New Plugs are Powdery Black. w/PIC. Diagnosis?
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Originally Posted By: supton
Why are the comp numbers so dissimilar? As in, 150, 135, 200, 180?
Without running the engine up to temp, then doing a compression test with the engine warm, and the throttle wide open, those numbers mean very little......Except that it doesn't have any valves leaking severely.
The reason I mentioned the possibility of a blown head gasket is that those 2 high cylinders may have coolant in them. The low cylinder could be leaking into an adjacent cylinder, or the water jacket.
OP thinks that the engine is flooded with fuel, which would give false high readings as well.....If there is enough fuel to actually partly fill the cylinders.
Why are the comp numbers so dissimilar? As in, 150, 135, 200, 180?
Without running the engine up to temp, then doing a compression test with the engine warm, and the throttle wide open, those numbers mean very little......Except that it doesn't have any valves leaking severely.
The reason I mentioned the possibility of a blown head gasket is that those 2 high cylinders may have coolant in them. The low cylinder could be leaking into an adjacent cylinder, or the water jacket.
OP thinks that the engine is flooded with fuel, which would give false high readings as well.....If there is enough fuel to actually partly fill the cylinders.
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
I would replace the coolant temp sensor. They are know to go bad.Get a brass tipped one. I would do that first.
Yep, as suspected... it's got the original Polymer ECTS in it, here is a close-up pic...
The old ones have that round area just before there the socket goes on it...
I would replace the coolant temp sensor. They are know to go bad.Get a brass tipped one. I would do that first.
Yep, as suspected... it's got the original Polymer ECTS in it, here is a close-up pic...
The old ones have that round area just before there the socket goes on it...
If your running that rich the extra oil may be fuel. Does the oil smell like fuel?
The CE light should be on, you need to scan it and tell us what codes are showing to go much further.
Since all the plugs are black I'd say that rules out the injectors, typically they don't all go bad at once. Could be a fuel pressure regulator? Not 100% familiar with these old Saturns.
The CE light should be on, you need to scan it and tell us what codes are showing to go much further.
Since all the plugs are black I'd say that rules out the injectors, typically they don't all go bad at once. Could be a fuel pressure regulator? Not 100% familiar with these old Saturns.
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Blown head gasket would not account for black sooty plugs, they would be powerwashed.
The oil would look like a milkshake and that was not mentioned.
The oil would look like a milkshake and that was not mentioned.
Do Saturn's have the cold start injector in the intake plenum still?
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
If your running that rich the extra oil may be fuel. Does the oil smell like fuel?
The CE light should be on, you need to scan it and tell us what codes are showing to go much further.
Since all the plugs are black I'd say that rules out the injectors, typically they don't all go bad at once. Could be a fuel pressure regulator? Not 100% familiar with these old Saturns.
Yes, the oil smells like gas.
I see someone replaced #4 injector recently, old one is sitting in the tray by the seat.
The ECTS is the correct new style; the old one had the square area, not round.
I went ahead & replaced the Fuel Filter/Regulator.
I have to let the pools of gas sitting above the Pistons evaporate before I spread some oil down the cylinders around the circumference before I crank it as the gas stripped the rings.
If your running that rich the extra oil may be fuel. Does the oil smell like fuel?
The CE light should be on, you need to scan it and tell us what codes are showing to go much further.
Since all the plugs are black I'd say that rules out the injectors, typically they don't all go bad at once. Could be a fuel pressure regulator? Not 100% familiar with these old Saturns.
Yes, the oil smells like gas.
I see someone replaced #4 injector recently, old one is sitting in the tray by the seat.
The ECTS is the correct new style; the old one had the square area, not round.
I went ahead & replaced the Fuel Filter/Regulator.
I have to let the pools of gas sitting above the Pistons evaporate before I spread some oil down the cylinders around the circumference before I crank it as the gas stripped the rings.
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: Noey
First, what on earth is a 'Bang bang' sound? And as an FYI, a car with that sound cannot be accurately described as 'near mint'.
The owner of the car, who is from Kenya, said it was making a "bang-bang" sound coming from the engine.
Maybe he put a hidden turbo on it with a heavy duty anti-lag system?? LOL
Originally Posted By: Noey
First, what on earth is a 'Bang bang' sound? And as an FYI, a car with that sound cannot be accurately described as 'near mint'.
The owner of the car, who is from Kenya, said it was making a "bang-bang" sound coming from the engine.
Maybe he put a hidden turbo on it with a heavy duty anti-lag system?? LOL
98 should be an OBD2 car, turn the key to position two and pull some codes. I wouldn't be so quick to shotgun parts at it.
Pull the plugs and crank it over to blow the gas out. Change the oil. Drive.
The ecu could have a shorted transistor holding all four injectors at 100% duty cycle, or it just might be a short in the harness if they are negative trigger.
Just key the ignition on and see if fuel sprays in the cylinders.
The ecu could have a shorted transistor holding all four injectors at 100% duty cycle, or it just might be a short in the harness if they are negative trigger.
Just key the ignition on and see if fuel sprays in the cylinders.
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Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I would replace the coolant temp sensor. They are know to go bad.Get a brass tipped one. I would do that first.
Yep, as suspected... it's got the original Polymer ECTS in it, here is a close-up pic...
The old ones have that round area just before there the socket goes on it...
i had to replace on on my sons saturn, was so rich i could smell it running. Oil was black and also smelled of fuel. Thats where i would start. Its a common known problem. I thing they went to brass cts in late 01 and 2002.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I would replace the coolant temp sensor. They are know to go bad.Get a brass tipped one. I would do that first.
Yep, as suspected... it's got the original Polymer ECTS in it, here is a close-up pic...
The old ones have that round area just before there the socket goes on it...
i had to replace on on my sons saturn, was so rich i could smell it running. Oil was black and also smelled of fuel. Thats where i would start. Its a common known problem. I thing they went to brass cts in late 01 and 2002.
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Update:
- I sucked the gas that was sitting atop of the pistons.
- Sprayed some Fogging oil in the holes, but when I sprayed #1 or #2, some white smoke came out of #4..... Head Gasket? Wouldn't it start though??
- Charged the battery to 100%, but the compression tester was not holding pressure; another time, another tester.
- Put all plugs back in, went to start it, and it was trying to start, but was occasionally stumbling, then just turning over.
- Took the brass ECTS out and swapped it with the polymer IAT. Went to start it and it stumbled, cranked normally for 3-4 seconds, then stumbled, then cranked normally.
When it cranks, it sounds totally normal.
So.
Think I'm going to pull the cam cover off and check it out while cranking.
Thoughts?? Bent Valves??
Thank you.
- I sucked the gas that was sitting atop of the pistons.
- Sprayed some Fogging oil in the holes, but when I sprayed #1 or #2, some white smoke came out of #4..... Head Gasket? Wouldn't it start though??
- Charged the battery to 100%, but the compression tester was not holding pressure; another time, another tester.
- Put all plugs back in, went to start it, and it was trying to start, but was occasionally stumbling, then just turning over.
- Took the brass ECTS out and swapped it with the polymer IAT. Went to start it and it stumbled, cranked normally for 3-4 seconds, then stumbled, then cranked normally.
When it cranks, it sounds totally normal.
So.
Think I'm going to pull the cam cover off and check it out while cranking.
Thoughts?? Bent Valves??
Thank you.
Bent valves wouldn't have compression. And if the cam timing was off I'd expect compression to be funky if not outright low.
is it tossing any codes? I wonder if spark is any good (although at this point a good spark is probably drowned out).
is it tossing any codes? I wonder if spark is any good (although at this point a good spark is probably drowned out).
Originally Posted By: supton
Bent valves wouldn't have compression. And if the cam timing was off I'd expect compression to be funky if not outright low.
is it tossing any codes? I wonder if spark is any good (although at this point a good spark is probably drowned out).
Hooked my UltraGauge last night and it's throwing no codes.
Bent valves wouldn't have compression. And if the cam timing was off I'd expect compression to be funky if not outright low.
is it tossing any codes? I wonder if spark is any good (although at this point a good spark is probably drowned out).
Hooked my UltraGauge last night and it's throwing no codes.
Check the coil with a MM...it could be to weak to fire or just not at all. Check the Crankshaft Sensor, won't let the car fire at all if bad.
Are they broken or just loose?
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