA trip.
 
^I perhaps could see if you had a bit of cleaning needed that making sure you drive for a good while to help burn the crud away once it starts moving? ...but if an engine is just getting a nice yearly bottle dosage and is 'relatively' clean I doubt it matters.

On the other hand, if you are short tripping and stay in open-loop + combustion doesn't really get up to full operating temp then maybe that'd lessen product effectiveness.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
One question for you guys to ponder:

Quote:
The primary use of PEA’s in fuel is to control intake valve and combustion chamber deposits.


In a DI engine, is this still true?


If the intake isnt wetted by any way, wont it stay clean as there is no gas to deposite varnish and gunk on it ? The intake valve that is
 
I believe in that case (as in any) the carbon deposits come from the engine oil that goes down the seals and endup in the valve stem/tulips. The hardest crude carbon is from the cooked oil (coke), mostly after engine shutdown (static valves doesn't get the moviment [centripeta] cleansing and become the hottest as it ever get).
 
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Why would PEA based Fuel injector cleaners turn Engine oil to clumpy sludge?
I don't use PEA based injector cleaners anymore because this happened twice to me?

I did alot of research before I started using them. Many people say they are the best at cleaning dirty engines.

What about AlkenylAmine and polyalkenylamine fuel injector cleaners?
 
Originally Posted by Koz1
Why would PEA based Fuel injector cleaners turn Engine oil to clumpy sludge?
I don't use PEA based injector cleaners anymore because this happened twice to me?

I did alot of research before I started using them. Many people say they are the best at cleaning dirty engines.

What about AlkenylAmine and polyalkenylamine fuel injector cleaners?


Necro post but AlkenylAmine and polyalkenylamines are PEA's. Injector cleaner fluids have a higher concentration of PEA and solvents.
 
Originally Posted by BMWR1150GS
I looked at the MSDS for Techron. PEA is not listed that I could discern. Did I miss something?



The current SDS or the one from 2014?

The White Paper was penned in 2014.
 
Originally Posted by BMWR1150GS
I looked at the MSDS for Techron. PEA is not listed that I could discern. Did I miss something?

I have also noticed that recent Techron Concentrate Plus MSDS' do not explicitly list PEA...it is also worthy of note that the bottles in the store and small ad cards on their necks don't mention PEA like they used to.
If you look at a bottle of Gumout Regane it mentions PEA on the front, and the Regane MSDS also calls out polyether amine explicitly.

One thing that catches my eye on the current Techron Concentrate Plus MSDS is a component called 01154100-5179P that is listed as a trade secret under "CAS Number" and is 25-50% of the product by weight.
Could this be some "twist" on PEA that Chevron has come up with or maybe some totally new cleaner?
I guess this is only idle speculation unless Chevron chooses to tell us more.
For now, I'm sticking with PEA and buying Gumout Regane when I want a FI cleaner. Was a Techron fan for a while before I noticed "PEA" missing from the bottles, but I felt comfortable buying either Techron or Regane for several years.
 
Originally Posted by BMWR1150GS
I looked at the MSDS for Techron. PEA is not listed that I could discern. Did I miss something?


IIRC Chevron's trademarked name for the PEA chemical they produce is Techron, so you can just think 'PEA' any time you see Techron on something. As such, they wouldn't list "PEA" in the MSDS, and since Techron's exact chemistry is a trade secret, just look for anything listed as a trade secret and in a sizable amount. That's going to be the PEA in the mixture I am guessing.
 
Along the same lines as Chevron/Techron is Gumout and Regane.

Regane is Gumout's trademarked name for their PEA chemical, so anywhere you see Regane on a Gumout product, you can substitute PEA there and know what's what. Further, you will see many Gumout fuel system additives, but only some have the Regane name on them, and those are the ones with the PEA chemical in them.
 
Originally Posted by The_Nuke
Along the same lines as Chevron/Techron is Gumout and Regane.

Regane is Gumout's trademarked name for their PEA chemical, so anywhere you see Regane on a Gumout product, you can substitute PEA there and know what's what. Further, you will see many Gumout fuel system additives, but only some have the Regane name on them, and those are the ones with the PEA chemical in them.


Gumout's All In One product is rumored to have the highest PEA concentration and "Regane" does not appear on the package label.
 
Originally Posted by doitmyself
Originally Posted by The_Nuke
Along the same lines as Chevron/Techron is Gumout and Regane.

Regane is Gumout's trademarked name for their PEA chemical, so anywhere you see Regane on a Gumout product, you can substitute PEA there and know what's what. Further, you will see many Gumout fuel system additives, but only some have the Regane name on them, and those are the ones with the PEA chemical in them.


Gumout's All In One product is rumored to have the highest PEA concentration and "Regane" does not appear on the package label.



It depends on which Regane product label you're looking at. When I went to get my serpentine belt idler for the '99 S-10 at the parts store, there were like 4 different Regane products; three had PEA in big gold? letters and one had no PEA designation.
 
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