Generators-Seeking hard solid insider info

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Originally Posted By: AandPDan
Originally Posted By: tig1
This my gen. 5KW Powermate with the Subaru engine. I know nothing about dirty or clean power, but I do run my flat screen TV, and computer from it with no problems to date. This pic is from my most recent power test. When in use I just back feed through my welder outlet.


I know you don't want to hear this but do it right, and legally, and get an interlock or transfer switch. One mistake and someone can get killed.


I am fully aware that back feeding needs to be done correctly. It's all about the main breaker. However one mistake while driving a car can get someone killed as well. Many things in life are like that. But thanks for the concern and advise.
 
I'm a journeyman carpenter that's made my living from gas powered air compressors and generators all my life.
In my experience Honda is the best money can buy,and they certainly cost a lot of money. I've got a couple hondas. The rest are all Chinese knock offs.
We use them daily. I've got anywhere from none to 8 running daily depending on power availability onsite.
I've still got the first Honda generator I ever bought,14 or 15 years ago. My men unplugged the low oil shut off about 8 years ago and after running with no oil it siezed up.
All I had with me was tranny fluid so I filked it with a quart of that,took the rip cord off and put a 3' pipe wrench to the crank,breaking the rotating assembly free.
We ran it for a few minutes withtranny fluid in it while I went for oil.
That generator is still onsite,still running,burns a bit of oil now though. I gotta change the plug yearly.
So the Chinese ones are 6500 watts,start first pull and in the years I've owned them I've not yet had a failure that wasn't an employee's fault.
So consider the options. Yeah a cheapi Chanda will work. We get many,many years of use running them daily,and I'd trust any of them in an emergency.
But I truly feel Honda is the best available. All my air compressors use a Honda GX engine. They are either 5.5hp or 6.5hp.
I've got 2 compressors with astronomical hours on them. I figured out the oldest has 15000 hours,and the second oldest around 12000 hours,and they have never been opened up for anything. Not carb adjustments,nothing. Still the original gaskets.
I use tc-w3 in the fuel and mos2 every second oil change,and change the oil every 100 hours.
Consider that generators suffer from serious fuel dilution at start up and that fuel needs most of the day to evaporate out of the crankcase,so just condider if it's going to run only a few hours at a time you are going to get an accumulation of fuel quickly which will necessitate shorter intervals.
If running all day that fuel gets evaporated.
 
Clevy,
You may very well have more time with OPE(generators and gas compressors)than anyone else here at BITOG. Thanks for your telling us your experience, which gives all of us encouragement in the way we use our equipment.
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
I'm a journeyman carpenter that's made my living from gas powered air compressors and generators all my life.
In my experience Honda is the best money can buy,and they certainly cost a lot of money. I've got a couple hondas. The rest are all Chinese knock offs.
We use them daily. I've got anywhere from none to 8 running daily depending on power availability onsite.
I've still got the first Honda generator I ever bought,14 or 15 years ago. My men unplugged the low oil shut off about 8 years ago and after running with no oil it siezed up.
All I had with me was tranny fluid so I filked it with a quart of that,took the rip cord off and put a 3' pipe wrench to the crank,breaking the rotating assembly free.
We ran it for a few minutes withtranny fluid in it while I went for oil.
That generator is still onsite,still running,burns a bit of oil now though. I gotta change the plug yearly.
So the Chinese ones are 6500 watts,start first pull and in the years I've owned them I've not yet had a failure that wasn't an employee's fault.
So consider the options. Yeah a cheapi Chanda will work. We get many,many years of use running them daily,and I'd trust any of them in an emergency.
But I truly feel Honda is the best available. All my air compressors use a Honda GX engine. They are either 5.5hp or 6.5hp.
I've got 2 compressors with astronomical hours on them. I figured out the oldest has 15000 hours,and the second oldest around 12000 hours,and they have never been opened up for anything. Not carb adjustments,nothing. Still the original gaskets.
I use tc-w3 in the fuel and mos2 every second oil change,and change the oil every 100 hours.
Consider that generators suffer from serious fuel dilution at start up and that fuel needs most of the day to evaporate out of the crankcase,so just condider if it's going to run only a few hours at a time you are going to get an accumulation of fuel quickly which will necessitate shorter intervals.
If running all day that fuel gets evaporated.


What ratio of TCW3 do you use in your OPE's.
 
Start with the best, then decide how far down the price/quality scale you want to go.

The new Honda EU7000i is fuel injected and quieter than even their little EU2000i.
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is

Then decide what size you need (figure that the highest load you put on it should be no more than 80% of the rated output). Decide how much noise you'll accept. Electric start? (Gott'a keep a trickle charger on the battery and expect the battery to eventually fail from old age.) How clean do you want the exhaust to be? Decide what level of reliability you want. You get pretty much what you pay for. Do buy from a shop that will service it. Some of the off brands or store brands may not ever have parts for it.
 
All it takes is one tiny, sometimes inaccessible electrical component to render any portable gen totally useless at the time you need it, so IMO, for something you're rarely, if ever going to use, I can't see spending huge bucks on it.

My experience with name brands and/or warranties is, not many shops have the resources to troubleshoot a problem with the generator end. Best they'll do is try to mail-order you replacement parts and MAYBE try swap parts 'till it works again. You can do the same thing from your keyboard and internet connection, and probably faster.

I too am of the get as small as your infrastructure can tolerate school. No fuel source is unlimited and may run low and be unavailable when you need it.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: AandPDan
Originally Posted By: tig1
This my gen. 5KW Powermate with the Subaru engine. I know nothing about dirty or clean power, but I do run my flat screen TV, and computer from it with no problems to date. This pic is from my most recent power test. When in use I just back feed through my welder outlet.


I know you don't want to hear this but do it right, and legally, and get an interlock or transfer switch. One mistake and someone can get killed.


I am fully aware that back feeding needs to be done correctly. It's all about the main breaker. However one mistake while driving a car can get someone killed as well. Many things in life are like that. But thanks for the concern and advise.


Back feeding is illegal. I would not want to be involved when someone got killed and it was because of back feeding.

Given a Reliance 6 circuit transfer is about $250 (+ install) I see no reason to back feed.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: AandPDan
Originally Posted By: tig1
This my gen. 5KW Powermate with the Subaru engine. I know nothing about dirty or clean power, but I do run my flat screen TV, and computer from it with no problems to date. This pic is from my most recent power test. When in use I just back feed through my welder outlet.


I know you don't want to hear this but do it right, and legally, and get an interlock or transfer switch. One mistake and someone can get killed.


I am fully aware that back feeding needs to be done correctly. It's all about the main breaker. However one mistake while driving a car can get someone killed as well. Many things in life are like that. But thanks for the concern and advise.


Back feeding is illegal. I would not want to be involved when someone got killed and it was because of back feeding.

Given a Reliance 6 circuit transfer is about $250 (+ install) I see no reason to back feed.


Plus it is easy to install any worry free afterwards. I did it and it works great with my portable generator to power the whole house and keeps the linemen from getting electrocuted due to a gerry rigged connection.

Whimsey
 
Interesting point about not being able to find service for a Honda powered genset, on one that's not completely made by Honda.

I've never found that to be a problem locally, but in some locations, I could see how that "could" be an issue, with regard ONLY to warranty.

When the warranty is up, there is never an issue having a local shop "fix it".

So, a possible question could be: Does the Northstar $600 savings, and 4 year warranty, offset the potential of "local warranty repair" and the Honda's 3 year warranty? (just an FYI, for $600, you can purchase an entire, brand new Honda 390 engine)
 
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fuel for standby power is a pain.

non-inverter gensets burn so much of it that you have to really budget your use, store up a bunch of it, and rotate the stores. Even then, it's never enough to reasonably store. A 5-day outage on a 5kw that may need 7 gallons / 12 hrs (just a WAG) needs 20 gallons over 5 days, running 6 hrs per day. That's good for the 'fridge. but not for a furnace. or any good for folks that want the TV on or whatever throughout the day. If you want to run the furnace, say 12 hours per day runtime, and you're in the 35-40 gallon range, more if you add any moderate loads like incandescent lighting, small appliances.

Or you can go LP. Tanked is much easier to store, but you'll burn more gallons than unleaded. Ideal is a silver submarine--- typical exchange tanks not practical- Utility gas seems the way to go, as long as you can count on it to be there.

The inverter units use half the fuel or less, but are limited. They cost, and none in a reasonable price range provide 220, which means you get smaller appliances only - no 220V blowers, no oven.

The only practical way I could swing it *for our needs* was a smaller inverter. And in the limited outage use it's seen (no more than 5 days) I'm glad we did it that way. It could run a couple of fridges, a bunch of CFLs. with xfer switch (installed) it ran ceiling fans all night so people could sleep. Fuel burn didn't matter much for intermittent vs fulltime use (the fridges would cycle when run fulltime, when run on a schedule the fridges just ran the pumps the whole time), barring the overnight use which cost 1 gallon to get from 10p to 6a with 3 ceiling fans and 2 small floor fans. (eu2000). We later sold the eu2k and bought a yama 3k which has never seen a prolonged outage but powers a small trailer and odd jobs.

I store 20 gallons of fuel with stabil and rotate it yearly or more often. It takes a long time to pour a 5 gallon epa-rated gas can into a car without spilling it. I couldn't stomach storing any more....

While I can't run the whole house, I can run everything we need, or a space heater and a couple of items, fridge, and still have some power to share for a neighbor if they need. And used smartly, I can last a few days without having to drive 2 hours to find gas (been there...).

M
 
I see Northern Tool sells a cheap consumer grade generator with all-copper windings (someone posted a link here a while back). That to me is impressive and would steer me to it.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Winco makes excellent generators. I have 2 both LP gas.

Have you figured your total load including starting load. Don't depend up on the "peak" to handle the starting load. Build that into the base load calculation. But you can start things with motors one at a time.

What is your goal? Hurricane? Winter ice storm? Power grid failure? You need to plan for fuel as part of the generator plan.

You can buy gas ahead of time for a hurricane, when its over you use up the leftover in your car. But you cannot plan for a power grid failure.

While I think LP gas is the best you need tanks. Rent or buy. Natural gas sounds great until there is a fire or something and they cut off the natural gas. In Katrina there was a huge place with a warehouse full of frozen food/meat and they had natural gas generators. But the gas company shut off the natural gas due to nearby fires and they lost everything

I've got a 25 year old DYNA whch is a looking WINCO "consruction grade" unit with a Briggs L head. Not slick looking but built like a tank. Got it on a closeout at a very good price.
 
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Originally Posted By: meep
fuel for standby power is a pain.

non-inverter gensets burn so much of it that you have to really budget your use, store up a bunch of it, and rotate the stores. Even then, it's never enough to reasonably store. A 5-day outage on a 5kw that may need 7 gallons / 12 hrs (just a WAG) needs 20 gallons over 5 days, running 6 hrs per day. That's good for the 'fridge. but not for a furnace. or any good for folks that want the TV on or whatever throughout the day. If you want to run the furnace, say 12 hours per day runtime, and you're in the 35-40 gallon range, more if you add any moderate loads like incandescent lighting, small appliances.

Or you can go LP. Tanked is much easier to store, but you'll burn more gallons than unleaded. Ideal is a silver submarine--- typical exchange tanks not practical- Utility gas seems the way to go, as long as you can count on it to be there.

The inverter units use half the fuel or less, but are limited. They cost, and none in a reasonable price range provide 220, which means you get smaller appliances only - no 220V blowers, no oven.

The only practical way I could swing it *for our needs* was a smaller inverter. And in the limited outage use it's seen (no more than 5 days) I'm glad we did it that way. It could run a couple of fridges, a bunch of CFLs. with xfer switch (installed) it ran ceiling fans all night so people could sleep. Fuel burn didn't matter much for intermittent vs fulltime use (the fridges would cycle when run fulltime, when run on a schedule the fridges just ran the pumps the whole time), barring the overnight use which cost 1 gallon to get from 10p to 6a with 3 ceiling fans and 2 small floor fans. (eu2000). We later sold the eu2k and bought a yama 3k which has never seen a prolonged outage but powers a small trailer and odd jobs.

I store 20 gallons of fuel with stabil and rotate it yearly or more often. It takes a long time to pour a 5 gallon epa-rated gas can into a car without spilling it. I couldn't stomach storing any more....

While I can't run the whole house, I can run everything we need, or a space heater and a couple of items, fridge, and still have some power to share for a neighbor if they need. And used smartly, I can last a few days without having to drive 2 hours to find gas (been there...).

M


Sounds like its good for your needs. The killer load for many including myself is a 220V water pump. High starting current. You can avoid using it for awhile but at some point you need water.
 
I have a Troy Bilt 8550/5550 portable generator that was professionally hard wired into my breaker box about 8 years ago after being without power from an ice storm for 5 days. I used it in February of this year after an ice storm came through and knocked out power for 3 days. It is somewhat of a chore to keep gas on hand and to fill the tank but it is way ahead of being without power for days on end. It ran the natural gas furnace fan, lights, TV, fridge, freezer, garage door opener etc for the 3 days the power was out and didn't miss a beat. I don't know how 'clean' the power is but nothing I ran has had any problems. I have just over $1,100 in the generator and electricians parts and labor...money well spent.
 
Note: My 2HP, 3 stage, high pressure (95 PSI) Goulds shallow well pump will start properly with my 11HP Subaru Generator. As long as I don't have other significant loads on the generator.

Instantaneous starting current when "on grid" works out to be about 9000 watts. However, the little 5000W generator shows no sign of struggling to start the pump. And the pump motor spools right up, as always.

I have a small pressure tank, so my pump cycles frequently.
 
Inverter generators of all sizes "can" save fuel. However, at higher loads, they ARE NOT more efficient.

If you are heating water, running an air conditioner in the summer, running heaters in the winter or other high power consumers regularly, don't expect an inverter generator to consume less fuel running these loads.

They only consume less fuel under no and low load conditions. If you run "off grid" and have long periods of time with low load, an inverter unit will save you some fuel. Might take 30 years to recover the additional generator costs in fuel savings though.
 
Thank you all for a worthwhile dialog. I have a 5KW Coleman Powermate It is a Tecumseh HM 100 10 hoss flathead purchased back in '79. Low hours. I had a heck of a time, keeping it going during a 4 day outage last use. It has a Maxa power head. It is a low budget job site rig with the Tec's stock 1 gallon tank. To solve that, I devised a way to use the Jeep du jour's gas. The power head looks to be separable from the engine. if I take it apart. Can anybody school me on the Maxa power head? I was running the tv and the internet with it. It will run the essential stuff. Heck it would handle the oven or the dryer selectively.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Note: My 2HP, 3 stage, high pressure (95 PSI) Goulds shallow well pump will start properly with my 11HP Subaru Generator. As long as I don't have other significant loads on the generator.

Instantaneous starting current when "on grid" works out to be about 9000 watts. However, the little 5000W generator shows no sign of struggling to start the pump. And the pump motor spools right up, as always.

I have a small pressure tank, so my pump cycles frequently.


I am not sure what kind of motor is in a shallow well pump. On a submersible its a capacitor start motor. With 2 wires to the pump the capacitor is in the pump, with 3 its in the control box above ground.

I went from a 1/2 to a 3/4 HP when I replaced my well pump several years ago and it was tough on my Coleman 5000 W generator.

2 HP sounds like a large pump.
 
I bought a Subaru-Robin 4300W inverter unit, based in part on reputation, and in part on research.

I wanted an inverter for the quietness, and for the part-throttle fuel usage, as I don't intend to load it up. I live in a quiet neighbourhood and having a loud generator running all night would not be appreciated.

I also liked the Subaru-Robin for it's serviceability. It requires no special jigs or tools and uses a cast-iron cylinder liner and a timing chain instead of a belt. EX27

It was also quite a bit less money than the equivalent Honda and was available locally.
 
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