Internal Fighting within OPEC

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Just saw this:

Quote:
Crude oil futures settled down 4.6 percent at $81.84 a barrel, the biggest percentage drop since November 2012 and the lowest settlement since June 28, 2012.

Brent crude for November slid earlier and lurched lower toward the end of the day, dropping by more than $4 a barrel to dip below $85 a barrel for the first time since 2010. It was the biggest one-day drop in prices since 2011. The benchmark settled at $85.04, $3.85 lower on the day.

Oil dived more than $4 a barrel on Tuesday, its biggest drop in more than two years as mounting evidence of slackening demand and unrelenting U.S. shale output left traders struggling to peg a floor for crude's four-month rout.

The abrupt acceleration of an over 26 percent slide in prices since June was triggered by three news items that epitomized the market's turn: a downgrade in global oil consumption forecasts; projections for another big boost in shale oil; and reluctance by OPEC members to cut output.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/102084062
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: bvance554

I wasn't judging, I was pointing out the hypocrisy.
And virtually anyone driving a car or truck is guilty of some if they complain about oil.

The fact is this country needs some work, and oil could easily fuel an economic renaissance if only we could get the greenies to allow it.


For more than driving a car/truck! Anyone who buys ANYTHING at a grocery, department, auto, home improvement, garden, etc. store. All that inventory was delivered on the back of a truck!

So is everything they buy off the internet and from Amazon! Talk about hypocrisy!
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi


There are some medicines that cannot be made without petroleum. Likewise, we don't have a reliable source of bio-based plastics to transport/use those medicines. Conserving what's there for my health and yours (and your kids and grandkids health) a few decades down the line is a good idea.

Come on man. You really think one day just out of the blue we won't have enough to make medicine and plastics? That's not how this stuff works. Petroleum will always be available. As the price goes up it opens up techniques and locations that were unavailable before. I seriously doubt in 50 years we'll be using petroleum to power vehicles anyway, with the technological advancements that will be coming. "Running out of oil" at this point is simply nonsense.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: bvance554

I wasn't judging, I was pointing out the hypocrisy.


The fact is this country needs some work, and oil could easily fuel an economic renaissance if only we could get the greenies to allow it.


No sure of anyplace that the "greenies are preventing oil drilling or production, but our increased energy efficiency that their legislation has encouraged has reduced our consumption from 21 million to 18 million barrels a day. Consider now the nearly one million barrels a day we get from all the wells in North Dakota combined. The price reduction is likely more because of the greenies than the drillers!

Yeah, much of the land off Florida is banned from drilling, likely Governor Jeb Bush was feeling green when he got the White house Bush to sign this into law. The oil lobbyists could get this changed, but most of the test wells have been dry or very low producers. The estimated size of the "off limits" arctic preserve have been downgraded, and drillers are also no longer very interested in opening it up.

How about a "drill but conserve" motto!!
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: bvance554

I wasn't judging, I was pointing out the hypocrisy.
And virtually anyone driving a car or truck is guilty of some if they complain about oil.

The fact is this country needs some work, and oil could easily fuel an economic renaissance if only we could get the greenies to allow it.


For more than driving a car/truck! Anyone who buys ANYTHING at a grocery, department, auto, home improvement, garden, etc. store. All that inventory was delivered on the back of a truck!

So is everything they buy off the internet and from Amazon! Talk about hypocrisy!


Thanks for the additional illumination. IME hypocrites hate light!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: bvance554

I wasn't judging, I was pointing out the hypocrisy.


And virtually anyone driving a car or truck is guilty of some if they complain about oil.

The fact is this country needs some work, and oil could easily fuel an economic renaissance if only we could get the greenies to allow it.

It is fueling, problem is that you are not hearing it on TV from political talking heads since it is not in their interest.
Last year, 10,000 oil jobs was created in Denver area and unemployment rate in Colorado is at 4.7%.
The U.S. is going through oil boom under this administration, but a lot of people in political world does not want voters to recognize that.
On other hand truth is, this administration is trying to kill coal. Go for it if you ask me. The U.S. did not become superpower and world richest country by sticking to old technologies, but always being ahead of the game. I just cannot see how coal is fitting into that or even oil for that matter.
No matter what happens, we will at one point move to electric cars. If you ask my heart: unfortunately. If you ask my brain: fortunately. It is what it is, but whoever moves first to electric cars, will have monopoly on technology, and the U.S. (Tesla) right now is leading the way.
So yeah, it make sense for OPEC to lower prices before idea of electric cars really settle among people.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Leave it in the ground. We need it for medicine and plastics, not to be burned propelling our ever-larger selves ever faster to 60 mph.


In the U.S. a driver can make a car that is capable of zero to sixty in five seconds into something a guy on a bicycle can out-accelerate. The cars get faster and the drivers get slower. They must enjoy sitting through multiple cycles of the ever growing number of traffic lights.
 
More panic ensues. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-23...-september.html

Quote:
Crude collapsed into a bear market this month as Saudi Arabia and other producers deepened price discounts for their oil, amid speculation they’re competing for market share in Asia. Global supplies are rising as the U.S. pumps the most in almost three decades and Russia’s output nears a post-Soviet record.
.......
(emphasis added...with delight!)

Angola, Libya and Venezuela have all said OPEC needs to take action on prices, with the Latin American nation’s President Nicolas Maduro calling for an emergency meeting in a televised address Oct. 17. Global markets are oversupplied by about 1 million barrels a day and OPEC needs to reduce collective output by at least 500,000 barrels a day, Libya’s OPEC governor Samir Kamal said by e-mail yesterday, adding that his comments reflected personal views.
................

Brent crude for December settlement rose as much as $1.94, or 2.3 percent, to $86.65 a barrel in London. West Texas Intermediate crude for December delivery gained as much as $1.38, or 1.7 percent, to $81.90 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.


Drill baby, drill!
 
More wailing and knashing of teeth
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsb...oil-prices.html

Quote:
Whatever action Opec agrees to take next week to halt the sharp decline in the value of crude, experts agree that one thing is clear: the world is entering into an era of lower oil prices that the group is almost powerless to change.

This new energy paradigm may result in oil trading at much lower levels than the $100 (£64) per barrel that consumers have grown used to paying over the last decade and reshape the entire global economy.

It could also trigger the eventual break-up of Opec, the group of mainly Middle East producers, which due to its control of 60pc of the world’s petroleum reserves has often been accused of acting like a cartel.

Even worse, some experts warn that a prolonged period of lower oil prices could reshape the entire political map of the Middle East, triggering a new wave of political uprisings in petrodollar sheikhdoms in the Persian Gulf, which depend on the income from crude to underwrite their high levels of public spending and support less wealthy client states in the Arab world.

“We are now entering a new era in world oil and we will have lower prices for some time to come,” says Daniel Yergin, the Pulitzer prize-winning author of The Quest: Energy Security and the Remaking of the Modern World. “Oil was really the last commodity in the super-cycle to remain standing.”

Oil__3113837c.jpg


“The oil market is being redefined by two factors. Firstly, the astonishing growth in US oil production, which is real and dynamic. Secondly, the realisation that the world economy is much weaker that was previously expected so demand is being squeezed,” says Mr Yergin, who also sits on the US Secretary of Energy Advisory Board.

Lifting the ban on US crude oil exports, which first came into force in the 1970s to ensure energy security, is becoming an evermore likely move by Washington as it seeks to apply pressure on Russia’s President Vladimir Putin to back down over Ukraine. According to the energy advisers IHS, such a move would further stimulate growth in domestic production and cut America’s existing import bill by $67bn,

Opec owes its existence to a period of great economic and political upheaval in the 1960s, when demand for crude oil began to surge from rapidly growing industrialised economies and producing countries in the Middle East started to emerge as newly independent states.

Created in Baghdad by five original members including Saudi, Iraq and Venezuela, the organisation offered the first real counterbalance to the so-called “seven sisters” of international oil companies such as Shell and BP, which had dominated global supply up to that time.

This is 2014..not the 60's or 70's. Policy made then is seriously out-of-date. The desert rats have dominated enough and the middle East continues to remain unstable as it has for a thousand plus years. Let them pound sand..and throw it at each other. The money purse fuels dictators, factions, warlords and other screw-balls. How well has that worked out?

Gas here has dropped 22% to around $2.55/ga. I like it when my money goes farther. So does everyone else, save the meanie-greenies and oil-haters. Let them walk and pound sand as well.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/39a42c92-69af-11e4-8f4f-00144feabdc0.html
Quote:
The share of US imports of crude oil from Opec nations are at their lowest level in almost 30 years, underlining the impact of the shale revolution on global trade flows.

The lower dependence on imports from the cartel, which pumps a third of the world’s crude, comes amid advances in hydraulic fracturing that has propelled domestic US production to about 9m barrels a day – the highest level since the mid-1980s.

n August, Opec’s share of US crude oil imports dropped to 40 per cent – accounting for 2.9m b/d – the lowest since May 1985, according to Financial Times analysis of US Department of Energy data. At its 1976 peak it stood at about 88 per cent.

The decline in US appetite for foreign oil, alongside expanding eastern demand, has meant producers from the Middle East, west Africa and Latin America have turned towards Asia.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/23/uk-opec-meeting-iran-saudi-idUKKCN0J70NY20141123
Quote:
(Reuters) - Iran will try to persuade Saudi Arabia to cut oil production when the oil ministers from the two OPEC members meet this week in Vienna, Iran's semi-official Mehr news agency reported on Sunday citing a television interview with the country's oil minister.

Iran has said the steep fall in oil prices this year is the result of deliberate moves by some exporters which have kept production high to undermine Tehran's sanctions-hit economy.

The country is struggling to offset a wide budget imbalance created by the drop in oil prices.

Let the gulf widen further...payback is a $%^&#!, isn't it?
 
This isn't the first time that OPEC's had a price war and it won't be the last.
It may last for the next year or so.
It offers the side benefit to OPEC of running enhanced recovery operators out of business, at least for some time.
The Saudis have the production volume and cost levels to rule OPEC and this is as true today as it was a few decades back.
It isn't Venezuela and Russia calling for higher production and lower prices.
The current oil price will wreck the economies and governmental budgets of both and Russia will be begging the EU to take its natural gas at any price the EU buyers want to offer.
 
Originally Posted By: bruno
The amount of oil required to produce medicines is infinitesimal.
If it comes to that hydrocarbons for that purpose can be created synthetically .
Agree.
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-30...as-to-iran.html

Quote:
Oil’s decline is proving to be the worst since the collapse of the financial system in 2008 and threatening to have the same global impact of falling prices three decades ago that led to the Mexican debt crisis and the end of the Soviet Union.

Russia, the world’s largest producer, can no longer rely on the same oil revenues to rescue an economy suffering from European and U.S. sanctions. Iran, also reeling from similar sanctions, will need to reduce subsidies that have partly insulated its growing population. Nigeria, fighting an Islamic insurgency, and Venezuela, crippled by failing political and economic policies, also rank among the biggest losers from the decision by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries last week to let the force of the market determine what some experts say will be the first free-fall in decades.

“This is a big shock in Caracas, it’s a shock in Tehran, it’s a shock in Abuja,” Daniel Yergin, vice chairman of Englewood, Colorado-based consultant IHS Inc. and author of a Pulitzer Prize-winning history of oil, told Bloomberg Radio. “There’s a change in psychology. There’s going to be a higher degree of uncertainty.”
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilpr...de-crashes.html

Quote:
Saudi Arabia and the core Opec states are taking an immense political gamble by letting crude oil prices crash to $66 a barrel, if their aim is to shake out the weakest shale producers in the US. A deep slump in prices might equally heighten geostrategic turmoil across the broader Middle East and boomerang against the Gulf’s petro-sheikhdoms before it inflicts a knock-out blow on US rivals.

Chris Skrebowski, former editor of Petroleum Review, said the Saudis want to cut the annual growth rate of US shale output from 1m barrels per day (bpd) to 500,000 bpd to bring the market closer to balance. “They want to unnerve the shale oil model and undermine financial confidence, but they won’t stop the growth altogether,” he said.

There is no question that the US has entirely changed the global energy landscape and poses an existential threat to Opec. America has cut its net oil imports by 8.7m bpd since 2006, equal to the combined oil exports of Saudi Arabia and Nigeria.

The country had a trade deficit of $354bn in oil and gas as recently as 2011. Citigroup said this will return to balance by 2018, one of the most extraordinary turnarounds in modern economic history.

Opec has misjudged the threat. As late as last year, it was dismissing US shale as a flash in the pan. Abdalla El-Badri, the group’s secretary-general, still insists that half of all US shale output is vulnerable below $85.

This is bravado. US producers have locked in higher prices through derivatives contracts. Noble Energy and Devon Energy have both hedged over three-quarters of their output for 2015.

Pioneer Natural Resources said it has options through 2016 covering two- thirds of its likely production. “We can produce down to $50 a barrel,” said Harold Hamm, from Continental Resources. The International Energy Agency said most of North Dakota’s vast Bakken field “remains profitable at or below $42 per barrel. The break-even price in McKenzie County, the most productive county in the state, is only $28 per barrel.”

Efficiency is improving and drillers are switching to lower-cost spots, confronting Opec with a moving target. “The (price) floor is falling and may not be nearly as firm as the Saudi view assumes,” said Citigroup.

In the meantime, oil below $70 is already playing havoc with budgets across the global petro-nexus. The fiscal break-even cost is $161 for Venezuela, $160 for Yemen, $132 for Algeria, $131 for Iran, $126 for Nigeria, and $125 for Bahrain, $111 for Iraq, and $105 for Russia, and even $98 for Saudi Arabia itself, according to Citigroup.
 
Update:

Venezuela confirms recession, inflation hits 63.6 percent in Nov.

Quote:
The central bank statement, confirming an economic contraction widely forecast by analysts, came just before President Nicolas Maduro was about to start a news conference in which he was expected to announce economic changes.

Venezuela's socialist government blames political opponents, who protested in the streets for four months earlier this year, for damaging the South American OPEC nation's economy. The protests resulted in violence that killed 43 people.

"These actions against public order blocked the correct distribution of basic goods to the population, as well as the normal development of production of goods and services," the bank statement said.

"This resulted in an inflationary spike and a fall in economic activity."

Opponents say Venezuela's economic crisis is a consequence of 15 years of socialist policies, begun by Maduro's predecessor Hugo Chavez, who ruled from 1999 to 2013 before his death from cancer.

nflation in September was up 4.8 percent, October 5.0 percent and November 4.7 percent, compared with the same months of 2013, the bank said in its statement

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/30/venezuela-economy-idUSL1N0UE1FY20141230

Interesting the reporter mentions it is an OPEC nation, but nothing about how the rapid fall of oil has affected them. Further, the socialists in charge don't want to admit their own policies, and those of Hugo, are to blame, instead deflecting blame and attention onto their "political enemies." Too bad!

They're in a panic because the house of Saud has left them twisting in the wind and is deaf to their ranting. So be it. I wonder if our current regime will attempt to prop up the failing socialist state of Venezuela?
 
Texas will go from boom to bust this year. Wells are being shut down rapidly there now. Same for the N Dakota.

http://rt.com/usa/217959-us-oil-industry-prices/

Quote:
For Texas, which has a far larger and more diversified economy than Louisiana, the oil price downturn is no good either. In just October and November Texas lost 2,300 oil and gas jobs, the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reported last week. Through the last half a year the state has been losing $83 million in potential revenue every day, the Greater Houston Partnership recently reported. They blamed this on crashing price of its West Texas Intermediate crude oil, which has depreciated to $54.73 per barrel this week, from more than $100 six months ago.

The situation in other oil-extracting states could be even worse. In a study published last year, the Council on Foreign Relations warned the largest job losses caused by sharp decline in oil prices are going to take place in North Dakota, Oklahoma and Wyoming, where the number of drilling rigs is decreasing.
 
No doubt some will be affected, but bust? Hardly. Texas' economy is booming in many areas, not just oil. Further, lots of people are moving here from other states whose economies are doing much worse. You ought to see the out-of-state-plates and traffic!
 
Just returned from Austin, Tx. That place IS booming!

Great job market, no recession in TX. Just tons of work.

I think OPEC has played all they got, if this doesn't work they are finished. Seems to me it's already failing...
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
The year is young for Texas.

Your comment has all the appearance of a drive-by, plus a tone of Tx-bashing. We are doing much better than IL...it's not even close. IOW, you're arguing from a very weak position, without a leg to stand on.

Besides my thread here regards internal fighting with OPEC. Go bash Tx somewhere else. Many from ChiCAHgo have moved here, like my next-door-neighbors. They love not paying a state income tax + the lower cost of living. Further, he moved his parents down here several years ago. Imagine that....
 
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