I've always wondered if Les Schwab would stand behind the tire if something started developing due to those sipes (like tread chunking or similar). Aftermarket siping pretty much nullifies manufacturer warranties on a tire (including treadwear).
Tires siped?
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I've always wondered if Les Schwab would stand behind the tire if something started developing due to those sipes (like tread chunking or similar). Aftermarket siping pretty much nullifies manufacturer warranties on a tire (including treadwear).
Does les schwab sell their own form of warranty?
Many tire shops do and if so perhaps that's a route to take,especially on new tires.
Though I've gotta wonder why buy tires and sipe them when you can buy them that way already,and they are designed and engineered with that feature which I have to assume would mean a better finished product.
Just spitballing.
I've always wondered if Les Schwab would stand behind the tire if something started developing due to those sipes (like tread chunking or similar). Aftermarket siping pretty much nullifies manufacturer warranties on a tire (including treadwear).
Does les schwab sell their own form of warranty?
Many tire shops do and if so perhaps that's a route to take,especially on new tires.
Though I've gotta wonder why buy tires and sipe them when you can buy them that way already,and they are designed and engineered with that feature which I have to assume would mean a better finished product.
Just spitballing.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I've always wondered if Les Schwab would stand behind the tire if something started developing due to those sipes (like tread chunking or similar). Aftermarket siping pretty much nullifies manufacturer warranties on a tire (including treadwear).
Does les schwab sell their own form of warranty?
Many tire shops do and if so perhaps that's a route to take,especially on new tires.
Though I've gotta wonder why buy tires and sipe them when you can buy them that way already,and they are designed and engineered with that feature which I have to assume would mean a better finished product.
Just spitballing.
I noted that 3D self-locking sipes are the norm these days. It would be a neat trick if you could do that with a utility knife or even an aftermarket sipe cutting machine.
http://www.nokiantires.com/innovation/innovations/self-locking-3d-sipes/
https://www.behance.net/gallery/4620019/Michelin-3D-Sipes
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I've always wondered if Les Schwab would stand behind the tire if something started developing due to those sipes (like tread chunking or similar). Aftermarket siping pretty much nullifies manufacturer warranties on a tire (including treadwear).
Does les schwab sell their own form of warranty?
Many tire shops do and if so perhaps that's a route to take,especially on new tires.
Though I've gotta wonder why buy tires and sipe them when you can buy them that way already,and they are designed and engineered with that feature which I have to assume would mean a better finished product.
Just spitballing.
I noted that 3D self-locking sipes are the norm these days. It would be a neat trick if you could do that with a utility knife or even an aftermarket sipe cutting machine.
http://www.nokiantires.com/innovation/innovations/self-locking-3d-sipes/
https://www.behance.net/gallery/4620019/Michelin-3D-Sipes
I've siped half worn snow tires by hand and it helped quite abit. Some chunking on the fronts from tire spin, but didn't seem to matter at all.
I'd never take a nearly new tire and sipe it, but it makes sense for half worn tires to get another winter or two out of them if they haven't hardened up too much.
I'd never take a nearly new tire and sipe it, but it makes sense for half worn tires to get another winter or two out of them if they haven't hardened up too much.
Les Schwab warrants the tires themselves (in most cases) and the warranty is part of the price. It is a good warranty (in most cases).*
http://lesschwab.com/tires/warranty-info
http://lesschwab.com/tires/performance-siping
They really push the siping. Even the passenger car all-season tires with decent factory siping gets the sales push. I won't buy tires from Les Schwab (price doesn't meet quality, in my opinion), but if I did, I wouldn't get the tires siped unless there is a particular need, such as blocky mud tread or trailer tires.
I've had half-worn tires siped. Did some good on wet roads, but not a huge benefit. When I had a travel trailer I'd get those tires siped. Few if any trailer tires with factory siping available, and I think the siping improved the wet road braking.
*A buddy had some mid-quality tires on his pickup that he bought from Les Schwab. In the middle of the Nevada nowhere one came apart. Took off part of the fender, broke a brake line loose. He changed the tire, hammered the brake line closed with two rocks, and limped into the next little town to buy a set of new tires, 'cuz he didn't trust the remaining tires. He took the bad tire back to Schwab for the warranty to fix his truck. Schwab made him send the tire to the maker, Goodyear, and wait for them to approve payment. He was rightfully steamed. Goodyear finally did pay, but we felt that was a poor way for Schwab to do business.
http://lesschwab.com/tires/warranty-info
http://lesschwab.com/tires/performance-siping
They really push the siping. Even the passenger car all-season tires with decent factory siping gets the sales push. I won't buy tires from Les Schwab (price doesn't meet quality, in my opinion), but if I did, I wouldn't get the tires siped unless there is a particular need, such as blocky mud tread or trailer tires.
I've had half-worn tires siped. Did some good on wet roads, but not a huge benefit. When I had a travel trailer I'd get those tires siped. Few if any trailer tires with factory siping available, and I think the siping improved the wet road braking.
*A buddy had some mid-quality tires on his pickup that he bought from Les Schwab. In the middle of the Nevada nowhere one came apart. Took off part of the fender, broke a brake line loose. He changed the tire, hammered the brake line closed with two rocks, and limped into the next little town to buy a set of new tires, 'cuz he didn't trust the remaining tires. He took the bad tire back to Schwab for the warranty to fix his truck. Schwab made him send the tire to the maker, Goodyear, and wait for them to approve payment. He was rightfully steamed. Goodyear finally did pay, but we felt that was a poor way for Schwab to do business.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
I've had it done on passenger and M/T tires and it works very well. They do not cut deep, and in no way does it harm you're tire. the naysayer arm chair expert tire guys with zero experience here really shouldn't comment.
Being an actual non-armchair expert, I guess I'll comment.
Does it work? Yup. Cutting new sipes will give a tire some more snow grip. Absolutely. It comes at the cost of increasing tread squirm, tread wear and chunking, because the sipes let the tread block flex in ways it was not designed for. The thought of it pretty much makes tire engineers shriek like little girls. As others have noted, siping technology has already gone way beyond simple cuts and into having a complex 3D topology inside the cuts that let the engineers determine exactly how much flex to allow, which decreases the squirm and drang of it all.
So I won't deny that it works, but there are tradeoffs. It will absolutely void any manufacturer's warranty, and I note that Schwab's warranty says nothing at all about siping.
Schwab's site also states that siping increases treadlife because the sipes reduce heat generation, which is IMHO, [censored] because a) heat generation is not generally a problem in the snow and b) that's not enough to overcome increased wear caused by squirm.
So I personally wouldn't do it, nor would I recommend it. You're better off with siping that has been designed into the tire. On the other hand it probably won't kill you, and it does work in a sense.
I've had it done on passenger and M/T tires and it works very well. They do not cut deep, and in no way does it harm you're tire. the naysayer arm chair expert tire guys with zero experience here really shouldn't comment.
Being an actual non-armchair expert, I guess I'll comment.
Does it work? Yup. Cutting new sipes will give a tire some more snow grip. Absolutely. It comes at the cost of increasing tread squirm, tread wear and chunking, because the sipes let the tread block flex in ways it was not designed for. The thought of it pretty much makes tire engineers shriek like little girls. As others have noted, siping technology has already gone way beyond simple cuts and into having a complex 3D topology inside the cuts that let the engineers determine exactly how much flex to allow, which decreases the squirm and drang of it all.
So I won't deny that it works, but there are tradeoffs. It will absolutely void any manufacturer's warranty, and I note that Schwab's warranty says nothing at all about siping.
Schwab's site also states that siping increases treadlife because the sipes reduce heat generation, which is IMHO, [censored] because a) heat generation is not generally a problem in the snow and b) that's not enough to overcome increased wear caused by squirm.
So I personally wouldn't do it, nor would I recommend it. You're better off with siping that has been designed into the tire. On the other hand it probably won't kill you, and it does work in a sense.
Allow me to confirm pretty much everything AboutTires said:
1) Aftermarket siping voids every tire manufacturer's warranty. The only exception would be those things that would not be related to the actual siping process - and I am struggling to find something that might not be traceable to that process.
2) Adding siping improves wet traction, snow traction, but increases noise, chunk outs, dry traction, wear, fuel economy, durability, and has no effect on ride.
3) Much advertising info about siping is mis-leading. For example, less heat generation - no - MORE heat is generated, but it could be dissipating quicker, making the tire run cooler. So the fuel economy would be INCREASED, and the amount of stress is increased, but that is being disguised.
On the whole, I can see doing this to a half worn tire you are trying to get another winter out of - or an off road tire that you are trying to get better mud traction, but a new all season tire? No, thank you.
1) Aftermarket siping voids every tire manufacturer's warranty. The only exception would be those things that would not be related to the actual siping process - and I am struggling to find something that might not be traceable to that process.
2) Adding siping improves wet traction, snow traction, but increases noise, chunk outs, dry traction, wear, fuel economy, durability, and has no effect on ride.
3) Much advertising info about siping is mis-leading. For example, less heat generation - no - MORE heat is generated, but it could be dissipating quicker, making the tire run cooler. So the fuel economy would be INCREASED, and the amount of stress is increased, but that is being disguised.
On the whole, I can see doing this to a half worn tire you are trying to get another winter out of - or an off road tire that you are trying to get better mud traction, but a new all season tire? No, thank you.
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