I was on a site reading about Thorium energy. And come across an article where the EPA really wanted much higher levels of ethanol in gas. Man the horror stories i have already heard about what damage ethanol has done. Let's hope it never comes to pass. 75 percent!
ethanol
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Ethanol is not a bad fuel. The problem is the US isn't set up to produce it or transport in the most efficient ways, just "cheap" ways. When properly designed, engines can make serious power on it. The problem is ethanol and gasoline are two good fuels, however they're not the best when mixed together. In newer engines ethanol is not really an issue, now older cars is a completely different story.
Originally Posted By: ron17571
I was on a site reading about Thorium energy. And come across an article where the EPA really wanted much higher levels of ethanol in gas. Man the horror stories i have already heard about what damage ethanol has done. Let's hope it never comes to pass. 75 percent!
LOL. This should be moved to the humor section.
I was on a site reading about Thorium energy. And come across an article where the EPA really wanted much higher levels of ethanol in gas. Man the horror stories i have already heard about what damage ethanol has done. Let's hope it never comes to pass. 75 percent!
LOL. This should be moved to the humor section.
Originally Posted By: volk06
Ethanol is not a bad fuel. The problem is the US isn't set up to produce it or transport in the most efficient ways, just "cheap" ways. When properly designed, engines can make serious power on it. The problem is ethanol and gasoline are two good fuels, however they're not the best when mixed together. In newer engines ethanol is not really an issue, now older cars is a completely different story.
Is Iowa an ethanol producer?
Ethanol is not a bad fuel. The problem is the US isn't set up to produce it or transport in the most efficient ways, just "cheap" ways. When properly designed, engines can make serious power on it. The problem is ethanol and gasoline are two good fuels, however they're not the best when mixed together. In newer engines ethanol is not really an issue, now older cars is a completely different story.
Is Iowa an ethanol producer?
Originally Posted By: kozanoglu
Originally Posted By: volk06
Ethanol is not a bad fuel. The problem is the US isn't set up to produce it or transport in the most efficient ways, just "cheap" ways. When properly designed, engines can make serious power on it. The problem is ethanol and gasoline are two good fuels, however they're not the best when mixed together. In newer engines ethanol is not really an issue, now older cars is a completely different story.
Is Iowa an ethanol producer?
Yes. How about Wisconsin? I don't see how this has anything to do with my statements, nothing I said was false or not already known to most people. These are two fuels best left separate. Unless the US finds a cheaper and more efficient method to produce ethanol (away from corn), ethanol will never be a viable long term solution.
Originally Posted By: volk06
Ethanol is not a bad fuel. The problem is the US isn't set up to produce it or transport in the most efficient ways, just "cheap" ways. When properly designed, engines can make serious power on it. The problem is ethanol and gasoline are two good fuels, however they're not the best when mixed together. In newer engines ethanol is not really an issue, now older cars is a completely different story.
Is Iowa an ethanol producer?
Yes. How about Wisconsin? I don't see how this has anything to do with my statements, nothing I said was false or not already known to most people. These are two fuels best left separate. Unless the US finds a cheaper and more efficient method to produce ethanol (away from corn), ethanol will never be a viable long term solution.
There's less energy in a gallon of ethanol than in gasoline, so less mpg.
Does ethanol burn cleaner than gasoline? Apparently not in some ways:
http://www.naturalnews.com/027815_ethanol_gasoline.html
It costs more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than you get out of it: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17166.cfm
Also in the same article it says,
Originally Posted By: article
Abusing our precious croplands to grow corn for an energy-inefficient process that yields low-grade automobile fuel amounts to unsustainable, subsidized food burning
Which I agree with.
Overall I'm against using it, until everyone is fed safely (insert discussion about GMO, pesticides, etc here) and it can be shown that it is sustainable and the good thing it's purported to be. Until then....
edit: I did find some sites that claimed the opposite of the ones I posted above.
Does ethanol burn cleaner than gasoline? Apparently not in some ways:
http://www.naturalnews.com/027815_ethanol_gasoline.html
It costs more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than you get out of it: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17166.cfm
Also in the same article it says,
Originally Posted By: article
Abusing our precious croplands to grow corn for an energy-inefficient process that yields low-grade automobile fuel amounts to unsustainable, subsidized food burning
Which I agree with.
Overall I'm against using it, until everyone is fed safely (insert discussion about GMO, pesticides, etc here) and it can be shown that it is sustainable and the good thing it's purported to be. Until then....
edit: I did find some sites that claimed the opposite of the ones I posted above.
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Wonder if the OP realizes that E85 is pretty readily available in some parts if the country already, and works fine in vehicles designed to handle it.
Minnesota is an ethanol producing state. Our gas has had 10% ethanol in it by state law for longer than most other places. Yes, there are some issues but its a convenient scapegoat for many more issues than what the reality is.
The biggest problem is that our ethanol industry is based on corn. I see everyday the problems caused by the expansion of big corn. A transition to less energy intensive crop and production is needed, but the power of big corn will be tough to overcome.
Minnesota is an ethanol producing state. Our gas has had 10% ethanol in it by state law for longer than most other places. Yes, there are some issues but its a convenient scapegoat for many more issues than what the reality is.
The biggest problem is that our ethanol industry is based on corn. I see everyday the problems caused by the expansion of big corn. A transition to less energy intensive crop and production is needed, but the power of big corn will be tough to overcome.
There are times I wished the 5.7L hemi was a flex fuel vehicle. I'd love to try e-85 in one especially if the designed it to run on it. Turn a real fun engine into a more versatile fun engine. Cars running alcohol tend to stay cooler which if hot lapping can present issues sometimes.
From "Wikipedia."
NASCAR Sprint Cup races can start in temperatures as low as 50 °F (10 °C) without making the vehicles suffer through major engine problems.[18] The leap into ethanol-based fuel is becoming as challenge as the Early 2014 North American cold wave has caused temperatures in much of the Southern United States to drop below zero in the early hours of the morning.
One of the downsides of allowing 15% ethanol fuel is the big jump in corn prices in recent years.[19] Even though the 2012 North American drought has made the production of ethanol too expensive to put on a nationwide scale, NASCAR continues to use E15 ethanol fuel as an alternative to their "E0" gasoline that was used in the past.[20] Suggested measures by the NASCAR community could see NASCAR using either bamboo-based ethanol, E85 ethanol from surplus corn or even compressed natural gas in the foreseeable future.[21]
NASCAR Sprint Cup races can start in temperatures as low as 50 °F (10 °C) without making the vehicles suffer through major engine problems.[18] The leap into ethanol-based fuel is becoming as challenge as the Early 2014 North American cold wave has caused temperatures in much of the Southern United States to drop below zero in the early hours of the morning.
One of the downsides of allowing 15% ethanol fuel is the big jump in corn prices in recent years.[19] Even though the 2012 North American drought has made the production of ethanol too expensive to put on a nationwide scale, NASCAR continues to use E15 ethanol fuel as an alternative to their "E0" gasoline that was used in the past.[20] Suggested measures by the NASCAR community could see NASCAR using either bamboo-based ethanol, E85 ethanol from surplus corn or even compressed natural gas in the foreseeable future.[21]
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
From "Wikipedia."
NASCAR Sprint Cup races can start in temperatures as low as 50 °F (10 °C) without making the vehicles suffer through major engine problems.[18] The leap into ethanol-based fuel is becoming as challenge as the Early 2014 North American cold wave has caused temperatures in much of the Southern United States to drop below zero in the early hours of the morning.
One of the downsides of allowing 15% ethanol fuel is the big jump in corn prices in recent years.[19] Even though the 2012 North American drought has made the production of ethanol too expensive to put on a nationwide scale, NASCAR continues to use E15 ethanol fuel as an alternative to their "E0" gasoline that was used in the past.[20] Suggested measures by the NASCAR community could see NASCAR using either bamboo-based ethanol, E85 ethanol from surplus corn or even compressed natural gas in the foreseeable future.[21]
Safety first doesn't apply when you start racing 200 MPH cars running on CNG.
From "Wikipedia."
NASCAR Sprint Cup races can start in temperatures as low as 50 °F (10 °C) without making the vehicles suffer through major engine problems.[18] The leap into ethanol-based fuel is becoming as challenge as the Early 2014 North American cold wave has caused temperatures in much of the Southern United States to drop below zero in the early hours of the morning.
One of the downsides of allowing 15% ethanol fuel is the big jump in corn prices in recent years.[19] Even though the 2012 North American drought has made the production of ethanol too expensive to put on a nationwide scale, NASCAR continues to use E15 ethanol fuel as an alternative to their "E0" gasoline that was used in the past.[20] Suggested measures by the NASCAR community could see NASCAR using either bamboo-based ethanol, E85 ethanol from surplus corn or even compressed natural gas in the foreseeable future.[21]
Safety first doesn't apply when you start racing 200 MPH cars running on CNG.
i am not a scholar, just an average citizen and here are my points: I don't like using our corn to produce ethanol as that corn is better used for food in my opinion. We should find something else to produce the ethanol from. I know that eventually we will likely need another fuel supply and I think that should be developed and worked on currently as we have plenty of time to do so.
I also do not like being mandated to use the ethanol, i should of been allowed to vote on the issue and even then if a renewable fuels standard had still been passed it should still be voluntary as to what a person wants to run.
today, sometimes you don't even know what you are buying.
I also do not like being mandated to use the ethanol, i should of been allowed to vote on the issue and even then if a renewable fuels standard had still been passed it should still be voluntary as to what a person wants to run.
today, sometimes you don't even know what you are buying.
let me clear up my last point that you don't even know what you are buying.
our legislators that passed the renewable fuel standards, did just that; passed the bill and did not set any protocols as to how to do it.
instead each state was left to decide how they were going to meet the federal standard. as a consequence some states mandate ethanol in their lower octane fuels and some states mandate it in their higher octane fuels. some states have exemptions and an exemption does not mean that the particular octane rated fuel does not have ethanol it only means it "may" not have it-the decision is left to someone else.
it is a convoluted mess and when you travel, you need to know each states ethanol mandate to make your best guess as to what you are getting. even then i would be willing to guess that ethanol is being put in to just about everything as most people can't even understand what has happened much less care. only real way to tell if you have ethanol is to test a sample and how often are you going to be able to do this if you are on the road traveling.
this is why i use additives all the time. just my opinion.
jc
our legislators that passed the renewable fuel standards, did just that; passed the bill and did not set any protocols as to how to do it.
instead each state was left to decide how they were going to meet the federal standard. as a consequence some states mandate ethanol in their lower octane fuels and some states mandate it in their higher octane fuels. some states have exemptions and an exemption does not mean that the particular octane rated fuel does not have ethanol it only means it "may" not have it-the decision is left to someone else.
it is a convoluted mess and when you travel, you need to know each states ethanol mandate to make your best guess as to what you are getting. even then i would be willing to guess that ethanol is being put in to just about everything as most people can't even understand what has happened much less care. only real way to tell if you have ethanol is to test a sample and how often are you going to be able to do this if you are on the road traveling.
this is why i use additives all the time. just my opinion.
jc
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Originally Posted By: Kuato
There's less energy in a gallon of ethanol than in gasoline, so less mpg.
Does ethanol burn cleaner than gasoline? Apparently not in some ways:
http://www.naturalnews.com/027815_ethanol_gasoline.html
It costs more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than you get out of it: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17166.cfm
The costs are heavily dependent on the location and the source. Cane sugar ethanol from Brazil is extremely efficiently produced. They have the climate for it, in fact better than Florida or Louisiana, which have commercial cane sugar production.
As far as less energy content, sure that's a factor when you're talking about E10. However, E85 is a far more efficient fuel if the engine is designed for it, and the engine should extract better fuel economy relative to the energy content. You might be able to get equivalent fuel economy relative to energy content with racing gas, but few people want to spend $8/gallon.
I understand most motor vehicles in Brazil run on 100% ethanol.
There's less energy in a gallon of ethanol than in gasoline, so less mpg.
Does ethanol burn cleaner than gasoline? Apparently not in some ways:
http://www.naturalnews.com/027815_ethanol_gasoline.html
It costs more energy to make a gallon of ethanol than you get out of it: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17166.cfm
The costs are heavily dependent on the location and the source. Cane sugar ethanol from Brazil is extremely efficiently produced. They have the climate for it, in fact better than Florida or Louisiana, which have commercial cane sugar production.
As far as less energy content, sure that's a factor when you're talking about E10. However, E85 is a far more efficient fuel if the engine is designed for it, and the engine should extract better fuel economy relative to the energy content. You might be able to get equivalent fuel economy relative to energy content with racing gas, but few people want to spend $8/gallon.
I understand most motor vehicles in Brazil run on 100% ethanol.
I would think with the current low cost of ethanol that most gas is near the full 10%. I have used E10 for decades in Illinois. The only thing I don't like as a fuel about it is for the small engines. The plastic fuel lines and it's ability to absorb water are a major pain for me here.
Never saw any need for additives in car gasoline. And the fuel systems stay nice and clean.
Never saw any need for additives in car gasoline. And the fuel systems stay nice and clean.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I understand most motor vehicles in Brazil run on 100% ethanol.
Not so true - the Brazilian automobile fuel supply has varied considerably since the 70's. here's a more recent example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicles_in_Brazil
When gasohol was trialed here in the 80's much of the alchohol was imported from Brazil for that effort. It died its own death in the free market to be resurrected as something mandated.
Petrobras is a big energy company that drills for oil and builds and runs refineries.
I ran into a former coworker recently who now works for Lubrizol and his assigned area is the gasoline additives markets in South America.
I understand most motor vehicles in Brazil run on 100% ethanol.
Not so true - the Brazilian automobile fuel supply has varied considerably since the 70's. here's a more recent example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicles_in_Brazil
When gasohol was trialed here in the 80's much of the alchohol was imported from Brazil for that effort. It died its own death in the free market to be resurrected as something mandated.
Petrobras is a big energy company that drills for oil and builds and runs refineries.
I ran into a former coworker recently who now works for Lubrizol and his assigned area is the gasoline additives markets in South America.
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