What Ever... winter tires can be PRICELESS

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
All you guys talking about snow tires has me feeling left out (kidding). If you ask anybody here in Phoenix anything about a snow tire, they'd probably look at you and ask "they make tires for snow?"

Lol


When I ordered my Blizzaks from Tirerack, I had an embarrassed guy call me to make sure that I really wanted snows in New Mexico. I reminded him we were a rocky mountain state. He said he knew, but his boss made him make the call.

No shortage of 4X4 with aggressive tires in Phoenix, though. Maybe they are all thinking of doing the Rubicon some day. Or they want to drive up to Flagstaff during the winter to see the snow (once).

You can always tell a used car from Phoenix. They have large crescent shaped swipes on the windshield. They way it works in Phoenix, is your windshield wipers rot out before it rains. You scratch your windshield. Replace wipers, which rot out again before the next rain. Repeat.

 

[hattaresguy]

I was recently at the BMW dealer and made a comment to the sales guy that none of their fancy AWD cars had tires worth a [censored] in the winter... He agreed but said they don't really say much about it, great.

I have seen a number of these cars struggle, people buy them and the dealer doesn't want to tell you, you need a $2k Tire Rack, snow tire, wheel, and TPMS package to really make the thing safe in the winter. Now since your missing a spare you have to chuck one in the trunk like an old beater, horrible cars really.

AWD/4wd is great but once up to speed a AWD/4wd anything has no advantage over my 2wd pickup. It all comes down who has the better rubber at that point. On the flip side in lots of snow a 2wd vehicle just can't get going.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Mr_Joe
Originally Posted By: geeman789
You can TELL a driver how great winter tires are...

But you can't make them buy some.... unless you live in Quebec, Canada...

Where winter tires are required by law...! The ONLY province to do so.


Yes, some places in Europe mandate Winter tires for the snowy season, all or parts of Germany for one. I'm kinda neutral on the mandate part, but agree it would save lives.

Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Baltic countries, Norway, Sweden, Finland etc.
I am from Bosnia. After 15 of November, if you are pulled over by police, they can tow away your car if you do not have dedicated snow tires (M+S and snow flake on a side) with minimum of 4mm tread depth on all 4 tires.
If there is storm, ice etc, they will even set up road checks and check every car that comes. Granted, we do not drive on all-seasons, it is either performance summer tire or winter.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
All you guys talking about snow tires has me feeling left out (kidding). If you ask anybody here in Phoenix anything about a snow tire, they'd probably look at you and ask "they make tires for snow?"

Lol


When I ordered my Blizzaks from Tirerack, I had an embarrassed guy call me to make sure that I really wanted snows in New Mexico. I reminded him we were a rocky mountain state. He said he knew, but his boss made him make the call.

No shortage of 4X4 with aggressive tires in Phoenix, though. Maybe they are all thinking of doing the Rubicon some day. Or they want to drive up to Flagstaff during the winter to see the snow (once).

You can always tell a used car from Phoenix. They have large crescent shaped swipes on the windshield. They way it works in Phoenix, is your windshield wipers rot out before it rains. You scratch your windshield. Replace wipers, which rot out again before the next rain. Repeat.
Yup, when it rains here and it's barely sprinkling, maybe enough to wipe the wipers once every 20-30 seconds you see LOTS of people with dried up wipers with them on full blast high speed because they can't wipe the windshield. Then you pull into the auto parts store parking lot and the garbage can is completely overflowing with the plastic packaging of wipers.

 

[Mr_Joe]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Mr_Joe
Originally Posted By: geeman789
You can TELL a driver how great winter tires are...

But you can't make them buy some.... unless you live in Quebec, Canada...

Where winter tires are required by law...! The ONLY province to do so.


Yes, some places in Europe mandate Winter tires for the snowy season, all or parts of Germany for one. I'm kinda neutral on the mandate part, but agree it would save lives.

Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Baltic countries, Norway, Sweden, Finland etc.
I am from Bosnia. After 15 of November, if you are pulled over by police, they can tow away your car if you do not have dedicated snow tires (M+S and snow flake on a side) with minimum of 4mm tread depth on all 4 tires.
If there is storm, ice etc, they will even set up road checks and check every car that comes. Granted, we do not drive on all-seasons, it is either performance summer tire or winter.


That is some serious winter tire regulation. I do agree it saves lives. One of the worst is when the other driver with poor tires spins out of control and slides into oncoming traffic. That type of accident happened a handful of years ago and took two young lives. I'll have my Winters on, if the other guy spins out of control, hopefully he slides harmlessly into the ditch.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Mr_Joe
Originally Posted By: geeman789
You can TELL a driver how great winter tires are...

But you can't make them buy some.... unless you live in Quebec, Canada...

Where winter tires are required by law...! The ONLY province to do so.


Yes, some places in Europe mandate Winter tires for the snowy season, all or parts of Germany for one. I'm kinda neutral on the mandate part, but agree it would save lives.

Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Baltic countries, Norway, Sweden, Finland etc.
I am from Bosnia. After 15 of November, if you are pulled over by police, they can tow away your car if you do not have dedicated snow tires (M+S and snow flake on a side) with minimum of 4mm tread depth on all 4 tires.
If there is storm, ice etc, they will even set up road checks and check every car that comes. Granted, we do not drive on all-seasons, it is either performance summer tire or winter.


Didn't realize it was regulated that tightly!

I kind if wish NY would do that. Would make the roads so much safer. But driving on bald tires is a "right", remember.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Mr_Joe
Originally Posted By: geeman789
You can TELL a driver how great winter tires are...

But you can't make them buy some.... unless you live in Quebec, Canada...

Where winter tires are required by law...! The ONLY province to do so.


Yes, some places in Europe mandate Winter tires for the snowy season, all or parts of Germany for one. I'm kinda neutral on the mandate part, but agree it would save lives.

Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Baltic countries, Norway, Sweden, Finland etc.
I am from Bosnia. After 15 of November, if you are pulled over by police, they can tow away your car if you do not have dedicated snow tires (M+S and snow flake on a side) with minimum of 4mm tread depth on all 4 tires.
If there is storm, ice etc, they will even set up road checks and check every car that comes. Granted, we do not drive on all-seasons, it is either performance summer tire or winter.


Didn't realize it was regulated that tightly!

I kind if wish NY would do that. Would make the roads so much safer. But driving on bald tires is a "right", remember.

sorry, but you don't have to be necessarily glad about it:
in some of those countries, it makes up for the inability of local jurisdictions to do winter clean up (miss use of winter allocated funds, yada yada). also some of the winter tires sold over there may surprise you...

 

[SwampSurvivor]

If they stopped salting the roads and required me to run snow tires, I'd be super happy!

 

[edyvw]

Quote:
sorry, but you don't have to be necessarily glad about it:
in some of those countries, it makes up for the inability of local jurisdictions to do winter clean up (miss use of winter allocated funds, yada yada). also some of the winter tires sold over there may surprise you...

Trust me, over there streets are cleaned for morning commute, as well as side walks. Except in big cities in the U.S. I yet to see side walks being cleaned (granted no one walks on them). You have to take into consideration that in Bosnia 2 yrs ago they had 6ft of snow in two days, yet, no city had Lake Shore Drive emergency

Only road that was shut down and where people got stuck was this very difficult mountain pass.
Driving over there in winter is much easier then here precisely because there is organized effort to make driving much easier in winter, safer etc. It is part of the culture. Since you get driving license your father is telling you: winter tires, winter tires, winter tires, winter tires. Also, look at Switzerland, Germany etc? I remember driving 120+mph on autobahn during light snow, but boy, stop on parking lot, all cars are equipped with winter tires.
Also, to your point about funds. Yes, you have places where that happens. But, you think that is not case in Illinois? NJ? There is small city of Pueblo south of Colorado Springs, this morning no street was cleaned, all was packed snow? They have 8 trucks on 200,000 people, half broken, and that is in Colorado, not Alabama!!! Now are those budget cuts or misappropriation of funds, well I think all of above.

Edit:
Last night I am watching local news, and there is segment talking about car issues in cold. Yesterday here was 0 degrees with wind chill of -25. So they are talking about battery, coolant etc, and then in the end: "and, in the end, do not forget you tires." I mean, it like: battery will kill you not tires.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Quote:
sorry, but you don't have to be necessarily glad about it:
in some of those countries, it makes up for the inability of local jurisdictions to do winter clean up (miss use of winter allocated funds, yada yada). also some of the winter tires sold over there may surprise you...

Trust me, over there streets are cleaned for morning commute, as well as side walks. Except in big cities in the U.S. I yet to see side walks being cleaned (granted no one walks on them). You have to take into consideration that in Bosnia 2 yrs ago they had 6ft of snow in two days, yet, no city had Lake Shore Drive emergency

Only road that was shut down and where people got stuck was this very difficult mountain pass.
Driving over there in winter is much easier then here precisely because there is organized effort to make driving much easier in winter, safer etc. It is part of the culture. Since you get driving license your father is telling you: winter tires, winter tires, winter tires, winter tires. Also, look at Switzerland, Germany etc? I remember driving 120+mph on autobahn during light snow, but boy, stop on parking lot, all cars are equipped with winter tires.
Also, to your point about funds. Yes, you have places where that happens. But, you think that is not case in Illinois? NJ? There is small city of Pueblo south of Colorado Springs, this morning no street was cleaned, all was packed snow? They have 8 trucks on 200,000 people, half broken, and that is in Colorado, not Alabama!!! Now are those budget cuts or misappropriation of funds, well I think all of above.

Edit:
Last night I am watching local news, and there is segment talking about car issues in cold. Yesterday here was 0 degrees with wind chill of -25. So they are talking about battery, coolant etc, and then in the end: "and, in the end, do not forget you tires." I mean, it like: battery will kill you not tires.


I live in (what used to be) the snowiest city in the country. The last few winters ... they just don't clean up the snow. I live 100 feet from the Interstate and it's only 1/2 mile drive to the interstate to get to work and work just as close. So getting to/from work isn't that bad.

The last 10 or so "snow events" we have had, there were city streets that didn't get plowed for 5 or 6 days. And even then, I'm sure it was just a good Samaritan in a pickup that decided to plow a bit.

I live on the emergency bus route - which is reserved for snow/ice storms. Even at that, the last "snow event", it was 2 days before both lanes were plowed. On my way to get to work, 7AM, I was pushing snow nearly up to the bumper in the Focus and navigating around stuck vehicles.

Since I primarily drive the Focus in the winter (Jeep is equipped with good snow tires but don't want to rust it out diving on salty roads), I always carry a shovel with me. It has come in handy.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Since I primarily drive the Focus in the winter (Jeep is equipped with good snow tires but don't want to rust it out diving on salty roads), I always carry a shovel with me. It has come in handy.


Just out of curiosity, why do you equip the Jeep with snow tires if you don't drive it in the winter? Is it mostly just and off-road vehicle?

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: glock19
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Since I primarily drive the Focus in the winter (Jeep is equipped with good snow tires but don't want to rust it out diving on salty roads), I always carry a shovel with me. It has come in handy.


Just out of curiosity, why do you equip the Jeep with snow tires if you don't drive it in the winter? Is it mostly just and off-road vehicle?


He didn't say he didn't drive the Jeep at all in the Winter, he said he primariliy drives the Focus.

Probably like me, I own a 4x4 truck but primarily drive my Corolla in Winter because the truck is hard on gas for a long commute. If snow is maybe/iffy I still drive the Corolla, with a shovel, tarp and radial chains in the trunk (yes I've used the chains). If snow is falling or inevitable... I just stay home.

Maybe drive the 4x4 around my neighborhood after the big shovel-out, take the unprepared to the store or the old ladies to the Doc, that sort of thing.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: glock19
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Since I primarily drive the Focus in the winter (Jeep is equipped with good snow tires but don't want to rust it out diving on salty roads), I always carry a shovel with me. It has come in handy.


Just out of curiosity, why do you equip the Jeep with snow tires if you don't drive it in the winter? Is it mostly just and off-road vehicle?


It's an off road toy in the summer and general utility vehicle. I do occasionally have to tow or haul stuff (like couches ...) in the back. And I drive it every other week or so to keep things working - might get caught in the snow then.

Plus, if we get 2 or 3 feet of snow, it's a bit better with the unplowed roads. One of the snow storms last year we got ~2 feet overnight. I could have drove the focus but it would have been a lot of back and fourth.

Reminds me that I need to get another trickle charger for it. The parasitic draw kills batteries quickly.

 

[y_p_w]

I'm not sure how something like this can be handled in California. I'm guessing at least 98% of the population lives in areas where winter driving conditions just don't happen unless there's a 25 year event. However, some of the most popular winter recreation areas in the US are right in the Sierra Nevada, and the state would like to encourage people to visit those areas. It's kind of a stereotype that someone could be snowboarding in the morning and surfing in the afternoon.

I have seen the occasional car with winter tires in the Bay Area, but that is exceedingly rare. They'd probably get chewed up in the relatively warm winters on dry pavement.

I suppose it might be possible to mandate it like I've seen with winter washer fluid - by county. However, even those rules get convoluted to the point where they've gone so far as to divide certain counties by zip code. Some counties have a partial rural/mountainous nature along with population centers at lower elevations. El Dorado County starts in the Sacramento area with El Dorado Hills as the most populous community. Placerville is in the foothills and rarely gets snow. Then there's a big population center at South Lake Tahoe where I would get winter tires if I lived there. However, if you mandated that one must have winter tires, they'd lose a lot of tourism from people just not willing to spend more than just for a pair of chains.

However, South Lake Tahoe is so dependent on winter tourism that city/county/state plows run constantly during the winter. Frankly those receive so much traffic that snow and ice just don't stay there long. But if you live in a residential neighborhood, it might not get plowed that often.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
If they stopped salting the roads and required me to run snow tires, I'd be super happy!


No kidding! My Dak and Liz's Blazer have snows, we're good! (And if it's deep, the Blazer also had 4WD and 35" tires...)

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I'm not sure how something like this can be handled in California. I'm guessing at least 98% of the population lives in areas where winter driving conditions just don't happen unless there's a 25 year event. However, some of the most popular winter recreation areas in the US are right in the Sierra Nevada, and the state would like to encourage people to visit those areas. It's kind of a stereotype that someone could be snowboarding in the morning and surfing in the afternoon.
.


Here's a thought... how about making all season tires pass some sort of winter snow ice test...currently there is NONE! and be strict about it, and not letting the tire industry self-regulate...

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Here's a thought... how about making all season tires pass some sort of winter snow ice test...currently there is NONE! and be strict about it, and not letting the tire industry self-regulate...


2 thoughts:

First is that there already is a test that all season tires have to pass, but it is a tread pattern description test - the tread pattern has to meet certain criteria. The bar is pretty low, but it does relegate some tires to the summer category.

Second is that you're talking about government conducting the tests - and that costs money. Are you willing to increase your taxes to make that happen?

Ya' know, there are lots of folks who are trying to get the government to lower taxes and get out of regulating things. How about this? That the government conducts a FEW tests just to make sure that the tire manufacturers are complying. Less testing, less cost, but the threat of a recall would be enough to deter tire manufacturers from cheating.

 

[RGR]

Four wheel drive isn't four wheel stop. Half worn all seasons on a front driver will get most people where they need to go in normal snow if they don't apply to the American standard driving technique of "I want to go fast all the time and pay as little attention as possible to my driving".

The correct tires make a tremendous amount of difference in driving under adverse conditions, be they snow or at a racetrack. My preference for most driving is simple M&S all seasons. For a vehicle operating in a decidedly snowy environment, I think studded snows on a front wheel drive beats four wheel drive most of the time. On a Nissan Cube. As directly compared to a Hummer H3 on new all terrains. Used both in back to back winters and the wife just couldn't believe how the Cube felt as compared to an AWD he-man monster machine. If ground clearance were never an issue, the Cube so equipped was the snow weapon of choice.

At the end of the day, it really is mostly about the nut behind the wheel, any idiot can overdrive anything under any and all circumstances. And someone else can do far more with far less based on nothing but prudence and a little experience.

 

[weebl]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Dude...he's in Canada! I'm sure he knows snow!


This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but unfortunately, being from Canada doesn't guarantee knowing. A recent stat said only 45% of Alberta motorists use winter tires. http://globalnews.ca/news/1678714/majority-of-alberta-drivers-not-using-winter-tires-study

And around here, not counting the occasional warm spell, which actually just causes a lot of ice to form next time it freezes, the ice and snow typically remain on the road surfaces until the spring thaw.

Roads usually look like this the whole time:

Only exception are the major highways between cities and towns, which are usually well salted and sanded between snowfalls.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: RGR
Four wheel drive isn't four wheel stop. Half worn all seasons on a front driver will get most people where they need to go in normal snow if they don't apply to the American standard driving technique of "I want to go fast all the time and pay as little attention as possible to my driving".

The correct tires make a tremendous amount of difference in driving under adverse conditions, be they snow or at a racetrack. My preference for most driving is simple M&S all seasons. For a vehicle operating in a decidedly snowy environment, I think studded snows on a front wheel drive beats four wheel drive most of the time. On a Nissan Cube. As directly compared to a Hummer H3 on new all terrains. Used both in back to back winters and the wife just couldn't believe how the Cube felt as compared to an AWD he-man monster machine. If ground clearance were never an issue, the Cube so equipped was the snow weapon of choice.

At the end of the day, it really is mostly about the nut behind the wheel, any idiot can overdrive anything under any and all circumstances. And someone else can do far more with far less based on nothing but prudence and a little experience.

After being stuck on I-70 because of an idiots on All-Seasons during blizzard I can only say that I have tremendous disrespect for drivers who think that on 11,500ft pass they do not need winter tire during blizzard because "they are careful."