Q: For people that go multiple OCI on oil filters

[rrounds]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Honda = Engine !

If they recommend changing oil filter only on second oil change for some applications, do you think they didn't do their homework first before recommend it ? Why Accord, Civic ... have FCI at second oil change but S2000 FCI is at every oil change ? They did their homework and found that it's the best for those engines......


On my '06 S2000, it says to change the oil filter every other oil change. I wonder when and why they changed the oil filter intervals on the S2000? I run my oversize oil filter(over twice as large as the stock Honda filter for the S) two to three oil changes and my uoa's are great for this engine.

ROD

 

[DrDave]

Thank you for your shared observations. If I were better-versed at this I would post the entire original report. My initial comments were only in regard to filter efficiency by way of particle count. The wear metals circulating in the engine oil were reduced as well. I attribute this to the oil more than the filter. I do not have a VOA particle count from this oil for comparison. I could still do that since I have oil from this case on the shelf.

As an independent data point I had a VOA with particle count done on a sample of Aeroshell W65 (30wt) oil that I use in my flying machine. The >4micron count was 243. The >14micron count was 22. I am in no way suggesting a comparison of these two oils. I am merely suggesting that new oil out of the bottle is not pure as was mentioned above. 435 particles on a 21,000 mile oil filter is not far from 243 particles on new oil. I know they are different oils. I am assuming* that there is not a huge variation in industry standards.

I found it interesting to learn that new oil is run through a pre-filter prior to being used in hydraulic applications. The lab's comment was that the Aeroshell was cleaner than most.

Again, I hope this inspired some thought provoking data to ponder.

Dave

 

[ChrisD46]

Some GM oil filters are so bad to get to - even Houdini would have trouble getting them out !

 

[SilverC6]

The cheap insurance I get when I change my oil filter with each OCI is I have a new filter on the car.

Oil filters aren't made in Heaven.

They are made in a factory by people that have "hungover" Mondays and "it's almost the weekend" Fridays.

 

[DrDave]

Would you rather fly across open water in an airplane with a brand new engine or an engine that has flown for a thousand hours?

Dave

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: DrDave
Would you rather fly across open water in an airplane with a brand new engine or an engine that has flown for a thousand hours?

Dave


Brand new anything has an unproven track record and therefore could be defective. If something is working fine and still within its design life I would rather continue running it instead of introducing an unknown.

 

[Nyogtha]

Originally Posted By: DrDave
Would you rather fly across open water in an airplane with a brand new engine or an engine that has flown for a thousand hours?

Dave

Test pilots get paid a premium for their services last I knew.

But a proven engine design mounted on a new commercial aircraft that made its way through the various tests before installation, and was flown from the point of final assembly / manufacture to a commercial airport, would be a very different case.

So I don't see a lot of sense with this analogy personally.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: DrDave
Would you rather fly across open water in an airplane with a brand new engine or an engine that has flown for a thousand hours?

Dave


Oil filters are disposable items with a specified service life.

A better analogy is flying with a newly serviced engine or one that is 1000 hours past a required FAA stipulated service.

So you contend that the college student with 20,000 miles on an oil/filter change is smarter than 99% of the folks on this site that over service their vehicles.

And the proof of your theory is the plume of blue smoke coming from the student's exhaust pipe.

 

[DrDave]

You are way beyond any leap in logic. This thread has expended it's usefulness.

Dave

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: DrDave
You are way beyond any leap in logic. This thread has expended it's usefulness.

Dave


I thought that after your first post....

 

[oliveoil]

Just had the 2nd 5k+ OCI on the 08 Rav4 with the v6, and the filter is still on it. 15k and counting. The canister filters are stout. 15k will do it and I'll change the filter at next OCI.

 

[Clevy]

I
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: DrDave
Would you rather fly across open water in an airplane with a brand new engine or an engine that has flown for a thousand hours?

Dave


Oil filters are disposable items with a specified service life.

A better analogy is flying with a newly serviced engine or one that is 1000 hours past a required FAA stipulated service.

So you contend that the college student with 20,000 miles on an oil/filter change is smarter than 99% of the folks on this site that over service their vehicles.

And the proof of your theory is the plume of blue smoke coming from the student's exhaust pipe.



That's not what's being implied and you know it.
Sure filters have a design life,which very few people in the real world keep them in service for.
The science is proven. As a filter loads it becomes more efficient. Trying to imply otherwise is ignoring fact.
And this member posts actual particle counts as evidence.
Now since the testing protocol hasn't been confirmed its possible there could be inconsistencies however don't we always clamour for data. This guy posts actual data then if it doesn't fit a certain ideal someone insists on being obtuse.
It's funny. Because the data confirms a hypothesis that some people have convinced themselves of being bad of course lets pollute the thread with nonsense.
Data is data. It's not picking a side based on years of poor ideas or not being what grandad did. It's data.
You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Didn't you know that emotion and blinders over-ride facts every day of the week - LOL.

 

[SilverC6]

Z, you wrote the book on emotion and blinders. LOL

Certainly filters become more efficient with use.

But to recommend the use of a filter beyond its serviceability is another thing.

The value of the filter is not just its instantaneous rate of filtration but its capacity to hold contaminants in its media.

With your highly efficient "full" oil filter, you have little capacity for additional contaminants.

So if your air filter fails or you develop a small coolant leak, you're in line to damage your engine when your loaded oil filter immediately goes into bypass.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: DrDave

The numbers below represent 6,966, 14,419, and 21,926 miles on the filter.

It is abundantly clear that the filter is becoming dramatically more efficient.




Now this is wonderful data,and it's a slap in the face for those guys who call short intervals cheap insurance or something stupid like that.
It's evidence that changing the filter prior to its capacity actually allows more damaging particulate to run through the engine.


I am all for extending drain intervals AND filter change intervals. I go 2X on my filters.

With that said, going over 20K is just too much. At some point, all this "efficiency" will cause clogging due to reduced flow, and media & interior construction will degrade.

Think about it: Why not go 50K then? A totally clogged filter will have "100% efficiency" if there is no flow. Of course your engine will seize up!

There are limits to everything! For me, its a reasonable 10K on the oil AND filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Z, you wrote the book on emotion and blinders. LOL

Yeah .... riiiight.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Certainly filters become more efficient with use.

But to recommend the use of a filter beyond its serviceability is another thing.


Have I ever recommend running an oil filter beyond it's recommended use period? Don't think so ...

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
With your highly efficient "full" oil filter, you have little capacity for additional contaminants.


True ... but using an oil filter based on the manufacture's recommendation should take any guess work out of the equation, unless of course you have a really dirty and sludged up engine, then it's up to the owner to determine oil filter use durations based on how dirty the engine is.

 

[txelen]

Changing the filter is a messy and frustrating process on some cars. Putting on a filter with a good longevity gets around having the change the filter every OCI. Especially with a Fumoto valve installed, an oil-only change is a breeze.

 

[Bill_G]

Originally Posted By: txelen
Changing the filter is a messy and frustrating process on some cars. Putting on a filter with a good longevity gets around having the change the filter every OCI. Especially with a Fumoto valve installed, an oil-only change is a breeze.


+1

 

[dnewton3]

Most any and all of us would agree that using a filter past its serviceable limit is a bad idea.

Unfortunately, the uninformed presume that the artificial OEM OFI limit is the same as the actual filter service limit. Nothing could be further than the truth. Even normal (non-premium) filters have a huge amount of reserve capacity for the typical O/FCI. (known sludgers and massive neglect excluded from this statement).

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Z, you wrote the book on emotion and blinders. LOL

Yeah .... riiiight.

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Certainly filters become more efficient with use.

But to recommend the use of a filter beyond its serviceability is another thing.


Have I ever recommend running an oil filter beyond it's recommended use period? Don't think so ...

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
With your highly efficient "full" oil filter, you have little capacity for additional contaminants.


True ... but using an oil filter based on the manufacture's recommendation should take any guess work out of the equation, unless of course you have a really dirty and sludged up engine, then it's up to the owner to determine oil filter use durations based on how dirty the engine is.


It's scary when we mostly agree on stuff.

First the Sparkle paper towels and now this.

Keep this up and I'll even be buying FRAM filters.